Union at Sky

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LGHeyyy
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Re: Union at Sky

#26 Post by LGHeyyy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:07 pm

I have to agree. There are some realities of regional flying. Also, the shorter the shittle the better. We aren't hanging out in Brussels for 3 days. Anyhow, the hotels are the least of the concerns.

Look, the airline is a business, can't fault Russ for running it as such. What's going to bite him in the ass is the fact that he'll have no captains in a few years, given the available pool. They will still be able to hire FO's by just dropping requirements, but all that does is keep the right seat occupied longer as 500 hours gradually turns into 3000. I strongly doubt the upgrade requirements will drop to 1500 hours. They have to make some serious changes now to keep capts longer than 2 years or they won't have an airline at all.
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Re: Union at Sky

#27 Post by gravelpapi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:36 am

You hit it on the nail LGHeyyy. The salary of the Captains needs to go up to keep a good roster. The FO's are making more as compared to their FO Jazz and GGN counter parts making +$50 per credit hr (75 hr gaur. per month) + USA per diem flying and more block on AVG 78-83 hrs... yes they fly more thats just how it is) most making 50K their first year.They won't drop the requirements down to 1500 TT + ATPL for Captains... thats not even happening in the States and they have it worst but are getting paid more. SRA has the biggest aircraft of the regionals and that comes with slightly higher min requirements due to insurance and type of aircraft. Time will tell.
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Re: Union at Sky

#28 Post by fish4life » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:51 am

I’ve heard of sub 2000hr RJ captains at Jazz why would Sky regional be immune? The only reason why the states doesn’t have it is the law states a min of 1500hr for an FO so CPT’s will naturally have more
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Re: Union at Sky

#29 Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:57 pm

gravelpapi wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:15 pm
Really lol?? Are you expecting GGN, Jazz and SRA pilots to be at the Riz Carlton hotel lol? FYI Jazz, GGN and SRA pilots are in the same type of hotels and are all in the same big boat ....except Jazz and GGN are unionized..... unionization at GGN and Jazz has done nothing really other than lower pay scale....lower pay. No company is perfect.
Umm, no. Jazz pilots are in 4 star or better and it has to meet certain criteria for access to food as well as security.
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Re: Union at Sky

#30 Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:11 pm

gravelpapi wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:36 am
You hit it on the nail LGHeyyy. The salary of the Captains needs to go up to keep a good roster. The FO's are making more as compared to their FO Jazz and GGN counter parts making +$50 per credit hr (75 hr gaur. per month) + USA per diem flying and more block on AVG 78-83 hrs... yes they fly more thats just how it is) most making 50K their first year.They won't drop the requirements down to 1500 TT + ATPL for Captains... thats not even happening in the States and they have it worst but are getting paid more. SRA has the biggest aircraft of the regionals and that comes with slightly higher min requirements due to insurance and type of aircraft. Time will tell.
This falls under the category mine is bigger and faster with more range than yours, you’ll note the CRJ 900 is 16 feet longer than the E175.
Manufacturer Canadair
Engines 2 GE CF34-8C5 Turbofans
Cruise Speed 882 km/h (548 mi/h)
Range 2778 km (1726 m)
Cruise Altitude 10668 m (35000 ft )
Cargo Capacity 2134 kgs (4705 lbs)
Fuel Capacity 10977 l (2900 USg)
Length of Aircraft 36.4 m (119 ft 5 in)
Wing Span 24.9 m (81 ft 8 in)
Height 7.57 m (24 ft 10 in)

Manufacturer Embraer
Engines CF34-8E5A1
Cruise Speed 811 km/h (504 mi/h)
Range 2413 km (1499 m)
Cruise Altitude 10668 m (35000 ft )
Cargo Capacity 400 kgs (882 lbs)
Fuel Capacity 11677 l (3085 USg)
Length of Aircraft 31.68 m (103 ft 11 in)
Wing Span 26 m (85 ft 3 in)
Height 9.86 m (32 ft 4 in)
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Re: Union at Sky

