Nor-Alta

[ipsarbin]

Hey guys,
Just curious if anyone on the forum can provide me with feedback about Nor-Alta.
What is the schedule like once you are flying as a FO and CPT?
Is there any sort of bond within the company?
Thanks for your time, any comments are appreciated

[duro195]

+1
Has anybody got any info?

[takamasa]

i had the interview with them before

basically 20 on 10 off.

1 year bond, 6500 $ pro rated after 6 months.

pay is above industry average.

[High Flyin]

i had the interview with them before

basically 20 on 10 off.

1 year bond, 6500 $ pro rated after 6 months.

pay is above industry average.

What were your qualifications when you applied?

[AJV]

[quote="takamasa"

pay is above industry average.[/quote]
Which is?

[looproll]

How do they have crews on-call for 20 days in a row? Is it in the OC? I think not.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... 2-1629.htm


Requirements for Time Free from Duty

700.19 (1) Subject to subsection (2), an air operator shall provide each flight crew member with the following time free from duty:

(a) where the operation is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter, one period of at least 36 consecutive hours within each 7 consecutive days or one period of at least 3 consecutive calendar days within each 17 consecutive days;

(b) where the operation is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 or is conducted using a helicopter, one period of at least 24 consecutive hours 13 times within each 90 consecutive days and 3 times within each 30 consecutive days; and

(c) where the flight crew member is a flight crew member on call, one period of at least 36 consecutive hours within each 7 consecutive days or one period of at least 3 consecutive calendar days within each 17 consecutive days.

(2) An air operator may provide a flight crew member with time free from duty other than as required by paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) if

(a) the time free from duty is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

(b) the air operator and the flight crew member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

[takamasa]

They introduce something like double crew on plane. I was not too sure with that since It was just an interview.

The pay is $3000 per month. Crew house provided for pilots only ,not for their family members.

I had 1100 hrs when I was being interviewed.

[looproll]

Yes, there are two crews during a medevac shift. Some operators do days/nights, or first up, second up. Obviously you can't have just one crew covering 24 hours a day. Nor can you have a crew on-call for 20 days straight, period. I don't know how they have been getting away with this for so long. It's rationalized in their minds because they may have passed TC audits with this scheme in place, which is clearly in violation of the CARs requirements for time free from duty. If it's not, Nor Alta guys, please explain. You can't just go back in the 20 day period a pick a 36 hour period for the week where you didn't fly and call that your rest period.

[SgtStroka]

Yes, there are two crews during a medevac shift. Some operators do days/nights, or first up, second up. Obviously you can't have just one crew covering 24 hours a day. Nor can you have a crew on-call for 20 days straight, period. I don't know how they have been getting away with this for so long. It's rationalized in their minds because they may have passed TC audits with this scheme in place, which is clearly in violation of the CARs requirements for time free from duty. If it's not, Nor Alta guys, please explain. You can't just go back in the 20 day period a pick a 36 hour period for the week where you didn't fly and call that your rest period.

Just when we thought the Air Mik Pilots were all gone, and the complaining was over, one more appears again! Your still upset your precious 2 week rotation was taken away from you, and you were put inline with the rest of the pilots.

To answer the posters question, its a good place to hang your hat for a few years. Maintenance is great, somewhat limiting flying for the C206s if your starting off with low hours, (6-7 strips you'll regularly fly too) Medevac flying, it is what it is. Can be busy, can be slow, thats they way she goes! If you move on up after the 206, likely it would be the B200 for a while and if you wanted to fly the Caravan VFR or IFR, provided your the right guy for the job, they will give it to you. No bond whatsoever on the B200 if you start from the ground up of course, (Dispatcher/206) However if your jumping into the 200 right away, yes there is a bond.

Good folks, small town to live in, with it comes some nice small town hospitality. And if your a dude....theres a few girls up there.

Good Luck

[Captain X]

SgtStroka, why don't you cut out the pissing match and come up with some proof as to why you can work 20 days on call, with less than 1 hour notice to wheels up? That's a AHS contract requirement, so you cannot say your on reserve.
I highly doubt this has anything to do with ex miksew guys and more with Noralta working in the grey area to squeeze out a few more bucks outta the crews over there. If you had a CARS duty program to track your duty, it would flag you if you tried to work your 15th day on call.

