What do I do?

[Naossoan]

God I don't even know where to start...

I finished my CPL this Winter and now I'm looking for my first job.

I don't care if it's in Canada or in Tasmania. I will go wherever I need to go, but so far I've been looking in Canada.

I've been looking on this forum and on Pilot Career Centre website (which I think is a horrible design and website as a whole) but I don't know where else to look.

Everything I have found is 500 TT here, 1000 TT there (or more) which I obviously don't qualify for. I've got 200 hours with a CPL and Night Rating under my belt and that's it.

I saw one ad for a fishing lodge place somewhere near Winnipeg which I contacted them about but hadn't heard anything back, they were asking only 250 hours.

From what I hear around the industry like from my flight instructor and the flight school and stuff is everyone wants you to work the ramp for X (3+ in most cases!?) before they'll put you in a plane. What is that BS? Why would I want to go work the ramp for God knows how long when I just spent 50 grand paying for a freakin pilot's license!? This doesn't make any sense to me.

Where do I look to find a job!? There just doesn't seem to be very many postings online for pilot jobs in general, let alone anything I would qualify for. Do operators just not post stuff online in a centralized way? Do I need to find a list of every operator in Canada with SE GA aircraft and just apply to every single one of them? Where can I find such a list?

I will fly anywhere. I just want to fly. I love it so much and I just feel like the Canadian industry is crushing my soul and my dreams of being a pilot. Can anyone recommend anywhere to look for jobs within Canada and outside of Canada? I understand the situation is much the same in America so I don't much care to find work there but if the opportunity arises I would take it.

I would much rather fly some rinky dink SE out in the middle of no where than be right seat. If I'm right seat I'm not flying. Sure, with the new laws coming into play at some point in the not too distant future all those hours will count for me but who wants to be right seat!? I mean I would do it, but the same story seems to apply. Go work the ramp for who knows how long then maybe we'll put you in a plane. What kind of schtick is that!?

Can anyone offer any guidance?

Thanks so much.

[photofly]

Why would I want to go work the ramp for God knows how long when I just spent 50 grand paying for a freakin pilot's license!?

Is now a good time to ask what you thought you were buying for $50k?

[Diadem]

You should have started researching this long ago. Here's the deal: there are a thousand other 200-hour pilots out there looking for the same jobs, and if the industry's in an upswing you might have a hundred jobs to go around; if times are tough, there will be a lot fewer. A tiny fraction of them are going to be directly into the left seat, and most of those will go to the chief pilot's nephew, or someone with tight connections to the company. If you don't have those connections, you've really only got two options, which are to get your instructor rating and to work the ramp or dock. Like it or not, that's reality. You can sit at home sending out resumes from your computer, but right now there are fifty guys handing out resumes in person who are willing to work in whatever capacity the operator wants, and when a flying position opens up those are the ones who get them; the CP knows those guys, knows they'll show up on time for a shift starting at 4 a.m., and knows they won't complain when they're moving box after box of cargo. They're going to have to move all that cargo when they're loading their own planes anyway, so there's no doubt about their work ethic going into it. You can act on principle and stay home until that magic left-seat job comes calling, but that's not how this industry works. There are too many pilots, and not enough jobs, so if you're not willing to go for it then you might as well give up now.
As for your position on sitting in the right seat, you're severely limiting yourself by refusing to look at those jobs. Most of the companies which upgrade from the ramp do so into the right seat, and with good reason. You will, in fact, get to handle the aircraft, and there's a huge amount you can learn from an experienced captain. You're not likely to be doing ice-strip work in a Twin Otter in Antarctica working single-pilot, but if you get on with a company doing something like that as a co-pilot you'll probably learn more than in any other job you could ever have.
It's your choice: stand on principle, or get a job. Reality is harsh, and it's unfortunate you haven't learned it already, but better to figure it out now than a few years down the road when you're still waiting for Air Canada to call. That's how it works in this country.

[Duffman]

I am sympathetic but there's no excuse for not already knowing this. The fishing lodge place somewhere near Winnipeg would more than likely want a float rating, do you have one? Without a float rating, multi or an instrument rating you're really limiting your options..

[Diadem]

I should have also said that the place advertising for 250 hours was probably getting applicants with over 1000. There are so many pilots out there that companies can pick and choose from the cream of the crop.

[skypirate88]

With having just a bare CPL with no MIFR you are limiting an already limited job market. If you are looking at SE operators it may help getting a float rating to at least be a little more marketable.

If you take a look through different airport websites you can usually find a list of operators...I think you may even access that information through provincial websites.

You should also be using your instructor. They should be able to give you some advise on where to look.

[Naossoan]

Oh don't get me wrong, I knew going into it that it's difficult to get a job at first so I'm not completely crazy in that regard.

I was told getting MIFR at this point is a waste of my money (When I'm already 20K in debt right now from my PPL/CPL) because I'm not going to get a job that will use it until I'm at least 1000+ TT.

