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 Post subject: Canadian North Hiring
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:16 am 
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Any Info out there on Canadian North Hiring Plans (First Officer employment add is up).

Schedule/pairing lengths for new 737 vs Dash Fo's?

Work environment etc?



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:30 am 
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Also if possible the pay structure for the 37 and the smash 8


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:35 am 
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Payscale for the 737 here.

http://..com/?page_id=560



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:43 am 
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Awesome thanks Mags!!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:53 am 
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mags wrote:
Any Info out there on Canadian North Hiring Plans (First Officer employment add is up).

Schedule/pairing lengths for new 737 vs Dash Fo's?

Work environment etc?


The work environment is good for the most part, good group at 5T. Expect YEG base. They need a lot of Dash guys at the moment, including direct entry captains. Might be a few Boeing F/O's too, but most (not all, still some external hiring directly onto the right seat of the Boeing) of those positions are filled internally by guys coming over from the Dash to the Boeing.

For schedules expect a min of 12 days off a month, maybe a few a few more on the D8. The Dash typically does a couple of 8 day pairings based out of YFB.

The Boeing fleet has a decent mix of multi day (up to 6 days away) pairings and single day trips. The multi day pairings vary between day trips out of YOW to YFB and return to night trips across the country to the east coast for the oil sands companies. The day pairings are sometimes long (6 legs from YEG up to YEV and back over 12 hours) or easy (an afternoon flight from YEG to the oil sands and back). It's a good mix and you can be home most nights if that is what you are looking for. If you're looking for glamorous big city layovers in exotic locations then this isn't the place for you. (unless you count the local talent in YFB or YZF as exotic)

The equipment is decent considering its age and use, and more -300's arriving all the time to replace the -200's. The pay as an F/O is lower than the other major airlines in Canada, however once you get to a left seat on the Boeing the pay/lifestyle is hard to beat. Because of that very few captains leave the company and the average age of a captain on the 737 is probably in the 40's somewhere, so there aren't alot of retirements coming up. Movement is therefore limited to fleet expansion, which can end at any time. Unfortunately 5T isn't really interested in long term f/o's in my opinion, they expect them to leave to other companies or upgrade and the pay reflects that. Right now people are still upgrading in 4-5 years on the Boeing, but I would expect that to slow down once the -200's start retiring over the next few years. It's a straight seniority system with equipment bids, so if you start on the Dash you can bid over to the Boeing or from the Boeing to the Dash as seniority allows when new positions are posted.

Been some rumours about a merger with 7F which could result in potential layoffs..but for the moment that is quiet and the hiring continues.

Interviews are a relaxed professional format, with usually an HR type and a pilot. Expect the typical currently in fashion behavioral type interview questions (ie tell us about a time you...) with the Situation, Action, Result answer type desired. A few questions about your flying career and a look over your logbook. Nothing technical at all. The sim eval is conducted in a -200 sim in YVR at the Air Canada building. It's all steam driven, so if you're used to glass it's an flash back to your earlier days in your career. Typical straightforward sim, you pick the seat, NDB hold, engine failure and raw data single engine ILS. If you haven't had much sim time you are going to struggle if you have never flown a jet before. If you're coming from a bigger 704/705 operator and have spent a few years doing simulator rides with good SOP's and can fly a sim pretty well, you'll manage to get through okay. They don't expect you to be perfect, but a reasonable attempt at maintaining altitudes and the ILS is expected if you want to get the job.



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:28 am 
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tbaylx wrote:
mags wrote:
Any Info out there on Canadian North Hiring Plans (First Officer employment add is up).

Schedule/pairing lengths for new 737 vs Dash Fo's?

Work environment etc?


The work environment is good for the most part, good group at 5T. Expect YEG base. They need a lot of Dash guys at the moment, including direct entry captains. Might be a few Boeing F/O's too, but most (not all, still some external hiring directly onto the right seat of the Boeing) of those positions are filled internally by guys coming over from the Dash to the Boeing.

For schedules expect a min of 12 days off a month, maybe a few a few more on the D8. The Dash typically does a couple of 8 day pairings based out of YFB.

