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Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

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Doc

Post subject: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:31 am

Top Poster

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 8600

Have to be rated and current on B737NG. Not much of a risk there. Out shopping for Europeans, and making a typical token effort to "look for" qualified Canadian pilots, to "prove" they can't "find" any. Can't see a Hell of a lot of WestJet drivers jumping ship for seasonal contract work with these guys? Still trying not to make a "commitment" to the industry within the country by actually training otherwise qualified local pilots?

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Diadem

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:16 am

Rank 4

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:16 am
Posts: 207
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Nobody who flies for WestJet is going to go work for them, but everyone in Canada with a 737NG type rating should apply and make it a little more difficult for them to demonstrate that there aren't any qualified pilots in Canada. Sending in a resume can't hurt - no one need go any further in the application process than that - and if Sunwing is flooded with qualified candidates they'll either have to admit there are no grounds for importing pilots, or they'll lie and say no one with a type rating applied. It would be pretty easy to prove they were lying, so either way it would make it much more difficult for them to bring in any foreign pilots.

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Tanker299

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:13 am

Rank 2

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:16 pm
Posts: 59

If the pilots that have said type rating are employed and won't jump ship that won't help much, no shortage of qualified people but still a shortage of people to fly their stuff. Not many out there with an NG that are ready able and willing to work for them.

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ZBBYLW

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:46 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 330

Tanker299 wrote:

f the pilots that have said type rating are employed and won't jump ship that won't help much, no shortage of qualified people but still a shortage of people to fly their stuff. Not many out there with an NG that are ready able and willing to work for them.

Air Canada, Air Transat, Jazz, Westjet, Kelowna Flight Craft, Cargo Jet, First Air, Canadian North etc... All do not require you to have 500 on their aircraft type with a current type rating. They will train you after they hire you.

Air Canada, Air Transat and Westjet (lets ignore the 757 issue for a bit) all need to find ways to compete with Sunwing and Canjet in the vacation market when many costs that TC force on the first 3 (Type Ratings etc..) are not paid by Sunwing or Canjet for all their pilots.

Lets say you work for AC, WS or AT (or have the intent to work for them) and you have a decent benefits plan that may include good medical benefits to the point along with your salary and maybe even a pension (or ESP) that you can comfortably support your family throughout your carrier. Well you would want your company to be able to compete with the competition would you not?

Right now Sunwing and Canjet are hiring foreign workers because it's cheaper to use them. What is wrong with that? Well it's actually illegal based on current law it's just not being informed. I don't know about you but I'd rather have the rules followed to the dot and protect the interests of airlines that employe Canadian crew. If Sunwing and Canjet were on a level playing field with the likes of AC, AT or WS i'd just be as happy to see them succeed.

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Doc

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:23 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 8600

I'm sure there are lots of guys right here in Canada, who would go get a 737NG type for a employment guarantee of 3-5 years from Sunwing? Of course, after year one, some would probably jump ship to WestJet, etc., but them's the breaks.
Sunwing has flown me south on my last four winter vacations. The crews have always been polite, efficient and for the most part, at least in the front end, European. I don't think we need to do this? How long's an NG course? Couple of weeks of GS, and a week of SIM? C'MON Sunwing.....get off your wallet!
Sign me up.

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ZBBYLW

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:40 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 330

DOC wrote:

Sunwing has flown me south on my last four winter vacations. The crews have always been polite, efficient and for the most part, at least in the front end, European.

DOC wrote:

C'MON Sunwing.....get off your wallet!

Why continue to give them your business if you care for the matter? The almighty dollar?

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termerair

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:09 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 158
Location: In my shoes

Quote:

I'm sure there are lots of guys right here in Canada, who would go get a 737NG type for a employment guarantee of 3-5 years from Sunwing

FYI, it is impossible to get a type rating in Canada if you are not employed by an airline...

T.

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cdnpilot77

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:28 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:24 am
Posts: 1391

ZBBYLW wrote:

DOC wrote:

Sunwing has flown me south on my last four winter vacations. The crews have always been polite, efficient and for the most part, at least in the front end, European.

DOC wrote:

C'MON Sunwing.....get off your wallet!

Why continue to give them your business if you care for the matter? The almighty dollar?

Some of us have limited options but still want to take a vacation with the family.

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FICU

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:11 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 575

cdnpilot77 wrote:

Some of us have limited options but still want to take a vacation with the family.

... with foreign pilots who fail to qualify for a Canadian PPC? In this case I will pay more to know there is a Canadian crew in the front and not a foreign failure.

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Rowdy

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Rank 11

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:26 pm
Posts: 4040
Location: On Borrowed Wings

why doesnt someone who is currently on EI, go and ask the gov, for a 737 NG type rating! Boom! 'Hey look, heres an airline job for me if I have this rating, otherwise I'm gonna continue to sit on EI and some foreigner is gonna take this job'.

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termerair

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:08 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 158
Location: In my shoes

Rowdy wrote:

Don't worry, it's been taken care of...! As of today the government has in its hands a request for 30 x 737NG type ratings!

But it's not that simple. As I mentioned earlier, it is impossible for a Canadian pilot to get a type rating on his/her own if he/she is not employed by a company... But there are solutions though...

T.

