Career advancement or pay cheque?

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DHeight
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Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by DHeight » Tue May 08, 2012 10:03 pm

Hey guys, recently I have been offered a job at a company that will remain nameless. This company is known for advancing your careers to the majors within a few years. Seems like the most senior crew members are hovering around 4 years. If I take the job I would be leaving a job that pays enough to remain comfortable, but living in a city that is absolutely horrendous and gheto. Let's say there isn't much of a lifestyle involved where I live currently.

Weighing my options.

Take the new job, take a pay cut, move to a city where I can have somewhat of a lifestyle (with consideration due to pay cut), get 705 time, upgrade in approximately 2 years, do my time at this company and look forward to career advancement to the majors or a corporate gig.

Stay at current job, dislike where I live, get paid good, upgrade in 3 to 4 years on a turbine below 12.5, taste really good money in the left seat, and not experience career advancement due to not wanting to take a massive pay cut (which is exactly what our senior pilot's are experiencing, preventing them to apply to any of the airlines).

I don't expect anybody to answer this for me, but give me some food for thought.

I appreciate all the advice.
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CRJ-705
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by CRJ-705 » Wed May 09, 2012 8:53 pm

personally i would take the new job.

and even you said it yourself, you dislike where you live at your current job
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Diadem
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by Diadem » Wed May 09, 2012 10:51 pm

And if you'll upgrade a year or two faster at the new job you'll probably make up the difference in salary, not to mention making more in the long run by being in a better position in your career to move to bigger and better things.
The most important thing is lifestyle and being happy where you are. It doesn't sound like you're very pleased with your current situation, so take the pay cut if it'll make you happy.
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fanspeed
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by fanspeed » Thu May 10, 2012 5:28 am

Do what makes you happy, and stop asking an anonymous crowd what they think. Now, I have a question about a rash...
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cj555
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by cj555 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

CRJ-705 wrote:personally i would take the new job.

and even you said it yourself, you dislike where you live at your current job


I agree. If you're not happy where you currently are, its time to move on. It will also speed up your career progression which will lead to higher pay in the future. But on the other hand, if you have a family in tow and the pay cut would put a lot of undue stress on you financially then that is also something to consider.
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North Shore
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by North Shore » Thu May 10, 2012 9:01 pm

Lifestyle. The pay will follow.
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wallypilot
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by wallypilot » Fri May 11, 2012 8:36 am

North Shore wrote:Lifestyle. The pay will follow.
+1

If you're not happy, who cares about the money?
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by flying4dollars » Fri May 11, 2012 8:48 am

DHeight wrote:Hey guys, recently I have been offered a job at a company that will remain nameless. This company is known for advancing your careers to the majors within a few years. Seems like the most senior crew members are hovering around 4 years. If I take the job I would be leaving a job that pays enough to remain comfortable, but living in a city that is absolutely horrendous and gheto. Let's say there isn't much of a lifestyle involved where I live currently.

Weighing my options.

Take the new job, take a pay cut, move to a city where I can have somewhat of a lifestyle (with consideration due to pay cut), get 705 time, upgrade in approximately 2 years, do my time at this company and look forward to career advancement to the majors or a corporate gig.

Stay at current job, dislike where I live, get paid good, upgrade in 3 to 4 years on a turbine below 12.5, taste really good money in the left seat, and not experience career advancement due to not wanting to take a massive pay cut (which is exactly what our senior pilot's are experiencing, preventing them to apply to any of the airlines).

I don't expect anybody to answer this for me, but give me some food for thought.

I appreciate all the advice.
Seems to me that your goal is the airlines. Just so you know, you'll be taking a paycut when you go to the majors. So taking this mystery job would, say call it, 'prepare' you for the cut you take going to a major.

I think people focus too much on the initial pay cut. What many maybe forget, is that it takes about 3-4 years to make it back, but in the long run, you will be doing much better. Food for thought.
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squash junky
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by squash junky » Fri May 11, 2012 9:41 am

Lifestyle now or an even better one in 10 or 20 yrs.
Tough choice.
I worked my bee-hind off in the first years, not caring about pay and after x years got to the right place at the right time with the right attitude, the right qualifications, and the right amount of luck.
Now I have a lifestyle I could only have dreamed about 30 yrs ago when I started.
There are no guarantees, but good people usually float up to the surface :)
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by CLguy » Fri May 11, 2012 9:05 pm

Take the new job and get the lifestyle you are looking for. You will eventually hate the new job as well but at least your life will be in order, unless you are doing all this to make the better half happy.
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Jack In The Box
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by Jack In The Box » Fri May 11, 2012 11:10 pm

I say you should go with the career advancement. People will preach lifestyle as long as you live, but sometimes to get there you gotta take the career advancement paths. Good luck!
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cj555
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by cj555 » Sat May 12, 2012 4:22 pm

CLguy wrote:Take the new job and get the lifestyle you are looking for. You will eventually hate the new job as well but at least your life will be in order, unless you are doing all this to make the better half happy.

