How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

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FL007
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How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#1 Post by FL007 » Wed May 09, 2018 6:13 am

Just curious now how this WestJet alpa situation is affecting morale..

Is the guaranteed flow through looking like a gimmick right now, or what's the current outlook on flow to mainline?

I'm sure everyone is cheering the mainline pilots on, don't let the industry forget your pilot group either. You may have the biggest loss here with Pasco operating "Link" under your noses as well. And the risk of the guaranteed flow not actually being realistic.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#2 Post by Dizzy D » Wed May 09, 2018 6:26 am

I wouldn’t say there is uncertainty in regard to the one list. It is very high priority on both sides of the fence (WJ and Encore.) As far as morale goes, I would say it’s low for everyone under the WestJet umbrella. Nobody wants to see WJ pilots go to a strike, but management may leave them no other option.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#3 Post by altiplano » Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 am

One certain thing, there won't be much flying to flow through to at Westjet from Encore if it all gets Swooped...
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#4 Post by JBI » Wed May 09, 2018 8:28 am

Although I'm no longer actively flying at Encore, I can say that morale at Encore is challenging, but not for the reasons that are referred to in the initial post or subject matter.

There isn't any real uncertainty with the one list. Encore pilots have a WestJet Pilot Department List number and WJ's ALPA reps have consistently reiterated that it is their indication to keep it that way. There has been a good relationship between the Encore ALPA and WJ ALPA reps. There has also been great cooperation between the Encore ALPA reps and Encore's Flight Ops Management. The relationship with the pilots and Encore management, generally speaking, remains good and that speaks to the caliber of the Encore Flight Ops Management.

The issue with flow is not so much if it will happen, but when it will happen. The real challenge with morale at Encore is that, currently, the Encore schedule and working conditions simply are not conducive to a long term career. The schedule is intense and the pay isn't overwhelming. That's ok if it's a 3 year commitment to then flow to the jet (and take a pay cut), but there are not too many pilots at Encore that want to make a career out of it. Spending 5,6,7+ years flying the exhausting Encore schedule isn't all that sustainable.

I've been pretty consistent with my position that the way the WestJet has rolled out Swoop and its lack of information to the pilots as to how it will affect their career progression has been disappointing. Instead of having a new opportunity that will open up the career prospects for Encore pilots that would chose to go to Swoop, there was uncertainty, radio silence and now there have been outside hires. Make no mistake, the vast majority of Encore pilots have/had no desire to try and undercut or 'steal' the Swoop flying from the WestJet pilots, but if there was a proper, fair agreement on how Swoop would be staffed by pilots on the WestJet Pilot Department List, many Encore pilots would be very interested.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think there are all that many Encore pilots who are worried about Pasco taking 'their' flying. While there will be some routes where there is overlap, the destinations that are planned for the 34 seat Saab (Cranbrook, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, Lloydminster) are simply not sustainable on a 78 seat Q400. Encore FOs are already upgrading as soon as they have enough experience, so its not like they are missing out on a promotion due to the WestJet Link flying. Unlike Swoop which is arguably reducing the number of 'available' 737 FO spots for Encore pilots, the Saab flying is a different scenario. Pasco pilots are not undercutting Encore pilots. Pasco pilots don't get paid significantly less than Encore pilots. Currently the FO rates at Pasco are lower but the Saab Captain salaries are pretty close and the senior Captains at Pasco make more than the senior Captains at Encore. The Pasco schedule also usually provides more days off and more nights at home in a month. It is a very different situation than what played out in YYZ with Jazz/Georgian and Sky Regional where aircraft were actively transferred from Jazz to Georgian (and flown at lower rates) or from AC to Sky (and flown at lower rates).
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#5 Post by Dizzy D » Wed May 09, 2018 8:37 am

JBI wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:28 am
Although I'm no longer actively flying at Encore, I can say that morale at Encore is challenging, but not for the reasons that are referred to in the initial post or subject matter.

There isn't any real uncertainty with the one list. Encore pilots have a WestJet Pilot Department List number and WJ's ALPA reps have consistently reiterated that it is their indication to keep it that way. There has been a good relationship between the Encore ALPA and WJ ALPA reps. There has also been great cooperation between the Encore ALPA reps and Encore's Flight Ops Management. The relationship with the pilots and Encore management, generally speaking, remains good and that speaks to the caliber of the Encore Flight Ops Management.

The issue with flow is not so much if it will happen, but when it will happen. The real challenge with morale at Encore is that, currently, the Encore schedule and working conditions simply are not conducive to a long term career. The schedule is intense and the pay isn't overwhelming. That's ok if it's a 3 year commitment to then flow to the jet (and take a pay cut), but there are not too many pilots at Encore that want to make a career out of it. Spending 5,6,7+ years flying the exhausting Encore schedule isn't all that sustainable.