Floats....that's another thing. I would go for that, yeah.

It's not that I refuse to fly right seat, and I know it would be a good opportunity to do that if I could it just seems so fandangled, the entire industry.

And yeah obviously I don't have a problem hauling boxes around, but working the ramp just seems so retarded to do. I mean I would do that too I don't have a problem doing that but I have heard so many places just stick people on the ramp and they never f'ing come out but are reassured that "some day" they will so that pilot sticks around groveling for the chance to fly the god damned plane while the operator has no intentions of doing this but tells them they will so they don't lose a good worker/rampie/whatever. Taken advantage of.

The job I saw near Winnipeg was a single A/C landing on a dirt strip, so no floats req'd there.

If it's like the one guy is saying there all the jobs will go to the chief's nephew or w/e the hell then why even f'ing bother in the first place. I've been told numerous times not only by my instructor and flight school but by other pilots as well that this is a pretty good time to try to get your foot in because a lot of things are going on in the industry etc.

And how am I supposed to go around handing out resumes or applying in person to every place I can? Do operators actually expect this? I'm going to drive out to Ontario or Manitoba or freakin wherever to drop off a resume and HOPE for the chance at a job? Seriously? I live in BC. Like I said I am already in a tonne of debt, how can anyone reasonably be expected to be able to do/afford that?

Would I have better luck looking for work outside of the country? I'm single, no family, no kids, no girlfriend, no attachments what so ever so I am willing to travel ANYWHERE I can get a job....

[FL320]

You have to realize that the Canadian or US industry is not worse than the orther Countries. With the flying experience you have, your best options are in the Canada.
Asia, China, africa....you have to bring something a lot more solid than 200hrs. There are thousands of LOCAL pilots that are in your situation, why would they take you instead??
Just to give you an idea, I am flying the 737 and the only answers I get from airlines in the Middle East or Asia at the moment is that i still need more experience, they have lots of application from experienced pilots from all over the world. The Economy is bad at the moment everywhere, so if you find a job on the ramp for a few month or so....just take it, make some contacts, do you MIFR and be happy.
As for the debt, we've all been there, I have been working on the ground for 6 years without flying just to refund the bank. It's really hard to go back to aviation then, I would say that less than 5% of my friends are pilots now. Time is your enemy in aviation.

[BverLuver]

Noassoan,

I am not sure whether to be shocked, saddened, or just bewildered by your posts and predicament. First of all, the search for possible employment and networking should have started LONG before ever completing the CPL because it is such a monumental task to land that first job. However, your sense of entitlement and seeming complete lack of understanding of how the Canadian "system" works in regards to hiring low time pilots is simply staggering.

There is a TON of information on this website and countless threads started by so many others in your position, the search function at the top is your friend! The common theme you will read is that $50k buys you nothing except a license to learn. Whether that's on the ground or in the right seat or one of the very lucky few who get a pic position, it's all a learning experience. Thinking otherwise (like "I guess I will do it, if I have too") suggests that you already know everything and that anything less than a captain position is an admission of failure.

I suggest your re-think your position in the industry, and see what literally hundreds or thousands of others in the exact same position as you are doing at this exact moment to secure their spot in aviation. FYI, it's way more than starting a thread complaining to the very people tasked with hiring and those that have worked very hard and had a lot of set backs to get where they are. If you hadn't said you were from BC, I would have guessed a Seneca Grad "here I am, a 200hr wonder, who's going to be the lucky company I choose to work for?"

Open your eyes, think outside the box, and don't expect anyone to just give you a spot because you asked and have "high morals". My final suggestion, use the search function and type in "road trip"! Do people, even those still in debt, find a way to do it?? 100% yes! because they want to create their own successes and are not satisfied with sitting back and waiting for that 1:10,000 chance that their phone will ring from a blindly carpet bombed Email resume.

BL

[Airmanship Police]

Well next time when I am going to a sun destination in a big jet beiing paid to do so I will remind myself that because i am sitting in the right seat sometimes, I am not flying!

Good luck with YOUR non-flying situation. MINE is just perfect!

[ant_321]

I hope you are just a troll trying to stir things up. If that is a genuine post I would suggest you cut your losses now and go do something else.

[CPLMike89]

love it so much and I just feel like the Canadian industry is crushing my soul

If you feel this way now you might be in a little over your head it's a long rough road to stability in this industry.

And how am I supposed to go around handing out resumes or applying in person to every place I can? Do operators actually expect this? I'm going to drive out to Ontario or Manitoba or freakin wherever to drop off a resume and HOPE for the chance at a job? Seriously?

YES, seriously a job is not going to come to you ranting on an internet forum. Pack what you need into your car and get on the road NOW it's hiring season. Many pilots before you have made this step and come out of it with a job. Show the initiative and be prepared to work.

Good luck

[Condorito]

Oh boy! You came to the worst possible place to ask a question about flying an airplane for a living...