#31 Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:21 pm

gravelpapi wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:15 pm
Really lol?? Are you expecting GGN, Jazz and SRA pilots to be at the Riz Carlton hotel lol? FYI Jazz, GGN and SRA pilots are in the same type of hotels and are all in the same big boat ....except Jazz and GGN are unionized..... unionization at GGN and Jazz has done nothing really other than lower pay scale....lower pay. No company is perfect.
Gotta love the anti union posters, the union didn’t cause lower pay, the fact the pilots like you chose to work for a union busting company caused lower wages!
You know the old saying, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem, that would be you there gravelpapi, in case you were too dense to figure it out.
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Re: Union at Sky

#32 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:49 pm

I think Jazz pilots should be the last to boast about how great a union is. ALPA or no ALPA we all have to deal with crap wages. I'm sorry, but when I was at Jazz, I saw very little value in the union. It's also fair to point out that I had very little interaction with ALPA, outside the "Meet and greet" dinner. 39K a year is garbage and ALPA should be ashamed of itself. Also Jazz pilots that voted these horrendous terms should be ashamed of themselves. I've spoken with many. They only cared about two things:

- Group 1: "This contract will take me to retirement"
- Group 2: "I'm going to Mainline, so who cares?"

So, let's not jump on SKY or GGN for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING JAZZ DID! Accept crap wages and working conditions (by comparison to previous times). We're all equally guilty and you know who wins? Mr. Rovinescu. I bet he has a nice house and a fat paycheck. Life's good for him. The man knows how to run a business with stiff competition. Too bad most of us airline employees ended up with "McJobs".

Back to the union topic... there should be no need for a union if management is REASONABLE with its workers. Of course, look at WestJet... how long did that last? 23 years?

I think the only way to save our industry and jobs is if we're united and that starts with Air Canada pilots. If they stop looking down on regional guys (Jazz, SKY) and Jazz pilots stop looking down on GGN guys etc etc we'd be better off. This industry may handle Jazz or Sky or GGN going on strike, but they can't handle all the pilots at AC, WJ, Encore, Jazz, Sky, GGN going on strike. It would paralyze the country.

Utopian dreams? Maybe... but it's the only solution I could possible think of. When we work together as a (Canadian pilots) group, instead of trying to #$*# each other over.

Hans...
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Re: Union at Sky

#33 Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:10 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:49 pm
I think Jazz pilots should be the last to boast about how great a union is. ALPA or no ALPA we all have to deal with crap wages. I'm sorry, but when I was at Jazz, I saw very little value in the union. It's also fair to point out that I had very little interaction with ALPA, outside the "Meet and greet" dinner. 39K a year is garbage and ALPA should be ashamed of itself. Also Jazz pilots that voted these horrendous terms should be ashamed of themselves. I've spoken with many. They only cared about two things:

- Group 1: "This contract will take me to retirement"
- Group 2: "I'm going to Mainline, so who cares?"

So, let's not jump on SKY or GGN for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING JAZZ DID! Accept crap wages and working conditions (by comparison to previous times). We're all equally guilty and you know who wins? Mr. Rovinescu. I bet he has a nice house and a fat paycheck. Life's good for him. The man knows how to run a business with stiff competition. Too bad most of us airline employees ended up with "McJobs".

Back to the union topic... there should be no need for a union if management is REASONABLE with its workers. Of course, look at WestJet... how long did that last? 23 years?

I think the only way to save our industry and jobs is if we're united and that starts with Air Canada pilots. If they stop looking down on regional guys (Jazz, SKY) and Jazz pilots stop looking down on GGN guys etc etc we'd be better off. This industry may handle Jazz or Sky or GGN going on strike, but they can't handle all the pilots at AC, WJ, Encore, Jazz, Sky, GGN going on strike. It would paralyze the country.

Utopian dreams? Maybe... but it's the only solution I could possible think of. When we work together as a (Canadian pilots) group, instead of trying to #$*# each other over.

Hans...
Ok Hans, once again thank you for your choice of leaving Jazz, it does two things.
1. Removes a cancerous attitude from our ranks.
2. Sends a message to management that they need to do better.(screening)
Next, I know this has been explained to you before, no contract no fn jobs, we would all be working for SR at their rates so yah I said yes.
There was a third category of Jazz pilots by the way and I believe the biggest group.
Group 3. If pilots refuse to come, wages will go up.
So thank you for perpetuating the problem and supporting the lower wages, I suppose you’re applying to swoop right now given your lack of integrity.
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Re: Union at Sky

#34 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:18 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:10 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:49 pm
I think Jazz pilots should be the last to boast about how great a union is. ALPA or no ALPA we all have to deal with crap wages. I'm sorry, but when I was at Jazz, I saw very little value in the union. It's also fair to point out that I had very little interaction with ALPA, outside the "Meet and greet" dinner. 39K a year is garbage and ALPA should be ashamed of itself. Also Jazz pilots that voted these horrendous terms should be ashamed of themselves. I've spoken with many. They only cared about two things:

- Group 1: "This contract will take me to retirement"
- Group 2: "I'm going to Mainline, so who cares?"