[looproll]

Nor Alta is a decent place to work, don't get me wrong, but please explain the 20 day on-call thing.

Sgt, it's not a Air Mikisew vs. Nor Alta thing. Mikisew had a great deal, Nor alta has a good deal. Who wouldn't be dissatisfied with a degradation of working conditions, i.e. pay, schedule? It still not about that. I'm waiting a logical explanation from the CARs how it's legal to have someone ON-CALL for 20 days straight. Am I missing something?

[duro195]

Thanks Sgt! It sure looks like a nice place! I'm a low timer from Qc trying to move out of the place to start my career. I'd love to go build PIC time on that 206! Have you ever heard if they hired some 300hr guys? It's the absolute minimum on their website for the 206.

[High Flyin]

They introduce something like double crew on plane. I was not too sure with that since It was just an interview.

The pay is $3000 per month. Crew house provided for pilots only ,not for their family members.

I had 1100 hrs when I was being interviewed.

What was your PIC and multi time if you don't mind me also asking? PM if you like.

[Ralliart]

please explain the 20 day on-call thing

You actually produced the ruling in your first post.

Subject to subsection (2)

(2) An air operator may provide a flight crew member with time free from duty other than as required by paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) if

(a) the time free from duty is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

(b) the air operator and the flight crew member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

In a nutshell: Op Spec 94

(a) following at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty, a flight crew member may be assigned duty for up to 42 consecutive days; and

[Conquest Driver]

If they're double crewing an aircraft, perhaps they're doing 12 or 14 hour shifts? That's not "on call".

Paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) don't matter because the governing section for on call is (c)

[alti2d]

From my understanding of the Nor-Alta medevac crew scheduling, not only have they passed TC audits with this 'scheme' in place, they also went to their POI to have a TC letter issued on the matter due to such objections from the 'newly hired' Mikisewer crews. There is justification for their 20/10 sched in the regs, and they hold the Op Spec. As to CARs 700.19(1)(c), the argument (and what TC apparently agrees with) is that the each first up/second up flight crew does not spend 7 or 17 consecutive days on call. By the nature of the business, they will find that they are 'second up' for amounts of time within that block, second up time, is not 'on call'. If 'on call' is defined as being available for duty within one hour, remaining 'second up' does not meet that definition. A crew will not sit for 7 days 'first up' so this paragraph would not apply.

This is similar in idea (I believe and by way of example) to CARs 700.16(2) when the operator assigns crew to two consecutive 14 hour duty days with minimum rest periods and then the 3rd day is a 12 hour duty day, followed by a 14 hour duty day the next day, it takes away the requirement to provide that 24 hour rest period. Airlines do do this.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#700_19
[700.16(2) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 using an aircraft other than a helicopter or a DeHavilland DHC-6 aircraft pursuant to the Commercial Air Service Standards, a flight crew member shall receive at least 24 consecutive hours free from flight duty following 3 consecutive flight duty time assignments that exceed 12 consecutive hours unless the flight crew member has received at least 24 consecutive hours free from flight duty between each flight duty time assignment.]

But, back to my initial point, TC is aware and has implicitly approved the schedule, whether anyone else agrees with that or not is of little relevance.


Nor-Alta is a decent place to work, they give pilots a chance, hire low time guys, allow them to prove themselves and still require relatively little commitment in terms of bonds (despite being burnt on multiple occasions) or other conditions on employment. When pilots make mistakes and equipment is damaged, they deal with the issue fairly (which isn't code for firing pilots). If one were to find that this was their first stepping stone into an aviation career, you could find a lot worse places to make that first step.

[Conquest Driver]

Well, now I'm confused. I've seen lots of cases where 2 crews will sit around for 3 days (but with no notice that they are relieved of duty), then seen them blast off within 15 minutes of each other. Is it being suggested that the second up crew doesn't have to go? Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, they're on call.

[xlwing]

If it comes to being forced to stay in the dumpy town of your base of operation (ex: Ft. V) as 'second up', I'd hardly call that time away from duty or not classified as a reserve or on-call status, regardless of signed-off exemptions.

[looproll]

[duro195]

According to the Civil Aircraft Register, they have 4 206. Are they all based in La Crete or are they split between Fort Mac, High Level and La Crete? I'm just curious as to how a low timer who's PIC on a 206 can live in such an expensive city as Fort Mac.
thanks again!