What makes you say "eventually you will hate the new job too?" As someone thinking about pursuing aviation, I have imagined aviation would be a satisfying and fulfilling career.
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by Les Habitants » Sat May 12, 2012 9:49 pm

cj555 wrote:
CLguy wrote:Take the new job and get the lifestyle you are looking for. You will eventually hate the new job as well but at least your life will be in order, unless you are doing all this to make the better half happy.

What makes you say "eventually you will hate the new job too?" As someone thinking about pursuing aviation, I have imagined aviation would be a satisfying and fulfilling career.
exactly :P
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CLguy
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by CLguy » Sun May 13, 2012 6:08 am

Well the new job will eventually be the old job! Just ask any Air Canada Pilot when they can retire and everyone of them can tell you the exact day. They are now starting to wonder if there is even going to be a pension for them at the end. You don't go to work at the same job for 20 or 30 years, witness all the cutbacks and changes that have taken place in this industry and maintain the same enthusiasm and excitement you felt starting out. The Glory Days of aviation are long over, if there really was such a thing.
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cj555
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by cj555 » Mon May 14, 2012 6:10 am

CLguy wrote:Well the new job will eventually be the old job! Just ask any Air Canada Pilot when they can retire and everyone of them can tell you the exact day. They are now starting to wonder if there is even going to be a pension for them at the end. You don't go to work at the same job for 20 or 30 years, witness all the cutbacks and changes that have taken place in this industry and maintain the same enthusiasm and excitement you felt starting out. The Glory Days of aviation are long over, if there really was such a thing.

I have heard this sentiment going around for awhile. I have always wanted to be a pilot since I was very young, but ended up pursuing accounting instead. Now a few years into my career, I cannot see myself doing this for the rest of my life, and am considering purusing aviation.

Now that the "glory days" of aviation are over, does that mean this is no longer a desirable career, and most pilots are miserable in their jobs? I keep asking myself if I should go for it, or not. Many people encourage me, but many people do not. Its a very tough decision. What exactly has changed since the "glory days" that makes this career no longer desirable (besides the pension issue) for many pilots?
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loopa
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by loopa » Mon May 14, 2012 11:33 pm

The glory is what you make of it. It seems so many people are determined that the airlines are the glory, and for many it may still be and remain when they're there. For some people, the glory remains in making 100k flying turbo props around. Perhaps the idea of glory needs to move ahead with the times.

I know of pilot's in this industry who still wake up and love going to work.

I think the important thing is to find out what you like in the industry. For many they love the airline life style, for other's they hate it. See what you like. The nice thing about going to the airlines is that if you really dislike it, you can go back to what you were doing (in most cases).

Good Luck! :D
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by X-Savior » Tue May 15, 2012 1:22 am

:?
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by cj555 » Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 am

Great posts everyone.

I agree that the "glory" is what you make of it...and you either have the calling to be a pilot, or you don't. The tough part about deciding to pursue aviation is you will never know until you try if you will be one of the "lucky" ones who makes it....OR if you will end up as the other 50% who never makes it. I am starting my PPL this month, then I will have to make a decision after that about what I want to do.
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by CLguy » Tue May 15, 2012 7:04 am

Now a few years into my career, I cannot see myself doing this for the rest of my life,

I think you have answered your own question by the above quote. Aviation is no different especially when you are living in Bumf##ck, Nowhere away from family and friends for extended periods of time trying to figure out how you are going to pay for the room you are renting in some flop house. There is no doubt there are good jobs in Aviation but it seems to me what young pilots have to put up with to even get to where they can start hoping for a shot is not worth it.

The float industry is at it lowest point ever so there are less entry level jobs. The wages paid today are in some cases less than what was paid in the 70's and 80's.