The Boeing fleet has a decent mix of multi day (up to 6 days away) pairings and single day trips. The multi day pairings vary between day trips out of YOW to YFB and return to night trips across the country to the east coast for the oil sands companies. The day pairings are sometimes long (6 legs from YEG up to YEV and back over 12 hours) or easy (an afternoon flight from YEG to the oil sands and back). It's a good mix and you can be home most nights if that is what you are looking for. If you're looking for glamorous big city layovers in exotic locations then this isn't the place for you. (unless you count the local talent in YFB or YZF as exotic)

The equipment is decent considering its age and use, and more -300's arriving all the time to replace the -200's. The pay as an F/O is lower than the other major airlines in Canada, however once you get to a left seat on the Boeing the pay/lifestyle is hard to beat. Because of that very few captains leave the company and the average age of a captain on the 737 is probably in the 40's somewhere, so there aren't alot of retirements coming up. Movement is therefore limited to fleet expansion, which can end at any time. Unfortunately 5T isn't really interested in long term f/o's in my opinion, they expect them to leave to other companies or upgrade and the pay reflects that. Right now people are still upgrading in 4-5 years on the Boeing, but I would expect that to slow down once the -200's start retiring over the next few years. It's a straight seniority system with equipment bids, so if you start on the Dash you can bid over to the Boeing or from the Boeing to the Dash as seniority allows when new positions are posted.

Been some rumours about a merger with 7F which could result in potential layoffs..but for the moment that is quiet and the hiring continues.

Interviews are a relaxed professional format, with usually an HR type and a pilot. Expect the typical currently in fashion behavioral type interview questions (ie tell us about a time you...) with the Situation, Action, Result answer type desired. A few questions about your flying career and a look over your logbook. Nothing technical at all. The sim eval is conducted in a -200 sim in YVR at the Air Canada building. It's all steam driven, so if you're used to glass it's an flash back to your earlier days in your career. Typical straightforward sim, you pick the seat, NDB hold, engine failure and raw data single engine ILS. If you haven't had much sim time you are going to struggle if you have never flown a jet before. If you're coming from a bigger 704/705 operator and have spent a few years doing simulator rides with good SOP's and can fly a sim pretty well, you'll manage to get through okay. They don't expect you to be perfect, but a reasonable attempt at maintaining altitudes and the ILS is expected if you want to get the job.



Great Post!


cheers



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:00 am 
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good to see a company still hiring partially based on a pilots ability to fly the plane still


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:25 pm 
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fish4life wrote:
good to see a company still hiring partially based on a pilots ability to fly the plane still


With the type of flying we do and the limited functions of the SP77 autopilot in the Boeings it's really important to have guys with reasonably good hands and feet.



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:30 pm 
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fish4life wrote:
good to see a company still hiring partially based on a pilots ability to fly the plane still


A policy Air France should consider?



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:01 am 
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tbaylx wrote:
fish4life wrote:
good to see a company still hiring partially based on a pilots ability to fly the plane still


With the type of flying we do and the limited functions of the SP77 autopilot in the Boeings it's really important to have guys with reasonably good hands and feet.


Makes sense, even if you don't have old equipment I don't understand why every airline doesn't adopt this strategy, recent accidents suggest that we should be re enforcing hands and feet/ raw data flying.



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:38 am 
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Location: Brantford? Not so much...
no YOW base...pity.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:08 am 
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Thanks for the info


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Brantford Beech Boy wrote:
no YOW base...pity.



The rumors persist of a YOW base opening, even a expression of interest memo has gone out to gauge who would be interested, but so far it remains just a rumor. It may happen eventually, however I would not count on it.



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:26 pm 
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tbaylx wrote:
Brantford Beech Boy wrote:
no YOW base...pity.



The rumors persist of a YOW base opening, even a expression of interest memo has gone out to gauge who would be interested, but so far it remains just a rumor. It may happen eventually, however I would not count on it.


If this merger talk keeps up, you'll have a CYOW base before you know it.



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:01 am 
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Changes in Latitudes wrote:
tbaylx wrote:
Brantford Beech Boy wrote:
no YOW base...pity.



The rumors persist of a YOW base opening, even a expression of interest memo has gone out to gauge who would be interested, but so far it remains just a rumor. It may happen eventually, however I would not count on it.


If this merger talk keeps up, you'll have a CYOW base before you know it.


And if we merge and get a YOW base you'll only need 20 years seniority to be able to hold it.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:06 pm 
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interesting


Last edited by Darkhorse on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:08 pm 
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I'm curious about the schedule at Canadain North. Is it resonable for someone to commute?? Also, are standby and jumpseat available with other carriers?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:43 pm 
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penismightier wrote:
I'm curious about the schedule at Canadain North. Is it resonable for someone to commute?? Also, are standby and jumpseat available with other carriers?