So, let's not jump on SKY or GGN for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING JAZZ DID! Accept crap wages and working conditions (by comparison to previous times). We're all equally guilty and you know who wins? Mr. Rovinescu. I bet he has a nice house and a fat paycheck. Life's good for him. The man knows how to run a business with stiff competition. Too bad most of us airline employees ended up with "McJobs".

Back to the union topic... there should be no need for a union if management is REASONABLE with its workers. Of course, look at WestJet... how long did that last? 23 years?

I think the only way to save our industry and jobs is if we're united and that starts with Air Canada pilots. If they stop looking down on regional guys (Jazz, SKY) and Jazz pilots stop looking down on GGN guys etc etc we'd be better off. This industry may handle Jazz or Sky or GGN going on strike, but they can't handle all the pilots at AC, WJ, Encore, Jazz, Sky, GGN going on strike. It would paralyze the country.

Utopian dreams? Maybe... but it's the only solution I could possible think of. When we work together as a (Canadian pilots) group, instead of trying to #$*# each other over.

Hans...
Ok Hans, once again thank you for your choice of leaving Jazz, it does two things.
1. Removes a cancerous attitude from our ranks.
2. Sends a message to management that they need to do better.(screening)
Next, I know this has been explained to you before, no contract no fn jobs, we would all be working for SR at their rates so yah I said yes.
There was a third category of Jazz pilots by the way and I believe the biggest group.
Group 3. If pilots refuse to come, wages will go up.
So thank you for perpetuating the problem and supporting the lower wages, I suppose you’re applying to swoop right now given your lack of integrity.
Ah, of course. "mbav8r" had to comment on my post. What do you mean "their rates"? The rate where they pay their pilots $10 more per credit hour than Jazz does? Buddy, has the cold in MB gotten to your head? I'm not defending Sky or GGN. I think you need to read what I wrote a few more times. How have I perpetuated the problem? I left Jazz for a corporate job that pays me way more than Jazz did (minus the travel benefits). If anything, me quitting should send a message to management that they need to offer better conditions; overall, not just money. You won't see me at Sky or GGN or Swoop. Your comments are worthy of an "internet troll".
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Re: Union at Sky

#35 Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:55 pm

I responded to a post of yours which was a response to my post, now that that’s covered, time for a history lesson.
When SR started, their wages in both seats were less than Jazz, Captain was significantly lower, then along came GGN and lowered the bar even further. They raise the wages after the fact to attract pilots and then boast how it’s higher than Jazz, then fear monger the pilots, telling them if it goes too high they won’t be the answer anymore, sound about right. Keep on defending that.
GGN was unionized at the time of the RJ however the unionized pilots voted NO and their president went behind closed doors and signed the agreement, he is now at AC.
As for you personally, did you knowingly apply to Jazz and accept a job? Would you still be at Jazz if you weren’t hired at the corporate job?
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Re: Union at Sky

#36 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:45 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:55 pm
I responded to a post of yours which was a response to my post, now that that’s covered, time for a history lesson.
When SR started, their wages in both seats were less than Jazz, Captain was significantly lower, then along came GGN and lowered the bar even further. They raise the wages after the fact to attract pilots and then boast how it’s higher than Jazz, then fear monger the pilots, telling them if it goes too high they won’t be the answer anymore, sound about right. Keep on defending that.
GGN was unionized at the time of the RJ however the unionized pilots voted NO and their president went behind closed doors and signed the agreement, he is now at AC.
As for you personally, did you knowingly apply to Jazz and accept a job? Would you still be at Jazz if you weren’t hired at the corporate job?
I am not sure why we're making this about Jazz or about ME. My comments here have to do with the fact that I personally don't see the value in a union as much as I used to. ALPA is the best example where a powerful UNION seems to be more interested in getting "a contract" than actually serving its members in a meaningful way. Yes, ALPA can only do so much, I have been "educated" on that topic, right here on AvCanada, and it's the reps / members that have the final say in a contract or agreement. Sky Regional can be a good place to work at, if all you care about is the "Stepping Stone" type of company. Facts are facts: You get more money at Sky and you fly better planes. I would also argue that you could get a better schedule as a "junior pilot".