I've been pretty consistent with my position that the way the WestJet has rolled out Swoop and its lack of information to the pilots as to how it will affect their career progression has been disappointing. Instead of having a new opportunity that will open up the career prospects for Encore pilots that would chose to go to Swoop, there was uncertainty, radio silence and now there have been outside hires. Make no mistake, the vast majority of Encore pilots have/had no desire to try and undercut or 'steal' the Swoop flying from the WestJet pilots, but if there was a proper, fair agreement on how Swoop would be staffed by pilots on the WestJet Pilot Department List, many Encore pilots would be very interested.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think there are all that many Encore pilots who are worried about Pasco taking 'their' flying. While there will be some routes where there is overlap, the destinations that are planned for the 34 seat Saab (Cranbrook, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, Lloydminster) are simply not sustainable on a 78 seat Q400. Encore FOs are already upgrading as soon as they have enough experience, so its not like they are missing out on a promotion due to the WestJet Link flying. Unlike Swoop which is arguably reducing the number of 'available' 737 FO spots for Encore pilots, the Saab flying is a different scenario. Pasco pilots are not undercutting Encore pilots. Pasco pilots don't get paid significantly less than Encore pilots. Currently the FO rates at Pasco are lower but the Saab Captain salaries are pretty close and the senior Captains at Pasco make more than the senior Captains at Encore. The Pasco schedule also usually provides more days off and more nights at home in a month. It is a very different situation than what played out in YYZ with Jazz/Georgian and Sky Regional where aircraft were actively transferred from Jazz to Georgian (and flown at lower rates) or from AC to Sky (and flown at lower rates).
The cooperation between ALPA and Encore management may not be as good as you think JBI. It’s probably as good as WJ and their management. Walls have been put up for sure.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#6 Post by FL007 » Wed May 09, 2018 10:08 am

JBI wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:28 am
Although I'm no longer actively flying at Encore, I can say that morale at Encore is challenging, but not for the reasons that are referred to in the initial post or subject matter.

There isn't any real uncertainty with the one list. Encore pilots have a WestJet Pilot Department List number and WJ's ALPA reps have consistently reiterated that it is their indication to keep it that way. There has been a good relationship between the Encore ALPA and WJ ALPA reps. There has also been great cooperation between the Encore ALPA reps and Encore's Flight Ops Management. The relationship with the pilots and Encore management, generally speaking, remains good and that speaks to the caliber of the Encore Flight Ops Management.

The issue with flow is not so much if it will happen, but when it will happen. The real challenge with morale at Encore is that, currently, the Encore schedule and working conditions simply are not conducive to a long term career. The schedule is intense and the pay isn't overwhelming. That's ok if it's a 3 year commitment to then flow to the jet (and take a pay cut), but there are not too many pilots at Encore that want to make a career out of it. Spending 5,6,7+ years flying the exhausting Encore schedule isn't all that sustainable.

I've been pretty consistent with my position that the way the WestJet has rolled out Swoop and its lack of information to the pilots as to how it will affect their career progression has been disappointing. Instead of having a new opportunity that will open up the career prospects for Encore pilots that would chose to go to Swoop, there was uncertainty, radio silence and now there have been outside hires. Make no mistake, the vast majority of Encore pilots have/had no desire to try and undercut or 'steal' the Swoop flying from the WestJet pilots, but if there was a proper, fair agreement on how Swoop would be staffed by pilots on the WestJet Pilot Department List, many Encore pilots would be very interested.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think there are all that many Encore pilots who are worried about Pasco taking 'their' flying. While there will be some routes where there is overlap, the destinations that are planned for the 34 seat Saab (Cranbrook, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, Lloydminster) are simply not sustainable on a 78 seat Q400. Encore FOs are already upgrading as soon as they have enough experience, so its not like they are missing out on a promotion due to the WestJet Link flying. Unlike Swoop which is arguably reducing the number of 'available' 737 FO spots for Encore pilots, the Saab flying is a different scenario. Pasco pilots are not undercutting Encore pilots. Pasco pilots don't get paid significantly less than Encore pilots. Currently the FO rates at Pasco are lower but the Saab Captain salaries are pretty close and the senior Captains at Pasco make more than the senior Captains at Encore. The Pasco schedule also usually provides more days off and more nights at home in a month. It is a very different situation than what played out in YYZ with Jazz/Georgian and Sky Regional where aircraft were actively transferred from Jazz to Georgian (and flown at lower rates) or from AC to Sky (and flown at lower rates).
Very insightful thank you.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#7 Post by WeedPro2000 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 am