The answer to that is it depends...where are you commuting from and what fleet.

If you're on the Dash it's typically 8 day pairings twice a month in YFB, so a commute is quite easily doable. On the Boeing there are many more 1 day pairings and some reserve days (mixed blocks) so a commute from any distance away from YEG is tough. There are a few guys doing it from the West coast, and Saskatoon but much further away i think your lifestyle would suffer. There is no computerized bidding system in place at the moment, everything is still done by hand so your ability to pick specific pairings and build a commuting schedule is limited to how much time a person can spend on your schedule. The result is usually a less than ideal commuting schedule. It can be done, but you are going to spend some time away from home doing it.

Zed fares are available with several other airlines in canada and abroad. Reciprocal jumpseat agreements with AC and WJ, so getting around isn't that hard.



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:05 pm 
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tbaylx wrote:
penismightier wrote:
I'm curious about the schedule at Canadain North. Is it resonable for someone to commute?? Also, are standby and jumpseat available with other carriers?


The answer to that is it depends...where are you commuting from and what fleet.

If you're on the Dash it's typically 8 day pairings twice a month in YFB, so a commute is quite easily doable. On the Boeing there are many more 1 day pairings and some reserve days (mixed blocks) so a commute from any distance away from YEG is tough. There are a few guys doing it from the West coast, and Saskatoon but much further away i think your lifestyle would suffer. There is no computerized bidding system in place at the moment, everything is still done by hand so your ability to pick specific pairings and build a commuting schedule is limited to how much time a person can spend on your schedule. The result is usually a less than ideal commuting schedule. It can be done, but you are going to spend some time away from home doing it.

Zed fares are available with several other airlines in canada and abroad. Reciprocal jumpseat agreements with AC and WJ, so getting around isn't that hard.


Thanks, I appreciate it. Fingers crossed for an interview.



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Just wondering what life is like as a newbie 737 F/O. I currently live in YYC and would love to get YYC basing, but is it possible to commute to YEG on a low seniority number? I really don't have any intention of moving to YEG. How about the pay ($3700/mth gross), what do you take home every 2 weeks after taxes before per diem? Average hours of flying a year? Is it over all a good place to work? People happy? Just wanting to get a pulse on the place, because doesn't seem like there is much conversation about it. Does anyone think layoffs will happen at Canadian North with this First Air take over?

I really appreciate the information, thank you!

Cheers
KP



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:50 am 
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KenoraPilot wrote:
Just wondering what life is like as a newbie 737 F/O. I currently live in YYC and would love to get YYC basing, but is it possible to commute to YEG on a low seniority number? I really don't have any intention of moving to YEG. How about the pay ($3700/mth gross), what do you take home every 2 weeks after taxes before per diem? Average hours of flying a year? Is it over all a good place to work? People happy? Just wanting to get a pulse on the place, because doesn't seem like there is much conversation about it. Does anyone think layoffs will happen at Canadian North with this First Air take over?

I really appreciate the information, thank you!

Cheers
KP


Life for a new 737 F/O isn't bad at all. The issue is getting through that first 18 months of low wages, a problem that seems to plague airlines in Canada. It's almost as if they treat it as an apprentice job for the first few years despite the fact that they hire people with years of experience. Right now months 1-18 take home about $1500 every two weeks after tax and before perdiems. Perdiems vary depending on what pairings you are doing, its a TAFB system..figure $500/month ish on the Boeing. At 18 months the take home goes up $1000/month, and another $500/month 6 months after that. Essentially you suffer for 18 months, but by the end of your second year the pay is in the $70K a year range.

I would guess around 600 hours/year of actual flying time, depending on what pairings you do. If you were trying to commute from YYC it's certainly doable if you don't mind some driving. You can try and ask for multi day trips to avoid the one day pairings in YEG. Out scheduling system is very archaic, and not at all sophisticated so it make it a bit more difficult as we are only able to bid for days off. We live in hope that we eventually get a decent computerized bid system. At the moment our Calgary Base is expanding, so there are positions opening up for internal movement there all the time. No idea how long it would take you before you could be based there though. I don't know of any other airline that you can be at home as much if that is what you desire. Plenty of one day pairings that get you home almost every night. A good variety of flying if you're looking for multi day layovers as well.

