Potential Strike Topic?

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by derateNO »

It was pretty clear in the flow agreement that you still have to be qualified. And right now that means 2000 hours and an ATPL. If AC has taken 90% of everyone with those requirements who actually wants to come, they have met their obligation even if it's below 60%.

It's also very easy for them to change the OTS requirements to 3000 hours and 500 hours 705 CA time for example and now all the Jazz candidates must meet the same requirements. If there are none left, they can go all OTS with no consequences if there's no one that meets the requirements.

The only stipulation that really matters is the OTS requirements can not be less than the Jazz requirements.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 691
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by rxl »

rudder wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:48 am Perhaps AC should be doing the interview/medical/background check for Jazz new-hires.

Perhaps a job offer from Jazz should become a de facto (but conditional) job offer for AC.

The US carriers have figured this all out. Why is it so complicated and confusing at Jazz/AC?
Makes perfect sense. Do we really need to interview, test, do medical exams and background checks X2?? Seems like a waste of time and resources. More than one way to skin this particular cat and also to deal with any hiring deficits.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by mbav8r »

derateNO wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:08 pm It was pretty clear in the flow agreement that you still have to be qualified. And right now that means 2000 hours and an ATPL. If AC has taken 90% of everyone with those requirements who actually wants to come, they have met their obligation even if it's below 60%.

It's also very easy for them to change the OTS requirements to 3000 hours and 500 hours 705 CA time for example and now all the Jazz candidates must meet the same requirements. If there are none left, they can go all OTS with no consequences if there's no one that meets the requirements.

The only stipulation that really matters is the OTS requirements can not be less than the Jazz requirements.
As for the 22 pilot deficit, it was based on qualified candidates who applied. The rest is correct but would be seen as another time when AC pulled the bait and switch.
Fool me twice, shame on me!
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
GATRKGA
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by GATRKGA »

rudder wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:48 am Perhaps AC should be doing the interview/medical/background check for Jazz new-hires.

Perhaps a job offer from Jazz should become a de facto (but conditional) job offer for AC.

The US carriers have figured this all out. Why is it so complicated and confusing at Jazz/AC?
Ask your ACPA rep why that's a problem. :smt040
---------- ADS -----------
 
rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 691
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by rxl »

GATRKGA wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:58 pm
rudder wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:48 am Perhaps AC should be doing the interview/medical/background check for Jazz new-hires.

Perhaps a job offer from Jazz should become a de facto (but conditional) job offer for AC.

The US carriers have figured this all out. Why is it so complicated and confusing at Jazz/AC?
Ask your ACPA rep why that's a problem. :smt040
ACPA guarantees seniority numbers to the 60% of new hires that come from Jazz now.
Wouldn't this give them even more control over the process?
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by rudder »

GATRKGA wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:58 pm
rudder wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:48 am Perhaps AC should be doing the interview/medical/background check for Jazz new-hires.

Perhaps a job offer from Jazz should become a de facto (but conditional) job offer for AC.

The US carriers have figured this all out. Why is it so complicated and confusing at Jazz/AC?
Ask your ACPA rep why that's a problem. :smt040
There have been a couple of historical instances where the AC pilots allowed for reserved numbers for regional pilots that had been offered mainline PIT courses. Once during the mid to late 1990’s and then again with PML 1.0 in 2015.

If Express falters then it affects the broader commercial plan. Look at the impact that the GGN operation had on the brand and operational performance, and the GGN operation was a small fraction of the Express flight inventory. AC has a vested interest. Perhaps that can be bundled in with the long list of wants that ACPA has.

Nothing will happen overnight but the reality is that neither progression at Express nor progression at mainline are optimized. It is even questionable whether status quo is sustainable. Looking at the restricted course rights system at mainline along with the 4 year flat pay would be appropriate if considering a more orderly migration system of pilots from Express to mainline that increases relevant experience levels at both carriers.

Giving reserved seniority numbers/course deferral rights to Express pilots would allow AC to hire a higher proportion of more experienced OTS pilots during a time frame when that is extremely relevant.
---------- ADS -----------
 
GATRKGA
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by GATRKGA »

Exactly!

AC could hinder a lot of issues here if they just streamlined their express -> ac process. Makes me wonder why this hasn't been done already. What is the cog in the wheel holding it up?

Is there actually any valid reason why a guy with good training record, good attitude, great skills, and 1000 hours in the AC system with AC dispatch, stoc, fplans, passengers as a commander isn't a good fit as an FO, and heck even a DEC at AC the way these bids are going? I am actually curious.
---------- ADS -----------
 
derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by derateNO »

Ask ACPA.
---------- ADS -----------
 
flyer 1492
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:55 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by flyer 1492 »

Just so everyone is clear.

