Union at Sky

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hunkerdown
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by hunkerdown »

I am with cavalier44 and confusedalot, I have worked for no union and for a union and feel that with union it sets the WAWCON clearly and without the chance for one sided changes. In addition, the pilot will not be part of the negotiation without being in a union because the company management team knows they have the final word on things so the only 'give' is that which is given is at their pleasure.

The main downside to a union is that it is only as good as the MEC. If the pilots are apathetic once the union is in, then the MEC becomes too powerful and we all know about the relationship between 'power' and 'corruption'. The MEC has to be held to everyone's wishes and concerns or it becomes a problem in of itself. There is always a danger of the union leaders becoming self serving, but only if the membership lets it.
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hunkerdown
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by hunkerdown »

I hear the card drive is now on...any idea how it is going?
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confusedalot
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by confusedalot »

I hope success. Worried that many may not want to rock the boat so that their flow through to air canada would not be put in jeopardy.
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by Alcoholism »

confusedalot wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:31 pm I hope success. Worried that many may not want to rock the boat so that their flow through to air canada would not be put in jeopardy.
I would hope no one would think that, as that would be absurd. It's a completely confidential process. AC already pulls from 2 express carriers with ALPA. Anyone delusional enough to think voting in ALPA would effect their wet dream at AC should get out of aviation.
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confusedalot
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by confusedalot »

I could write about many anecdotes, many of them, about the mindset of the newhires. Not the old guys who are not in the lottery game, and would not get hired in a billion years, but the newhires.

So I will give you only one of many experiences I had the pleasure to witness.

A person hired maybe two months ago, explaining to me for no particular reason, below 10000 feet, that this was not their last stop and they were destined for better things. I really needed that below 10K concentrating on the traffic and the approach profile. As the PF, and by circumstance as the PIC. Funny how the old guys are at times criticized about crm but are the very ones who say ''please and thank you'' the most just to keep things on the rails.

You guessed it, he got the jackpot job.

As stated above, many more of those kinds of outlook are in the ranks.

So yes, the air canada carrot does in fact play a huge part in the big scheme of things.
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Xonga013
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by Xonga013 »

confusedalot wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:26 pm I could write about many anecdotes, many of them, about the mindset of the newhires. Not the old guys who are not in the lottery game, and would not get hired in a billion years, but the newhires.

So I will give you only one of many experiences I had the pleasure to witness.

A person hired maybe two months ago, explaining to me for no particular reason, below 10000 feet, that this was not their last stop and they were destined for better things. I really needed that below 10K concentrating on the traffic and the approach profile. As the PF, and by circumstance as the PIC. Funny how the old guys are at times criticized about crm but are the very ones who say ''please and thank you'' the most just to keep things on the rails.

You guessed it, he got the jackpot job.

As stated above, many more of those kinds of outlook are in the ranks.

So yes, the air canada carrot does in fact play a huge part in the big scheme of things.
2 months at SR and already off to the big airline???
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confusedalot
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by confusedalot »

No no, they have to do their minimum service before they get on with ac, I think it is 2 years. The attitude though is that is is just a stepping stone, so many could not be bothered to rock the boat so to speak. Bit of a shame since not all will get the job offer, leaving the leftovers at somewhat sub par conditions. It is what it is.
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by Xonga013 »

confusedalot wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:25 am No no, they have to do their minimum service before they get on with ac, I think it is 2 years. The attitude though is that is is just a stepping stone, so many could not be bothered to rock the boat so to speak. Bit of a shame since not all will get the job offer, leaving the leftovers at somewhat sub par conditions. It is what it is.
It’s too bad it’s become a stepping stone.
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digits_
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by digits_ »

confusedalot wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:25 am No no, they have to do their minimum service before they get on with ac, I think it is 2 years. The attitude though is that is is just a stepping stone, so many could not be bothered to rock the boat so to speak. Bit of a shame since not all will get the job offer, leaving the leftovers at somewhat sub par conditions. It is what it is.
Well yeah, if that's how everything is advertised, and if the AC carrot is used to lure people in, how can you blame pilots that they admit they want to go to AC? It's one of the big things that is wrong with Canadian aviation. Basically every job except for the major airlines, has fairly sub par wages "because everyone leaves anyway" and "people don't want to stay here". It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If the biggest plus of your company is that it makes it easier to work somewhere else, you might be doing something wrong as a company.
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by Stinky »

If the biggest plus of your company is that it makes it easier to work somewhere else, you might be doing something wrong as a company.
I would think the opposite. They're doing something very right by using something that costs them nothing as a form of compensation.
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digits_
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by digits_ »

Stinky wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:20 pm
If the biggest plus of your company is that it makes it easier to work somewhere else, you might be doing something wrong as a company.
I would think the opposite. They're doing something very right by using something that costs them nothing as a form of compensation.
Depends. If people leave quickly and you have to spend lots of money on initial training costs, it might be better to spend those costs on more experiened pilots the second year so they stay longer.
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by AvifiskAlly »

digits_ wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:40 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:20 pm
If the biggest plus of your company is that it makes it easier to work somewhere else, you might be doing something wrong as a company.
I would think the opposite. They're doing something very right by using something that costs them nothing as a form of compensation.
Depends. If people leave quickly and you have to spend lots of money on initial training costs, it might be better to spend those costs on more experiened pilots the second year so they stay longer.