Yes, the race to the bottom is there and it makes very little difference if you're at Regional 1, Regional 2 or Regional 3... Pick your company.

FOR THE RECORD: I AM A STRONG BELIEVER THAT NO REGIONAL AIRLINE SHOULD BE A "STEPPING STONE". IT'S A SHAME IT GOT TO THAT POINT

(P.S. Would I be at Jazz if I would not have been hired at my current corporate job? Of course! I have bills to pay and kids to take care of. I didn't hate Jazz, regardless of what people think. I went there because I thought it would be something else: the "old Jazz", but I found out it wasn't and I started looking elsewhere. I applied at a number of places before accepting this job, one that could still let me live just outside the GTA, while offering enough money to afford a decent lifestyle. Is it perfect? No job is, and so far I'm happier, but don't for a moment think that I'm not bitter about having to quit Jazz. I didn't want to...)
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Re: Union at Sky

#37 Post by confusedalot » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:09 pm

A little off topic but I am perplexed at the notion that Jazz is a stepping stone outfit. I started as a dash 8 direct entry at one of the Jazz precursors in 1988 and left in 1992, and I had a huge problem making my mind up about actually leaving, I was giving up alot. Had I not left, I would have ended up within the very top of the seniority ranks by now making a very respectable income with a pretty good and solid bank account on top of fully paid property, hey maybe even a boat!. The guys I know who stayed and who I used to meet in the terminal building every once in a while appear to confirm my view, we had some pretty good discussions about it.

Some who left found success, mostly overseas and far from home, and some did not. In my case, all that happened was a stumble from one bankrupt canadian big jet operator to another, it's always the same recycled pop cans that end up in the same places so to speak. I did OK at best, but I would be better off had I stayed. And of all things, ended up at....Skyregional, not by choice, by necessity.

I perceive Jazz to be a potential career operator, someone tell me why I am wrong.
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Re: Union at Sky

#38 Post by HansDietrich » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:08 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:09 pm
A little off topic but I am perplexed at the notion that Jazz is a stepping stone outfit. I started as a dash 8 direct entry at one of the Jazz precursors in 1988 and left in 1992, and I had a huge problem making my mind up about actually leaving, I was giving up alot. Had I not left, I would have ended up within the very top of the seniority ranks by now making a very respectable income with a pretty good and solid bank account on top of fully paid property, hey maybe even a boat!. The guys I know who stayed and who I used to meet in the terminal building every once in a while appear to confirm my view, we had some pretty good discussions about it.

Some who left found success, mostly overseas and far from home, and some did not. In my case, all that happened was a stumble from one bankrupt canadian big jet operator to another, it's always the same recycled pop cans that end up in the same places so to speak. I did OK at best, but I would be better off had I stayed. And of all things, ended up at....Skyregional, not by choice, by necessity.

I perceive Jazz to be a potential career operator, someone tell me why I am wrong.
You're both right and wrong. You're RIGHT in the sense that if you would've stuck it out at Jazz, you would have been on a different pay scale / contract / pension / benefits than the new hires. The way Jazz is now, it's two separate companies. The "A" scale and the "B" scale. The "old guys" there have it pretty sweet. Good pay, good pension, good schedule...

And absolutely, the goal of AC was to make the regionals a stepping stone. The max pay at Jazz is what? 150K a year? It used to be a lot more. A captain at Jazz personally told me he makes close to 200K a year. Was he lying? I believed him, even if he was.
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Re: Union at Sky