JBI wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:28 am
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There isn't any real uncertainty with the one list. Encore pilots have a WestJet Pilot Department List number and WJ's ALPA reps have consistently reiterated that it is their indication to keep it that way.
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I suspect there is no longer any uncertainty with the WPDL, informally known as the One List. In the recent arbitration order from Mr Kaplan, the existing Swoop pilots were placed at the bottom of the WestJet seniority list. This confirms that there is no longer a WPDL as it relates to WJ and it's soon to be first CBA. In its update of May 26, ALPA communicated that seniority was in a group of issues that were mostly complete, except for a few minor issues. I suspect this means that ALPA freely negotiated a seniority list that is ordered by date of hire (at WestJet) prior to the start of arbitration, i.e. they weren't forced to abandon the WPDL, they did so willingly.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#8 Post by Mr. North » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:15 pm

Encore pilots DOH is honored on the WestJet seniority list. Nice try.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#9 Post by Rezy » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:05 pm

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 am
JBI wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:28 am
.
.
.
There isn't any real uncertainty with the one list. Encore pilots have a WestJet Pilot Department List number and WJ's ALPA reps have consistently reiterated that it is their indication to keep it that way.
.
.
.
I suspect there is no longer any uncertainty with the WPDL, informally known as the One List. In the recent arbitration order from Mr Kaplan, the existing Swoop pilots were placed at the bottom of the WestJet seniority list. This confirms that there is no longer a WPDL as it relates to WJ and it's soon to be first CBA. In its update of May 26, ALPA communicated that seniority was in a group of issues that were mostly complete, except for a few minor issues. I suspect this means that ALPA freely negotiated a seniority list that is ordered by date of hire (at WestJet) prior to the start of arbitration, i.e. they weren't forced to abandon the WPDL, they did so willingly.
Swoop pilots were placed on the WPDL by date of hire. Just like every other pilot. April 4th and April 30th. As it stands there would be about 30 encore Pilots below them. There is still only one list and all the normal rules apply - you are placed on the list based on DOH.
So I don’t understand where you are getting these ideas from.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#10 Post by WeedPro2000 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:09 am

Rezy wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:05 pm

Swoop pilots were placed on the WPDL by date of hire. Just like every other pilot. April 4th and April 30th. As it stands there would be about 30 encore Pilots below them. There is still only one list and all the normal rules apply - you are placed on the list based on DOH.
So I don’t understand where you are getting these ideas from.
Rezy, can you tell me first why you think the WPDL, a creation of the WJPA that incorporated WestJet and WestJet Encore pilots, still exists? What gives you the idea that the Swoop pilots were added to the WPDL? Arbitrator Kaplan made no mention of the WPDL or Encore pilots in his ruling. ALPA no mention of the WPDL and only one mention of the word Encore (in reference to the Unfair Labour Practice) in describing the ruling. WestJet made no mention of the WPDL in describing (email from SW on May 7, 2018) the ruling, and mentioned the word Encore twice only in a statement of hiring needs.

I have attached Kaplan's ruling to this post. You will see no mention of the WPDL or Encore in the ruling.

1. Here is WestJet's only mention of Encore in its update of June 7, 2018 regarding the ruling. The section is unedited from start to finish and is lifted from the middle of the update.
With consideration of all the moving pieces highlighted above, we have developed a five-year hiring plan that encompasses fleet growth, the hiring for reserve and flight and duty time rule changes anticipated through regulatory change, and with elements likely tied to the new collective agreement. If we are able to execute our growth plan as envisioned we anticipate the need for greater than six hundred new pilot positions at WestJet alone (this does not include Swoop and Encore) over the next five years; an increase of over 40% from where we are today. Retirements and attrition are factored in as well, with retirements expected to be close to 40 per year by 2021.

At the rate of change in this highly competitive environment, now, more than ever, we need to rely on our DNA to embrace change and grasp opportunities, without which, we would not be the formidable competitor that we are today, and we wouldn’t have the great future ahead of us as we move towards becoming a global carrier.

If the approach had been to not work collaboratively towards a common goal, there would be no Encore, and there would be no widebody. Our career opportunities would look very different today if we had not made these leaps of faith and commitment years ago.


2. Here is ALPA's update of June 7, 2018, in its entirety, in describing the ruling:
Dear Fellow pilots,

Today, Arbitrator William Kaplan issued an interim award with regard to the issue of Swoop flying. Among other things, this award addresses who does the Swoop flying, who is eligible to bid on future Swoop pilot vacancies, and the seniority of the pilots already hired at Swoop. Not included in the interim award are the terms and conditions of Swoop which will be finalized in the Collective Agreement.

Attached is the award and below are some of the important points. Our Negotiating Committee presented our position that reflects the stated interests of our pilots. There are positives and negatives in the award.