I feel for you man, getting flamed on by all these bitter people. You need to understand that in Canada being a slave on the ramp (working in horrible conditions while a nice juicy carrot hangs in front of your forehead), NOT flying and being treated like crap is a totable acceptable way to "pay your dues"

Its a mentality, maybe a brainwash, who knows...

Anyway, just don't ask anymore here because it will get you nowhere.

My advice? If you can, get out of this country and seek employment elsewhere. If thats not an option, you will have to maybe get a an Instructor Rating until you have enough time to move on to the next job.

[andy.air]

@naossoan

I perfectly understand your situation. It is quite frustrating and there definitely seems to be issues with this industry. That said, if flying is the path you want to take, then there are few options out there unless you can think of a way to radically change this industry. Here is what I have learned on my journey:

1) Flight schools are always looking for people. An instructor rating is the easiest way to get you the hours to qualify for those 500-1500 hour interviews. Not for everyone, however. About $10k starting fee too.
2) There are places offering the ramp with wait times under a year. You just have to be careful on which company you choose.
3) There are THOUSANDS of 200 hour pilots looking for some means to enter the industry, most of whom are carpet bombing the email addresses of every chief pilot out there.
4) With point 3, a road trip can be beneficial in putting you in front of those thousands of people. It is still a "maybe you will get a job" thing, but it is the best option, and every chief pilot I met have told me so.
5) Chief pilots have many "spam" filters because of point 3 and 4
6) This industry is indeed about who you know. If you don't know anyone and you are new to this industry, then I recommend working the ramp, or something aviation related and start knowing some people.

This is probably the response you expected and not want to hear, but it is what it is. Finding opportunities outside the country is another option. Keep in mind though that most companies prefer to hire their own nationals.

Also, unless you are flying a single engine Cessna or some small one man machine, sitting right seat is required.

[TG]

Salut Naossoan.

With a little bit of luck and some perseverence you can make it.
I was in the same situation.....in the early 90's...

Even worst, that was at the end of July!

A CPL and a float rating.
The 5hrs Float rating proved useless as they were all asking for a bare minimum of 50hr.
I doubt this much changed. And that was right in the middle of the season anyway.


So I picked up a flight supplement and went for places doing skydiving.
The first one I stopped, they litteraly laughed at me.
Second one, I was praised as the "Messiah"
Their only pilot wasn't available for the following weekend.
And endded up never coming back!

First flying job, C-182, 10$ a flying hour.

[fish4life]

The difference between you and the other 1000's of 200 hr wonders out there and you is they are more qualified and less entitled. To be honest a road trip is almost useless to you right now because operators that would be willing to hire a 200 hr pilot even for ramp positions would like to see a MIFR (king air / metro right seat jobs ) or a float rating if they are dock hand jobs. I hate to say it but you have literally the least useless qualifications of anyone applying for those jobs as the poster above said your only hope is a sky diving gig this year then bust your ass on a MIFR in the winter and pray the industry is still hiring and try get one of those "non flying" right seat jobs.

[Shiny Side Up]

I just feel like the Canadian industry is crushing my soul and my dreams of being a pilot.

Can anyone offer any guidance?

Yes. Yes I can.

[Colonel Sanders]

Not sure this will help much, but most
people get hired because of who they
know. Not what they know.

Think about that for a while.

[zulutime]

I pressume you are young and thus inexperienced with what life is about to throw at you. Like most industries, attitude goes a long way to selling yourself. On one hand you say you'd take the ramp job (if you had to) but on the other hand you call the process stupid. That tells those who are reading your post that your attitude is less than desireable. Having a CPL with 200 hrs in your log book amounts to a glorified PPL. Only difference is your flight test required tighter tolerances. My advise would be to go get your instructors rating and work a flight school for the next few years. It will provide you with two things. One, the hours you need to go after that 1000TT position (read that as "right seat"), and two, it will expose you to the working world. I don't say this to be critical of you personally but it sounds like you need a little bit of "real world maturing". If you want to work in this industry then you have to be prepared to do whatever it takes. Good luck. From what we can all read here you're going to need it in your decision making that will hopefully take you to the next level in your new carrer.

[Naossoan]

Thank you to those who were actually trying to point me in the right direction with some actual advice.

Those who just flamed me...just because you are bitter or hate newbies or for whatever reason feel the way you do doesn't mean you need to come on here and treat someone like a piece of sh!t just for trying to figure things out.

Its not that i feel entitled, its just that I didnt understand how everything works.

At this rate i feel like it would be more worthwhile to go do grunt work in alberta for a year or two to put a down payment on my own plane and just do my own thing but at the same time i dont have any business background...

But anyway thanks again to those who tried to help. I won't even bother posting here again because apparently a lot of people here think its good to just tell new pilots to quit (probably so they have that little bit less competition which is horrendous imo).

Good luck out there!