RAMP..only RAMP?

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CXALE
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RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by CXALE »

Hi all, I am an european 500TT pilot and I just finished the conversion process to get canadian CPL IFR I.
I was reading in this forum that one option to get a job as F/O is to first apply and work on the ramp.
I was just wondering if that only applies for the ramp, or If i get a job as a flight dispatcher, international trip coordinator or any other ground position available I will have the same chances?
Thanks for your replies, take it easy on me, it's my first post!!! :prayer:
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Adam Oke
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Adam Oke »

CXALE wrote:Hi all, I am an european 500TT pilot and I just finished the conversion process to get canadian CPL IFR I.
I was reading in this forum that one option to get a job as F/O is to first apply and work on the ramp.
I was just wondering if that only applies for the ramp, or If i get a job as a flight dispatcher, international trip coordinator or any other ground position available I will have the same chances?
Thanks for your replies, take it easy on me, it's my first post!!! :prayer:
It will vary between companies and their protocol for upgrading from within. But yes, there are companies out there that will train their dispatchers/load masters/flight attendants. However, I would stick with option one and apply as an FO. 500TT opens up the medevac door so it shouldn't be too difficult to find up a job. Don't forget about those single engine airplanes -- some pay very well.
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bushhopper
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by bushhopper »

Oh boy, did you check out Canadian aviation conditions before spending the money?

1. We have tones of local (Canadian) pilots fighting over ramp jobs = Good luck getting a job and visa, average wait on most ramps is around 2 years minimum, and Air Tindi is 3 years.

2. 500TT medivac is Manitoba only, all other require 1000TT and already have a list of pilots waiting to get spots. And good luck getting Visa for any pilot job as there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system. Yes, flight schools will take your money for flight training but after that, the expectation is that you go back home and fly there.

Heck, our Immigration Ministry is under pressure to lower and slowly drop all temporary work permits in most skilled labour sectors.

Sorry to brake the bad news, and if you get a job, you are really really lucky.
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Adam Oke
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Adam Oke »

bushhopper wrote:Oh boy, did you check out Canadian aviation conditions before spending the money?

1. We have tones of local (Canadian) pilots fighting over ramp jobs = Good luck getting a job and visa, average wait on most ramps is around 2 years minimum, and Air Tindi is 3 years.

2. 500TT medivac is Manitoba only, all other require 1000TT and already have a list of pilots waiting to get spots. And good luck getting Visa for any pilot job as there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system. Yes, flight schools will take your money for flight training but after that, the expectation is that you go back home and fly there.

Heck, our Immigration Ministry is under pressure to lower and slowly drop all temporary work permits in most skilled labour sectors.

Sorry to brake the bad news, and if you get a job, you are really really lucky.
I know a number of foreign pilots that continue to be employed in Canada. Albeit on a seasonal basis, but they do vary from their younger years to the older generation of pilots. Sure there is quite the surplus of pilots here in Canada, but the industry is not at the bottom of the hiring cycle just yet -- there is still plenty of movement. Depending on what CXALE's plan's are, this will determine how easy it will be to land a job; Are you currently in Canada? Are you moving to Canada permanently and becoming a landed immigrant? Are you a landed immigrant seeking citizenship? Are you a Canadian Citizen? Are you looking for a seasonal right seat gig? --- Plenty of further questions before you give the guy a hard time about bad news, no luck, and throwing money away....

500TT is not Manitoba only. Pilots are put in the right seat in aircraft ranging from a PC-12 up to a Lear with less than 1000TT. It will all depend on the company, as some are even as low as a 200hr wonder. Take a look at Ornge for example. It strikes me that they are not Manitoba based...
Valid 2000 hours Fixed Wing(Captain ) 500 hours PIC multi-engine, 100 hours on Type (Captain) or 500 hours (First Officer)
Ref: http://www.ornge.ca/careers/Aviation/Pa ... ilots.aspx
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bushhopper
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by bushhopper »

captain or FO time, does not say FO position:

The key word is "OR"

Valid 2000 hours Fixed Wing(Captain ) 500 hours PIC multi-engine, 100 hours on Type (Captain) or 500 hours (First Officer)....

Got to read and pay attention to the detail (fine print). The basic run down is that Ornge will not hire direct entry captains anymore. Ornge has about 5 FOs ready to move captain seat, and are being told its gonna be a while.