The million dollar question is IF the 7F buyout happens how it will affect both companies. Lets put it this way, I've never heard of a merger that has gone well for pilots. Someone is always unhappy. There are the types at both companies that just want to get themselves ahead at the expense of the other group, but at the end of the day if we can't come up with a reasonable solution to both groups an arbitrator will, and I view that as a failure of professionals to act like one. Not sure at all if it would involve layoffs, at the moment I can say we are short pilots and expanding/hiring so I would suspect that will continue for awhile, merger or not. Your guess is as good as mine, and many of us would like the same answers. No information at all is forthcoming from the company though, only rumors making people nervous.

Overall most people are happy here. There are some issues, like with any airline. The people you work with are great, the flying is interesting and challenging. If you're looking for exotic layover destinations in the sun, flying shiny new equipment then this isn't the place for you. Some pilots treat this as a stepping stone to get on with WJ or AC. I argue that is shortsighted and that its a career airline once you get in the left seat of the Boeing, however some pilots want for whatever reasons to cross multiple time zones in the middle of the night flying wide body aircraft for a 24 hour layyover somewhere "exotic" only to spend most of the time sleeping in a hotel in order to turn around and come back the other way. How long an upgrade here takes really depends on the state of the economy and the 7F merger though. If the upgrades slow down there will need to be an increase in the F/O pay scales at the upper end in order to keep guys here longer term in my opinion.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Thank you very much, that was awesome! Really shed some light on some stuff. Just trying to weigh my options and figure out whats best in my next step. Cheers KP


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:32 am 
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Good news for 5t guys. The merger is not going to happen. Apparently 5T doesn't have the money. I think they wanted to sell the Hercs off right away to pay for it. Anyways...maybe a merger with Air Inuit is more likely. Besides...those Makkivik BoD members need their million dollar bonuses for the occasional meetings they attend.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2008/12/15/a-ti ... g-bonuses/

NEWS: Nunavut October 03, 2012 - 3:42 pm
Makivvik kills idea of First Air sale to Norterra

Nunavut-Nunavik airline to stay put
NUNATSIAQ NEWS


The Makivvik Corp. will not sell First Air to Norterra or any other buyer, Makkivik’s board said in a statement Oct. 3

“After a rigorous review of its strategic options, the board confirmed its decision to retain full ownership of this important investment,” Makivvik said.

At the same time, Makivvik said their president and chief executive officer, Kris Dolinki, will resign his position as of Oct. 12, for personal reasons and “to spend more time with his young family.”

Dolinki has served in First Air’s top job since December 2011, when he succeeded Scott Bateman.

“For more than two years, Mr. Dolinki assisted the board with a rigorous review of our strategic alternatives. Kris had committed to see that project to its conclusion and with that behind us, it is time for new leadership to guide the future direction and success of First Air,” said Jobie Tukkiapik, president of Makivvik Corp.

Chris Ferris, First Air’s vice president of marketing, will now act as interim president and CEO while a special committee of Makivvik’s board will search for a permanent president and CEO, the company said.

This past spring, reliable sources told Nunatsiaq News that Norterra, the 50-50 Inuvialuit and Nunavut Inuit owner of First Air rival Canadian North, was in talks with Makivvik to discuss a purchase or merger.

But officials with Norterra would not confirm that such a deal was under discussion.

Makivvik, the birthright organization for Nunavik Inuit beneficiaries of the James Bay land claims agreement (which has also used the spelling Makivik), has owned First Air since 1990 and operated it as a wholly-owned subsidiary.

The firm now employs more than 1,000 people, about 450 of whom live in northern Canada.

Starting in 2010, First Air formed joint-venture partnerships with two Nunavut birthright corporations: Sakku Corp. and Qikiqtaaluk Corp., to create the Sakku First and Qikiqtani First regional airlines.

This past June, the two companies announced they had won about 95 per cent of the Government of Nunavut’s air cargo business.

In its Oct. 3 statement, Makkivik said its board “reaffirmed its commitment to First Air’s strategic joint ventures with Sakku First Aviation Limited and Qikiqtani First Aviation Limited.”

And Tukkiapik said the Makivvik board and First Air’s management will go to work on “several strategic initiatives with a renewed focus on working with our joint venture partners.”



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:18 am 
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Even better news for 7F guys! BTW... 5T wasn't looking to buy 7F, Norterra was.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Kind of good news for everyone.

I understand that there wasn't going to be a marger but 7F was to be parted out and shut down.

Doesn't change the basics of the environment though- neither company is raking in the dough right now.

But... Game on buddies!



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