#39 Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:17 pm

Confused, the top pay at Jazz is exactly the same, exactly to the penny for all Jazz Pilots. The new contract added 3 years to the bottom, so it now takes 3 years to get to what used to be year 1 but the top of scale is the same. The next change is the DC pension for new hires and no years of service for left seat pay the rest of the contract is the same but you know kids these days, they want everything right fucking now and it the old guys fault they can’t have it. Upgrades in under 2 years isn’t enough for some apparently.
Hans, the discussion about Jazz is appropriate here as the fact that SR has no union is directly related to why you weren’t happy at Jazz, not in a round about way Hans, directly. The top pay did not used to be more, there has been no cut in pay for at least 20 years, so as for used to make more, no pilot was making 200k without significant OT. Why do you feel the need to exaggerate?
Pay/pension/YOS toward captain are the only changes, the rest of the contract including benefits is the same, as for schedule, my 12 years only gets me reserve and not even the days I want, you know what seniority is don’t you, the longer you stay the better things get or so I’m told
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Re: Union at Sky

#40 Post by DanWEC » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:24 am

I've been on all sides of labour and management, in both union and non-union shops.
Many unions, including ALPA, recruit based on basic sales and propaganda tactics. This targets the workers with the grudges, regardless of their validity.

It's great to beleive in something, but by reading the ALPA recruitment page, it reeks of anti-managment propaganda, and hits soft spots like airport security- but most people know ALPA can't do a damn thing about that. Hm.

A union should be a great thing for workers, but unfortunately their current aim is to cause a divisive culture between labour and management. Thing is, if they didn't have this angle, they'd be more respected.

Do I think Sky needs a Union? Tough call.
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Re: Union at Sky

#41 Post by Mapleflt » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:22 pm

Please consider this,

Any union is a business that needs growth; as a business it responds to it's majority shareholders, will you be in the majority !!! Do you want to control your TOE or be a minority shareholder ??

Mapleflt (I've had this handle since 2009, long before Skyregional)
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Re: Union at Sky

#42 Post by Cavalier44 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:29 am

Mapleflt wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:22 pm
Please consider this,

Any union is a business that needs growth; as a business it responds to it's majority shareholders, will you be in the majority !!! Do you want to control your TOE or be a minority shareholder ??

Mapleflt (I've had this handle since 2009, long before Skyregional)
This is a ridiculous argument. If you are working for Sky Regional, I’m not sure how you can assert that Sky Regional pilots have any control over our TOE when this is blatantly false. The company makes changes to the TOE as it suits them and often without warning, and we have no one negotiating on the behalf of the entire pilot group for the betterment of our TOE.

The entire purpose of having a union is to have a legally binding agreement that the company is forced to adhere to and cannot change when it becomes inconvenient for them.

As for this Sky Regional/Jazz/Georgian divisiveness, this is exactly what the management here encourages and feeds upon. They’re creating a false “us vs. them” mentality, whereby they lead you to believe that if labour becomes too expensive here, Air Canada will just shift it to another regional carrier with a cheaper CPA. We need to consider a common union with harmonized working conditions for all Air Canada Express pilots; as a unified group under the Express banner we can all fight together for improved working conditions and prevent this continual race to undercut each other in order to gain favour from Air Canada.
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Re: Union at Sky

#43 Post by DanWEC » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:09 am

In a dream world every single commercial pilot would be part of a union, with minimum pay tiered based on the type of operation. It would eliminate the race to the bottom.
I suppose having all the express carriers under ALPA is a good start. ACPA supports it.

Each crew with AC Express on the side of their airplane having the same GDO's, same pay scales on type, same benefits.... and nobody able to drive it down. Sounds pretty good to me!
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Re: Union at Sky

#44 Post by confusedalot » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:50 pm

I agree and support industry level wages for everyone. I wish I was a benefactor of such wages.

Since this a skyregional thread, do some research on the principal players. Russ Payson, who operated skyservice corporate and airline, is a personal friend of Rovinescu.

Figure out the rest..............

When I had the misfortune of losing my job and ending up at skyregional for purposes of survival, I actually got an unsettling debreifing after one of my pic line indoc flights. After the regular flying debrief thing, I was informed of how Mr. Payson had little if any regard for pilots, since, in his Skyservice airline days, the pilot group excluded his presence at negotiations which he took as rather insulting. Appears that he was actually sympathetic to pilots beforehand and actually paid his former skyservice airline drivers pretty well. The honeymoon was over in a big hurry.

This is what you are dealing with.
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Re: Union at Sky

#45 Post by pigboat » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:40 am

Ladies and Gents,

You need a Union. It will take at least 4 committed pilots to try and form one. To start a Union will cause those doing the recruitment considerable risk of retribution from your employer. They (the employer) almost never go quietly into the night while the pilots organize. Sometimes,....usually the Employer is ruthless in trying to stop a Union from forming.