Well you should be looking at it from the full AC side. Every express pilot that goes to AC is worth two new recruits into Express. AC gets a known pilot they get to keep wages in check at Express and make it a training ground. AC certainly does not want Express to be a career destination for anyone. The economics given the labour market are simply not there. The need and want the seats at Express to be used for progression.
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by DropTanks »

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Cavalier44
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by Cavalier44 »

We received an ALPA email on Friday from the organizing committee which states “[the] drive is very close to completion.” It’s hard to quantify but hopefully that means good news for us pro-union guys. Things have been pretty quiet lately on the card drive front so hopefully things are still in motion.
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rudder
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by rudder »

Everybody else is joining ALPA..... even ACPA :roll:

Do the SKY pilots really want to be the odd man/woman out?

You can either be in the room for the dialogue or standing outside the room waiting to see what was decided (by others). Seems like a no brainer to me.
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radarvectors
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by radarvectors »

Not only is it outside of the room for general discussions, the trickle down (if Sky doesn't unionize) is likely to be reflected in whatever they are calling the PMA these days.

A unionized shop will be partial to other carriers that have helped negotiate better wawcon for everyone. The opposite can be said for carriers that have helped perpetuate the nasty trend this industry has of feeding our young to the wolves.

While I cannot be certain that Sky pilots run the risk of being excluded from the next revision to the PMA, I can say that if they are included, all Sky pilots will be at the bottom of the seniority for their respective PIT course.

There is a belief that if Sky Regional pilots unionize, the company will shut down. My question is, where in the world would more pilots be found to fly 25 aircraft on existing Air Canada routes that have been busy when Air Canada cannot even fill out their own seniority lists?

Unionization isn't about crippling a company, it's about the greater good for us as a pilot group and setting a standard of professionalism and respect among all of our peers. When Jazz goes into a CA negotiation, management will use Sky Regional as the comparative salary, same goes for Georgian and even mainline. Let's all get on the same page and stop trying to reach the ceiling when the floor keeps getting further and further away. We are only hurting ourselves.

Let's get back to this being a respectable industry and have some commradie, respect our peers (it doesn't matter who you fly for, we all face the same weather, ATC issues, 14 hour days) and do our part to be a unified voice!
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yycinformer
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by yycinformer »

Isn't Sky the best paying regional at $49.35/hr? And have a commuter schedule? And they don't have beat up airplanes. Based on the forums here, you don't see/hear the bitching and complaining like everywhere else. That's gotta mean something.

Hoping they'll take over the jet flying from Jazz in YYC and open a base here :mrgreen:
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mbav8r
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by mbav8r »

yycinformer wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:23 pm Isn't Sky the best paying regional at $49.35/hr? And have a commuter schedule? And they don't have beat up airplanes. Based on the forums here, you don't see/hear the bitching and complaining like everywhere else. That's gotta mean something.

Hoping they'll take over the jet flying from Jazz in YYC and open a base here :mrgreen:
Typical pilot thinking, starting pay has improved since SR undercut Jazz, long term however Jazz is still leaps and bounds ahead.
Fortunately for Jazz pilots out west, the Embraer 175 is not a great mountainous performer.
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by yycinformer »

mbav8r wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:52 am
yycinformer wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:23 pm Isn't Sky the best paying regional at $49.35/hr? And have a commuter schedule? And they don't have beat up airplanes. Based on the forums here, you don't see/hear the bitching and complaining like everywhere else. That's gotta mean something.

Hoping they'll take over the jet flying from Jazz in YYC and open a base here :mrgreen:
Fortunately for Jazz pilots out west, the Embraer 175 is not a great mountainous performer.
Only a matter of time before that probably changes. Horizon, Sky West and Compass all operate the 175 across the rocks to YYC etc
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Re: Union at Sky

Post by mbav8r »

yycinformer wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:39 pm
mbav8r wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:52 am
yycinformer wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:23 pm Isn't Sky the best paying regional at $49.35/hr? And have a commuter schedule? And they don't have beat up airplanes. Based on the forums here, you don't see/hear the bitching and complaining like everywhere else. That's gotta mean something.

Hoping they'll take over the jet flying from Jazz in YYC and open a base here :mrgreen:
Fortunately for Jazz pilots out west, the Embraer 175 is not a great mountainous performer.
Only a matter of time before that probably changes. Horizon, Sky West and Compass all operate the 175 across the rocks to YYC etc
Jazz made a good decision turning you down!
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