X-Savior good post!
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by Krimson » Tue May 15, 2012 3:22 pm

I think you guys are putting too much emphasis on luck. Sure you can be lucky and be in the right place at the right time. No doubt it would make things a lot easier. However it is not luck which causes "50%" of pilots to not make it. It is just resignation. Be it from an extended period of not finding a job, finding a job in another field and making more money there and not wanting to take a pay cut, not wanting to give up a few years of friends and family for new ones. The ones who make it are not just lucky, its dedication. Doing something you really want to do, give in to the current state of our industry and do what it takes. If you have your eyes set on that company down the road from your house and not willing to take anything less, then chances are you won't make it. If you can cut free from your obligations for a few years, do some grunt work and come back. If you cannot just take off, then it will take some more work, find a rotational/seasonal job. Instruct part time for a few more years instead. If you just sit around waiting for luck, it will not happen. It doesn't have to be like this, but if its what you want to do, that's what it will take. There is some grunt work in a lot of professions, much more and much more dangerous in ours, but get to the top and try to change it from the top down, that will be the most effective way. Do what you can and help out the guys behind you.
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by X-Savior » Tue May 15, 2012 8:42 pm

:)
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esp803

Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by esp803 » Tue May 15, 2012 10:18 pm

It would take one hell of a paycheck to get me out of the current position. As for career advancement... if I could find a job flying a 185 on floats/skis that paid me enough to live comfortably in a place I want to live, I would retire there. I don't understand all this fuss about flying bigger and faster aircraft. I enjoy flying, and for me to really enjoy it I need to be low, slow and in the middle of no where... to each their own I suppose

E
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by loopa » Thu May 17, 2012 11:02 am

Some very excellent replies to this thread indeed.

So true Krimson, luck isn't the make it or break it phenomena that gets us by in this industry. For all the so called pilot's that we look up to or envy to be in their shoes, maybe 5% had the luck of having mommy and daddy help them, or happened to be an attractive young woman, or you get my deal (And no i'm not feminist, but with our brains running off our balls, it seems to be very hard to oversee deficiencies if they occur in women pilots, because they are so charming and wear a size smaller bra to perk up them churnies). LOL

In all seriousness though, if you have persistence, drive, motivation, and dedication to literally make this the end all be all career you were shooting for, then it means you're going to have to remember what inspired you from day 1, and never let any one or anything in this industry turn the chapter away from loving what you do. It is easier said than done because it is hard to not fall in the trap of bitterness when we have to put up with so much crap to make it.

Good luck every body!
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by TheStig » Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 am

Sorry guys I just don't agree with all the bitterness here, no things aren't and never will be as great as they were decades ago, but all you have to do is look at your peers outside of aviation. Not many jobs have kept pace with inflation in the last decade.
My friends in other industries all have expensive degrees, work long hours, and constantly working to meet "Performance Targets", find "New Markets" so their contracts will be extended. All of our lives have greater uncertainty, landing a job at a major airline provides no more job security than a position with the federal government, or a Fortune 500 company. We're all stuck buying expensive homes, pumping expensive gas into our cars, and while wondering if our job is secure.

Things always seem rosier when you're employed, but it doesn't appear that difficult to find a job right now with the right qualifications. Compare the industry right now to where it was in the early 90's when 5000 hour pilots couldn't find jobs flying PA-31's.

Somethings never seem to change though, and the same skills that landed you your first job will keep you employed throughout your career; treat you co-workers well, live within your paycheque, stay healthy, and as always fly safely.
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Re: Career advancement or pay cheque?

Post by Panama Jack » Wed May 23, 2012 10:47 pm

For a long time I have viewed the key to a happy existence as a 3-part equation:

1) Living somewhere you like living
2) Working in an environment that you enjoy
3) Making enough money to support your existence, save, and have a little disposable.

Making all three sides of this triangle come together tends to be a challenge, particularly in aviation. Companies pay lots of money to live in places where few want to live, and sometimes the jobs where everyone wants to live can afford to pay discount rates because employees tell themselves, oh well, at least they are living in la-la land.

Analysing your described situation, it seems like you only have one side of the triangle- the pay is good. You have made it clear that you don't like where you live, and it is unclear to me that you enjoy where you are working. But beyond the here and now, it does not sound like the long-term outlook is all that good either for improving your happiness.

Option 2, seems to offer a living environment that you feel is more suited to you and where you might enjoy working at (2 points vs. 1 point). But looking at the future, you have identified that you might have to sacrifice pay in the short term to make a better return in the future. Life is all about trade-offs and sacrifices and this is not unlike investing or playing the lottery. There never are never any guarantees on returns, but if you don't buy a ticket your chances of winning are zero. There are no rehersals in your career either, so whatever you do, make it count.

Hope that helps.
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