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xsbank

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:54 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 5051
Location: ex-West Coast

Not impossible at all, just expensive. Anybody can buy a type rating - where do you get the information that its impossible?

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BE20 Driver

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:36 am

Rank 4

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:58 pm
Posts: 203

termerair wrote:

Quote:

I'm sure there are lots of guys right here in Canada, who would go get a 737NG type for a employment guarantee of 3-5 years from Sunwing

FYI, it is impossible to get a type rating in Canada if you are not employed by an airline...

T.

They can be had through several American companies for as little as $7000. Once the course is complete, they can be put onto a Canadian licence. I have checked into it.

I have just been PFO'd by Sunwing. Can't get an interview despite having more than the minimum requirements. The only thing I don't have is the 737 time. I pitched the rating to the government back in September when I took my seasonal lay off. They're still trying to make up their mind and it's already mid-November. Likely by the time they decide, I'll be back at my summer job.

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Colonel Sanders

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:04 am

Rank 11

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 3951
Location: Over Macho Grande

Quote:

it is impossible for a Canadian pilot to get a type rating on his/her own if he/she is not employed by a company

You seem to erroneously equate a type rating with a PPC.

Your implication is that all aircraft in Canada that require
a type rating, are operated only by OC holders.

That is false.

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termerair

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:42 am

Rank 3

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 158
Location: In my shoes

Quote:

Not impossible at all, just expensive. Anybody can buy a type rating - where do you get the information that its impossible?

Sorry but in Canada, it is impossible for now! This comes directly from the mouth of the CAE Center leader in YUL. We met with him a couple of weeks ago and he explained it to us very clearly... You can not buy a type rating on your own in Canada as the training program has to be approved by TC. And for now only airlines have had their training programs checked and certified by TC...

2 solutions...

1/ Head south to Dallas and get the rating there... This gives you a FAA TR that you can transfer onto your Canadian Licence...

2/ Or get the the 737 simulator in YUL certified as per the FAA requirements... Get the rating... This remains a FAA TR that you need to transfer onto your Canadian licence...

Why should we have to go see the Americans to get a 737 rating while we fight to keep our jobs in Canada...?

T.

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xsbank

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:20 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 5051
Location: ex-West Coast

Same thing if you wanted a G650 type, you'd go to Wilmington (or wherever). Canada doesn't have all the sims you might want. I'd be surprised if CAE even had an NG sim as they probably belong to Westjet but I digress. Nothing except TSA stopping you from going to Dallas to get one - if you're new to the world of TSA allow a couple of extra weeks to get fingerprinted and approved. Just make sure you visit Bone Daddy's or Redneck Heaven while you are there to get the full Texas experience! $30 to get them to print a cute sticky for your license.

Couple of other problems - Sunwing probably want time on type as they will likely not have more than a rudimentary in-house training program being seasonal; if they want you to be typed they probably want you for such a short period of time they will not pay for recurrent. Have a look at what you will be paid as a contractor and then look at what a rec. will cost you. Sounds to me like a typical Mickey mouse fly-by-night Canadian take-the-money-and-run, go bankrupt and leave 'em in Cancun operator. Do you really want that? Unless you just want the time to go to Asia.

It seems they have figured out how to scam the system and screw Westjet and the rest by using cheap foreign pilots. I'd have nothing to do with them and I think TC needs to get off their fat ass (there's probably only one inspector left) and shut them down, or refuse to endorse their pilot's licenses. Don't fly with them boys and girls!

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Doc

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:10 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 8600

Talked to an operator in Texas. Full course is $7200. That's for the 200/classic (wonder why everybody refers to outdated equipment as "classic"?). The NG conversion runs about $3500 on top of that. The whole thing takes 11-14 days, and you use the same instructor throughout. They will include an FAA ride if required to Type you on an American ATPL. In the case of a Canadian you have to be fingerprinted and pass a security screening. He assured me it's pretty basic. They supply you with all training records and tell me Transport Canada will type your licence upon completion of the course. Obviously, this would not include a PPC on type. That, you would have to get form an air carrier. We all knew that, right? I did. Frankly, when you look at what you get for just over $10,500, vs. what you get when you plunk 10K down for a "security" bond with several (too many to mention by name) of our local Canadian slave driving operators, I have to wonder why everybody isn't doing it. Way more bang for your daddy's money. Of course, you have to have the time/requirements to hold an ATPL.

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teh_flyguy

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:15 am

Rank 1

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:54 am
Posts: 37
Location: YYC...OIL BABY!!!

Sunwing hired our garbage. One guy fired not once, not twice but thrice. His daddy is an AC captain, even he couldn't get him a job. Next guy, fired twice as well. Third guy had a job with internal reference to another Canadian NG operator but lied about having his "A"s and got blackballed while sewering his references. So rest assured, if Sunwing calls back you are the "pick of the litter", only because they haven't found any foreigners to fill the seats.

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Krashman

Post subject: Re: Sunwing Seasonal Pilots

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:01 am

Rank 6

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:32 pm
Posts: 486
Location: Canuck in the fragrant harbor

Just look at the US aviation industry.... what a mess,

Thats where us Canadians are heading, paying for type ratings and and begging for jobs just to hurry up and jump ship to Westjet or AC mainline.

The problem is what can really be done?

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