Not everyone is going to make it over to A.C. If you want to make Sky a career with proper pay, working conditions, and all those things including protection from improper discipline; YOU NEED A UNION.

If you find the pilots to lead the charge, ALPA or even ACPA has been know to help with seed money to get started in the task. You will never get a fraction of what you need or want to make it a Career without the strength of a united pilot group.

As Ben Franklin once said, " If we do not hang in together, we will surely hang separately."
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Re: Union at Sky

#46 Post by confusedalot » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:46 pm

There was one guy based in yyz that I heard about who tried a few years ago, circa 2013, 2014, 2015, can't remember, but I do know he was promptly fired. Apparently the justification for the firing was that the person in question did not share the skyregional values........... he got another job, took legal action, but was promptly dismissed by the legal system. We live in canada.

Yep, skyregional needs a union. Was there, no longer there. Job was OK, but certainly not great by any measure, they expect Air Canada performance at less than half the cost of an air canada employee. The sad thing in all of this is that the express carriers actually subsidize the mothercorp people.
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Re: Union at Sky

#47 Post by Art Garfunkel » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:49 am

I don't see anyone asking for a Ritz Carlton. Just asking for a safe hotel where you feel comfortable going for a walk and getting some fresh air. Sky Regional's wellness program suggests strongly to go outside as it is good for our mental state.
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Re: Union at Sky

#48 Post by Mr. North » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:34 am

As an Encore pilot who witnessed the union drive at WestJet and then participated in our own, I cannot stress enough how important ALPA is to YOU as a line pilot, your peers, the company, and lastly our profession.

First and foremost is the legal liability protection they offer, yes I'm talking about that famous Orange Card. If you are involved in any safety related incident and when safely able to do so, calling the ALPA hotline on the Orange card sets into motion a tidal wave of support and guidance. There is an entire air safety department that is there to assist you during your most vulnerable time. Since we certified last December, our pilots have called the hotline twice. It's value cannot be understated.

In addition to this, you have access to everyday support via your ALPA reps. In talking with our reps, they are constantly busy representing pilots over disciplinary, training, scheduling, and payment issues... the list is endless. It's important to understand that ALPA reps aren't out to ensure the best outcome for pilots at all costs, on the contrary, their mandate is to support pilots by ensuring the company plays by their own rules. There is also a well developed pilot assistance program for anyone experiencing addictions or psychological issues. Pilot assistance may not be a very "popular" program but I can assure you of it's regular (behind the scene) employment, it saves careers - if not lives. ALPA medical is also available to provide support to anyone dealing with aviation medical issues. No one anticipates going through the labyrinth of regaining their transport medical until it's gone. ALPA medical has their own doctors and lawyers that routinely guide pilots in their efforts to regain flight status. There's loss of licence insurance and even car insurance (which has saved me a bundle).

The company stands to benefit too. A united pilot group under ALPA negotiates clearly with one voice. Securing a fair contract is in everyone's interest and will go a long way to recruit and retain pilots. Your negotiations will be completed by SkyRegional pilots, with the support of ALPA legal and finance. The price or cost of every proposal your group puts forward will have been vetted by the best industry analysts. No more begging in the dark for something the company says is too expensive. Instead, your negotiating team will know with certainty the cost of your proposals vs. what the company can afford. The confidence that provides in negations is unparalleled. The company will be reluctant to admit but in the long run, a professional ALPA shop will save them a tremendous amount of money. Nevermind pilot rention and training, the air safety experience and pilot assistance programs alone will dwarf whatever mickey mouse programs they run in house. The amount of resources ALPA pilots can bring to an organisation are vast, as Encore pilots we are only just beginning to tap into them.

Now think about our profession. It's only a matter of time before ACPA joins ALPA, at which point we will be the largest unified voice for professional pilots across the country. We will now have a unified voice where there once was none. Fatigue, the integration of drones, security, these are just some of the issues of which we have been excluded until now. I'll admit, it's easy to think that one's position at a regional is transitory, and that there's no real need to improve conditions. You are wrong in this belief. The top end of our careers are limited to the conditions (comparators) at the bottom. For our careers to prosper at the top, we need to improve working conditions across the board. A strong tailwind pushes all aircraft.

