Updates on one - list.

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sstaurus
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by sstaurus »

It’s not back the way it was, my impression is they are just maintaining the list, really just for ‘housekeeping’ purposes. Nothing is finalized or in force yet.
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JBI
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by JBI »

sstaurus wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:53 pm It’s not back the way it was, my impression is they are just maintaining the list, really just for ‘housekeeping’ purposes. Nothing is finalized or in force yet.
This is correct.

Nothing of substance will occur at the moment with respect to those affected by the seniority draws. Either the draws will remain if a new seniority transfer agreement is completed, or if it is not agreed on now, the list will not stay joined and will be separated.

At this point, the new hires drawing a name won't have any specific items that affect them (i.e. base moves, upgrades, layoffs).

So again, it would be a different story if 1- there wasn't a mandate and 2- there are direct impacts on the persons drawing a number this month. But in practicality, it generally won't make a difference. From what I understand about the polling, the No vote was a vote against the previous LOU in that form, not a vote saying we don't want One List/Seniority Transfer period.

While there are definitely arguments for proceeding in a different manner, and I definitely see and respect your opinion on the matter, I do think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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cloak
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by cloak »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:13 pm
I just think it sets a bad precedent for the MEC to go out and go against a voted in result of its members, regardless what the results of the polling were. My understanding of the polling it was done by a 3rd party, they called random mainline pilots and got feedback. Mainline pilots were not asked to participate and those who didn’t participate still don’t even know who has and what the factual results are.
I feel like this would be like if a country was to vote on an issue that benefits the people of another country and when the result is negative everyone is surprised by the results. The leadership of that country then decides to poll people at random and go against what was voted in because of the opinion of a random minority that was polled.
That is good observation. It also seems that this email has NOT been circulated to all members! Regardless of MEC sentiments, present or past(recalled), there has JUST been a democratic vote by the membership which the MEC, under DFR, is bound to its own members to uphold; which leaves the MEC treading in some murky waters.
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MrTurbine
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by MrTurbine »

cloak wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:11 am
Yycjetdriver wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:13 pm
I just think it sets a bad precedent for the MEC to go out and go against a voted in result of its members, regardless what the results of the polling were. My understanding of the polling it was done by a 3rd party, they called random mainline pilots and got feedback. Mainline pilots were not asked to participate and those who didn’t participate still don’t even know who has and what the factual results are.
I feel like this would be like if a country was to vote on an issue that benefits the people of another country and when the result is negative everyone is surprised by the results. The leadership of that country then decides to poll people at random and go against what was voted in because of the opinion of a random minority that was polled.
That is good observation. It also seems that this email has NOT been circulated to all members! Regardless of MEC sentiments, present or past(recalled), there has JUST been a democratic vote by the membership which the MEC, under DFR, is bound to its own members to uphold; which leaves the MEC treading in some murky waters.
Keep in mind the mainline pilots originally voted no for 3 reason.
1. A lot of pilots didn’t even know there was a vote (vast amount of more senior folk)
2. A lot of pilots had no idea what they were voting for, they didn’t even read the document and just asked their buddies what to vote. This is sadly the highest percentage among my 3 points.
3. Layoff protection and pension wording

The mainline MEC screwed up in more ways than one. So much to vote on with just one click of a Yes/No button basically.

New info. This is going out to a vote soon. Only pilots who are on property at Encore BEFORE MAY 14 2019 will keep their westjet seniority, nobody else. If you started after that day, you only start mainline seniority when you finally flow to swoop or mainline. Once this gets voted in, this will be the true end of the one list.

I haven’t been on aVCanada In a long time, because I wanted to avoid the drama. But I am here just to educate new pilots of what’s going on here at encore.

Choose wisely.
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citizenbanana
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by citizenbanana »

Turbine doesn't seem to understand what a resolution is. Please do not take his word for fact. Maybe this will go to a pilot group vote. Maybe it won't. The MEC will decide
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lownslow
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by lownslow »

.80@410 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:17 am Don’t lose hope yet Boys n Girls.
From what I’ve heard now might be a good time.
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kiaszceski
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by kiaszceski »

So as of now what is the situation of the One List? Dead or alive?
As new hire what should we expect? Can we plan to hang our hat at Westjet with an evolution from Encore to Mainline or would it be wiser to wait and see what will ONEX do with Encore vs Mainline?
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MrTurbine
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by MrTurbine »

citizenbanana wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:31 pm Turbine doesn't seem to understand what a resolution is. Please do not take his word for fact. Maybe this will go to a pilot group vote. Maybe it won't. The MEC will decide
CB, you are correct, absolutely yes. And so is JBI, mind you he is an extremely sharp dude. It is just a resolution. the first bunch of my post is fact based, and the other half if totally based on my speculation of the future, and yes I tend to lean on the side of negative at time. Such is the industry, volatile.
A resolution has nothing to do with pilots voting, it’s an LEC initiated - MEC sanctioned plan that can be put in place. But what I was trying to say is, because the one list was already voted down earlier this year, and it crushed us, the mainline MEC can’t just decide to randomly respect the one list as it used to be prior to it being shut down. This resolution is the first step in a sort of long (few months) process of getting a portion of the one list back, but on mainline MEC terms. Eventually, it will have to go to a vote within the pilot group. This resolution is not that vote, obviously, but it will happen.
Yes I have worked with the union in the past, and yes I am familiar with the ALPA constitution and processes.
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co-joe
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by co-joe »

Stratopaused wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:07 pm
pacman007 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:23 pm You are right JBI.. but things have changed and managements boss has changed... ONEX will for sure have
Some input now and there is no way they would
Want to integrate encore with WestJet. Why you ask..... well because Encore is a asset that can be sold at some point. So keeping it separate now makes more sense than ever... but we shall see what your union and current management can come up with.
First, I disagree with your interpretation that Onex wants to sell off assets; I don't think they're paying a 67% premium to then shave off bits here and there to make back a few bucks, I think they see value in the entity as a whole. One doesn't typically buy a car for 2/3 more than it's worth just to sell the tires.
...
I'm glad you used the car analogy, because we all know that a car as a sum of its parts is worth way more than the car as a whole.

I think by the time the dust settles you all will be working for a much different looking Westjet group of companies. CPA's, sell offs, Encore getting jets, Swoop growing, widebodied purchases...? Who knows but it's going to come out looking much different. My WAG is that the lower cost companies will eat mainline's lunch.
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pacman007
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by pacman007 »

Agree with the above post! In 5 years mainline 737 fleet will be minimal and only 90% of the total pilots will remain at mainline. But on the bright side there will be 20 wide bodies doing 6 day parings!
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kiaszceski
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Re: Updates on one - list.

Post by kiaszceski »

I guess a good question is whether they want to compete with Air Canada or only keep their market share without growing up.
They can't possibly think that pilots will be enjoying their lives and jobs if they know they are being low paid...
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