As long as you spend 2 years at Jazz, have 2000 hours, have an ATPL you can apply to be interviewed at Air Canada. Air Canada will interview 90% of the pilots and 60% will be offered a position.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Dash.Trash
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:48 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by Dash.Trash »

flyer 1492 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:45 pm Just so everyone is clear.

As long as you spend 2 years at Jazz, have 2000 hours, have an ATPL you can apply to be interviewed at Air Canada. Air Canada will interview 90% of the pilots and 60% will be offered a position.
Not quite.

60% of new hires each year at AC are supposed to come from Jazz. Of all the Jazz candidates who interview, 90% are to be offered a job (10% PFO rate).
---------- ADS -----------
 
derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by derateNO »

And one more correction, the two years requirement is gone.

The only requirement is you meet the OTS hiring minimums and your number comes up. You could be 3 months with Jazz or 3 years (if things slow down in the future).

Given how many pilots at Jazz don't have an ATPL or even 1500 hours right now and do not qualify for an AC interview... If you have over 2000 hours and an ATPL and have aspirations to go to AC you'd be a fool not to go to Jazz.

For anyone who is very Jr at Encore with those requirements and wants to go to AC you should quit now and go to Jazz. Based on the OTS hiring from Encore, you'll be waiting years otherwise. Same goes for anyone at SKR.

I think by the end of this year we'll be seeing people in AC groundschools who were at Jazz less than 6 months.
---------- ADS -----------
 
dash8driver
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:25 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by dash8driver »

Any news from contract negotiations?
---------- ADS -----------
 
the-minister31
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by the-minister31 »

Apparently they are getting close to a tentative agreement...
---------- ADS -----------
 
timeflies
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by timeflies »

and apparently a memo was sent out by the company saying that there would be flight reductions(due to coronavirus) for the next months? negotiations contract tactics to scare the pilots?

Knowing that at AC and Jazz this ''info'' was never passed along (yet)...
---------- ADS -----------
 
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

HotDiggityDog wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:05 pm Following close on the heals of the recently cancelled initial pilot course SKV HR now has a posting up for DEC's and FO's. Is anyone else having a hard time following this logic :shock:
One group of management is in charge of making sure that there is a pool of potential employees to hire.
A different group of management is in charge of deciding how many employees to hire.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by rudder »

Lots of rumours about SKY.

Recall that CPA can be cancelled with notice. 15 175’s owned by AC can be parked without cost. Other 10 are leases.

A220’s arriving at a good pace. 11 MAX orders cancelled. TRZ merger still happening (supposedly).

A lot of rightsizing is going to be happening with mainline NB and Express Jet fleets. CHR has fleet guarantees and 9 900’s arriving over the next 9 months.

Should be interesting.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Art Garfunkel
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:48 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by Art Garfunkel »

Jet fuel prices are also tanking making those old 175's cheaper (than before) to operate.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by rudder »

Art Garfunkel wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:24 pm Jet fuel prices are also tanking making those old 175's cheaper (than before) to operate.
Like I said - cheaper to park owned aircraft than leased aircraft. Fuel burn is of no consequence if passenger seats are unoccupied.

Which ones are owned. Which ones are leased. AC 190’s will retire quickly. No money is owed to anybody for them (previously sold and leased back with expiring leases 2019/2020).

On the Ouiji board that belongs to AC - the SKY 175’s are part of the broader calculation. If AC has unavoidable lease commitments to NB Airbus 220/319/320/321 fleet and the MAX then the disposition of the Express 76 seat jet fleet will form part of the contingency plan.

Only question now is whether AC will use this crisis to accelerate its ultimate plans for SKY.
---------- ADS -----------
 
derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by derateNO »

The ultimate plans for sky are for it to disappear.

No way, zero chance, the pilots at AC vote to increase seat scope for regional.

AC has a good jet operator in Jazz. Sky's days are numbered, and always were since day one.
---------- ADS -----------
 
timeflies
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: Potential Strike Topic?

Post by timeflies »

derateNO wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:58 pm The ultimate plans for sky are for it to disappear.

No way, zero chance, the pilots at AC vote to increase seat scope for regional.

AC has a good jet operator in Jazz. Sky's days are numbered, and always were since day one.
Last time I saw a CR picture(s), it wasn't with Jazz CEO but with Sky's.

This is a business and AC doesn't care about a good JET operator but a cheap one who gets the job done.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
getimage.jpeg
getimage.jpeg (33.76 KiB) Viewed 2975 times
17bc00d7-8ca7-4747-9121-eb9fac2cb052_ORIGINAL.jpg
17bc00d7-8ca7-4747-9121-eb9fac2cb052_ORIGINAL.jpg (216.26 KiB) Viewed 2975 times
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”