Look where the wind is blowing, pilots are unifying across the country. There is no precedent. It's time we altered our course, from a ruinous history of undercutting each other, to a new heading of greater prosperity and cooperation.

I'll close by reminding everyone that ALPA cannot promise anything in advance of certification. The only thing they can promise is proper representation, at which point it comes down to what you and the larger pilot group desires. A union is only as good as it's' members. So I strongly encourage each and every one of you to become informed. And once you're informed, to become involved. As with everything in life, you get what you put into it. I'm here to tell you that ALPA is certainly worth every ounce of investment.
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Re: Union at Sky

#49 Post by AvifiskAlly » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:17 pm

Mr. North wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:34 am
As an Encore pilot who witnessed the union drive at WestJet and then participated in our own, I cannot stress enough how important ALPA is to YOU as a line pilot, your peers, the company, and lastly our profession.

First and foremost is the legal liability protection they offer, yes I'm talking about that famous Orange Card. If you are involved in any safety related incident and when safely able to do so, calling the ALPA hotline on the Orange card sets into motion a tidal wave of support and guidance. There is an entire air safety department that is there to assist you during your most vulnerable time. Since we certified last December, our pilots have called the hotline twice. It's value cannot be understated.

In addition to this, you have access to everyday support via your ALPA reps. In talking with our reps, they are constantly busy representing pilots over disciplinary, training, scheduling, and payment issues... the list is endless. It's important to understand that ALPA reps aren't out to ensure the best outcome for pilots at all costs, on the contrary, their mandate is to support pilots by ensuring the company plays by their own rules. There is also a well developed pilot assistance program for anyone experiencing addictions or psychological issues. Pilot assistance may not be a very "popular" program but I can assure you of it's regular (behind the scene) employment, it saves careers - if not lives. ALPA medical is also available to provide support to anyone dealing with aviation medical issues. No one anticipates going through the labyrinth of regaining their transport medical until it's gone. ALPA medical has their own doctors and lawyers that routinely guide pilots in their efforts to regain flight status. There's loss of licence insurance and even car insurance (which has saved me a bundle).

The company stands to benefit too. A united pilot group under ALPA negotiates clearly with one voice. Securing a fair contract is in everyone's interest and will go a long way to recruit and retain pilots. Your negotiations will be completed by SkyRegional pilots, with the support of ALPA legal and finance. The price or cost of every proposal your group puts forward will have been vetted by the best industry analysts. No more begging in the dark for something the company says is too expensive. Instead, your negotiating team will know with certainty the cost of your proposals vs. what the company can afford. The confidence that provides in negations is unparalleled. The company will be reluctant to admit but in the long run, a professional ALPA shop will save them a tremendous amount of money. Nevermind pilot rention and training, the air safety experience and pilot assistance programs alone will dwarf whatever mickey mouse programs they run in house. The amount of resources ALPA pilots can bring to an organisation are vast, as Encore pilots we are only just beginning to tap into them.

Now think about our profession. It's only a matter of time before ACPA joins ALPA, at which point we will be the largest unified voice for professional pilots across the country. We will now have a unified voice where there once was none. Fatigue, the integration of drones, security, these are just some of the issues of which we have been excluded until now. I'll admit, it's easy to think that one's position at a regional is transitory, and that there's no real need to improve conditions. You are wrong in this belief. The top end of our careers are limited to the conditions (comparators) at the bottom. For our careers to prosper at the top, we need to improve working conditions across the board. A strong tailwind pushes all aircraft.

Look where the wind is blowing, pilots are unifying across the country. There is no precedent. It's time we altered our course, from a ruinous history of undercutting each other, to a new heading of greater prosperity and cooperation.

I'll close by reminding everyone that ALPA cannot promise anything in advance of certification. The only thing they can promise is proper representation, at which point it comes down to what you and the larger pilot group desires. A union is only as good as it's' members. So I strongly encourage each and every one of you to become informed. And once you're informed, to become involved. As with everything in life, you get what you put into it. I'm here to tell you that ALPA is certainly worth every ounce of investment.
You seriously sound like you have been in the industry for about a minute. Really, wow. That’s some funny stuff. A bit embarrassed for you.
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Re: Union at Sky

#50 Post by Mr. North » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:15 pm

I appreciate your thoughtful contribution. One needs to look no further than your post history to realize who should be embarrassed.
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