Adam, ill hold your hand on this one: http://www.ornge.ca/careers/Pages/PC12F ... ncies.aspx

Qualifications:

Valid commercial pilot license
1500 hours total time
500 hours pilot in command
Current IFR
Valid Class 1 Medical
Valid Canadian passport or ability to work in Canada and ability to travel to the U.S.A.
A Criminal Record Search is a requirement for this position
Immunization records with required vaccinations is a requirement for this position

Orange can not be based in Manitoba as it has Ontario contract with Ministry of Health and they are the ones who set the standard, and other airlines have same with MNR, and all goverment flying and Hydro. Only Place Ornge will fly in Manitoba is to Winnipeg for inter-province transfers.

Ornge Minimum are 1000 hours with IFR experience. Canadian Aviation is at the bottom of hiring as Air Canada as slowed down hiring. How many FO positions do you see posted on Av Canada? NONE in last 30 days for anyone under 1500 hours. Yellowknife has more Ramp Rats then we have soldiers in our Canadian Military.

Reality Check Done: Step 2: Good Luck.
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Last edited by bushhopper on Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CXALE
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by CXALE »

bushhopper wrote:Oh boy, did you check out Canadian aviation conditions before spending the money?

Good luck getting a job and visa, average wait on most ramps is around 2 years minimum, and Air Tindi is 3 years.

. And good luck getting Visa for any pilot job as there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system.

Heck, our Immigration Ministry is under pressure to lower and slowly drop all temporary work permits in most skilled labour sectors.

.
Thanks for the immigration related advice, I bet you are an expert in immigrational issues, however, and since I am posting on a aviation forum, I am seeking aviation/career advice.
I just want to know that, if I have to stick on a ground position for 3 years, I could at least work inside in the comfort of an office (specially in winter haha)
Cheers
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Last edited by CXALE on Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CXALE
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by CXALE »

Adam Oke wrote:
bushhopper wrote:Oh boy, did you check out Canadian aviation conditions before spending the money?

1. We have tones of local (Canadian) pilots fighting over ramp jobs = Good luck getting a job and visa, average wait on most ramps is around 2 years minimum, and Air Tindi is 3 years.

2. 500TT medivac is Manitoba only, all other require 1000TT and already have a list of pilots waiting to get spots. And good luck getting Visa for any pilot job as there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system. Yes, flight schools will take your money for flight training but after that, the expectation is that you go back home and fly there.

Heck, our Immigration Ministry is under pressure to lower and slowly drop all temporary work permits in most skilled labour sectors.

Sorry to brake the bad news, and if you get a job, you are really really lucky.
I know a number of foreign pilots that continue to be employed in Canada. Albeit on a seasonal basis, but they do vary from their younger years to the older generation of pilots. Sure there is quite the surplus of pilots here in Canada, but the industry is not at the bottom of the hiring cycle just yet -- there is still plenty of movement. Depending on what CXALE's plan's are, this will determine how easy it will be to land a job; Are you currently in Canada? Are you moving to Canada permanently and becoming a landed immigrant? Are you a landed immigrant seeking citizenship? Are you a Canadian Citizen? Are you looking for a seasonal right seat gig? --- Plenty of further questions before you give the guy a hard time about bad news, no luck, and throwing money away....

500TT is not Manitoba only. Pilots are put in the right seat in aircraft ranging from a PC-12 up to a Lear with less than 1000TT. It will all depend on the company, as some are even as low as a 200hr wonder. Take a look at Ornge for example. It strikes me that they are not Manitoba based...
Valid 2000 hours Fixed Wing(Captain ) 500 hours PIC multi-engine, 100 hours on Type (Captain) or 500 hours (First Officer)
Ref: http://www.ornge.ca/careers/Aviation/Pa ... ilots.aspx
Been living in calgary for 3 years, on open work permits, expecting to get my permanent residence early next year
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Krimson
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Krimson »

500 TT for FO, the captain requirements being more restrictive.

Besides the point I wanted to make though, there are lots of opportunities to get a flying job in Canada. Lots of employers will not even look at not being a Canadian citizen as a consideration. Go out and bang on a few doors.
If I was in your position I would look for work as a pilot, not on the ramp. Maybe work on the ramp somewhere as a backup until you can find a flying job elsewhere.

The big difference is in Canada we have a lot of General Aviation, so don't just look at 703 operators, there are lots of 702 jobs on light singles that can get you more experience quick and become more marketable.
there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system
Do you have a source for this? (aside from the case specific 737-Typed pilots debate going on in other threads)
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bushhopper
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by bushhopper »

HOW do we know if you will get a job inside the office? Some places will hire for office work others will not. For every dispatcher there is 15 ramp rats. Unless you got 2 cannons and are good looking your chances are low. Any rampie will give a left nut to get dispatch.

CXALE wrote:
bushhopper wrote:Oh boy, did you check out Canadian aviation conditions before spending the money?

Good luck getting a job and visa, average wait on most ramps is around 2 years minimum, and Air Tindi is 3 years.

. And good luck getting Visa for any pilot job as there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system.

Heck, our Immigration Ministry is under pressure to lower and slowly drop all temporary work permits in most skilled labour sectors.

.
Thanks for the immigration related advice, I bet you are an expert in immigrational issues, however, and since I am posting on a aviation forum, I am seeking aviation/career advice.
I just want to know that, if I have to stick on a ground position for 3 years, I could at least work inside in the confort of an office (specialy in winter haha)
Cheers
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Last edited by bushhopper on Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by bushhopper »

Yes I do have a source, Immigration Canada is planning on changing the system starting new year. The plan is to address the underemployment economy in our country.

CXALE, if you have a open visa, why did you state that you are a European? Looking for special treatment?

If you have a open visa, why even state what is your current nationality?
Krimson wrote:500 TT for FO, the captain requirements being more restrictive.

Besides the point I wanted to make though, there are lots of opportunities to get a flying job in Canada. Lots of employers will not even look at not being a Canadian citizen as a consideration. Go out and bang on a few doors.
If I was in your position I would look for work as a pilot, not on the ramp. Maybe work on the ramp somewhere as a backup until you can find a flying job elsewhere.

The big difference is in Canada we have a lot of General Aviation, so don't just look at 703 operators, there are lots of 702 jobs on light singles that can get you more experience quick and become more marketable.
there is a push to eliminate all foreign commercial working pilots out of our system
Do you have a source for this? (aside from the case specific 737-Typed pilots debate going on in other threads)
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Last edited by bushhopper on Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Adam Oke
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Adam Oke »

There are many pilots out there who have been hired well below posted minimums. Apply for the jobs you want, not the jobs you are "qualified" for. There is a heavy hitter user on here called xsbank that has some great stickies in the Employment section that are well worth a read and touch on this very message.

Best of luck CXALE. Permanent resident, landed immigrant, and obviously citizen will really open doors. Like myself and Krimson have stated, apply for pilot positions. The worst they can offer you is a PFO or what you are seeking in this thread ....the ramp/other. Hope you are enjoying Calgary.
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CXALE
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by CXALE »

bushhopper wrote: CXALE, if you have a open visa, why did you state that you are a European? Looking for special treatment?

If you have a open visa, why even state what is your current nationality?
Good point, just to state that I am not 100% aware of what's going on in Canada, that I have no contacts, and also that could be a fact, because I have tried to work as a flight attendant (I have 5 years of experience in Europe) but in the requirements it's always stated "Canadian Citizen or Landed Immigrant" so, I don't know if being on a work permit whether open or not could be an issue.

Thanx again
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Airmanship Police
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Airmanship Police »

Why not work in your country?
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CXALE
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by CXALE »

Airmanship Police wrote:Why not work in your country?
mmhhh.......'cause I want to live here???
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by AJV »

Alberta is also 500TT for medevac FO, that said we have been getting type rated guys with experience so I would have to agree it is still very tough for 500 TT guys to get a job at a GOOD operator.
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by digits_ »

bushhopper wrote:Yes I do have a source, Immigration Canada is planning on changing the system starting new year. The plan is to address the underemployment economy in our country.
Hi bushhopper, would you care to clarify on this ? Maybe a link to an online article or source with some more information ?

Thank you!
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bushhopper
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by bushhopper »

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department ... /index.asp.

Based on this; it wont favor immigration.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... ZYO37Neaww
digits_ wrote:
bushhopper wrote:Yes I do have a source, Immigration Canada is planning on changing the system starting new year. The plan is to address the underemployment economy in our country.
Hi bushhopper, would you care to clarify on this ? Maybe a link to an online article or source with some more information ?

Thank you!
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Krimson
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Krimson »

The borders are not closing any time soon, and probably never will. Canada is a country built on immigration.
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bushhopper
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by bushhopper »

Krimson wrote:The borders are not closing any time soon, and probably never will. Canada is a country built on immigration.
that is your opinion.
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Re: RAMP..only RAMP?

Post by Krimson »

Your source says nothing about kicking out immigrants from Canada on work permits.
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