Here are the important parts of the award.

As of today, Swoop recognizes ALPA as the exclusive bargaining agent for its pilots, and the Parties agree that a bargaining unit encompassing pilots employed by both WestJet and Swoop is appropriate for collective bargaining. WestJet and ALPA will be making a joint application to the Canada Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) to amend ALPA's bargaining certificate to include Swoop flying. The Parties also agreed that WestJet and Swoop are common employers. Further, ALPA's Unfair Labour Practice complaint against WestJet and WestJet Encore with regards to hiring at Swoop as well as WestJet's Unfair Labour Practice complaint against ALPA will be discontinued, and the IFALPA Swoop recruitment ban will also be repealed.

Existing Swoop pilots will remain in their current position until directed otherwise by the mediator/arbitrator.

WestJet pilots will be eligible for all positions at Swoop going forward. The known Swoop courses are:

June 25th, 2018 – 10 First Officer Positions based in YHM
August 13th, 2018 – 7 Captains and 7 First Officers based in YEG (wait for Vacancy Bid to confirm)
September 3rd, 2018 – 7 Captains and 7 First Officers based in YEG (wait for Vacancy Bid to confirm)

The Vacancy Bid will be published no later than Friday, June 8th (tomorrow). The bid will close at 0900 on Friday, June 15th, 2018. Successful bids will be awarded by 0900 on June 17th, 2018. Interested pilots may bid on the Swoop positions using the PSB tool on WestNet.

No WestJet pilot will incur a pay cut by bidding on these positions. Once the collective agreement is complete and pay rates are finalized, all pilots will move to the appropriate pay rate as defined in the collective agreement.

We realize this is a tight timeline for pilots to make such a large decision. While more time and information would be preferable to help make these decisions, we cannot provide you with any specifics until the mediation/arbitration process is complete. Unfortunately, the mediator/arbitrator has indicated that completion of the collective agreement may take longer than was expected. In order to compensate for the delay, we are going to be pursuing retroactive pay.

Should an insufficient number of WestJet pilots bid on the above Swoop vacancies, pilots may be hired externally.

Swoop pilots will be placed on the WestJet Pilot Seniority List by their date of hire at Swoop.
Captain Bypass positions. WestJet has been directed to hold a bid for and then award "Captain Bypass Positions" to our current pilots to compensate for the 26 Swoop Captain currently holding Swoop Captain positions in YHM.
While we far preferred that existing WestJet pilots would have filled these positions immediately, financial compensation for pilots who could otherwise hold these positions is a positive mitigating factor.

The remainder of the collective agreement will be mediated/arbitrated over the next few months. As we have been from the beginning, we are available 24/7 to complete this process and should additional dates open up, we will be ready.
We appreciate your patience and will update you as the mediation/arbitration process continues. Please call your MEC rep with any questions.

In unity,

Your MEC
Approximately 15 months ago, I set up a website, the EncoreSeniorityCoalition.org, that tried to convince, without success, a majority of pilots on what would happen to the WPDL in the event of ALPA certifying WJ pilots. It would seem that I was 100% correct. There is no WPDL. There is a WestJet seniority list, ordered by date of hire, and there is an Encore seniority list, ordered by date of hire.

Sincerely,

the guy who knew better.
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Rezy
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#11 Post by Rezy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:32 pm

When the arbitrator references the “WestJet Pilot Seniority List” - I believe this is meant to be the WPDL as there’s no indication of it being otherwise changed. The MEC made it clear to Encore Pilots that 30 of them are displaced by Swoop hires. Showing that there is only one list.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#12 Post by Tango Niner » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:38 pm

Rezy wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:32 pm
When the arbitrator references the “WestJet Pilot Seniority List” - I believe this is meant to be the WPDL as there’s no indication of it being otherwise changed. The MEC made it clear to Encore Pilots that 30 of them are displaced by Swoop hires. Showing that there is only one list.
WeedPro, I sincerely applaud your efforts to champion the Encore pilots, especially WRT their position on the WPDL.

Respectfully, though, I agree with Rezy here. Sure, the arbitrator didn't refer to it as the WPDL. He just worded it wrong. Regardless, I think the WPDL is intact and in place in the way Rezy describes.

T9
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#13 Post by flyinhigh » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:53 am

Although every morale compass I have whole hearty disagrees with weedpro, I will agree in this instance.

When a arbitrator sits with a company, they mediate/arbitrate with that company and will make a discussion point for that said company. In this Case, Mr Kaplan is dealing with WestJet and will only discuss issues related to WestJet. He could care less about Encore as that is not his mandate, unless somehow it became his mandate.

So, with his ruling, he is not referencing the WPDL because he is specifically mentioning the WestJet Seniority List. He is a very smart man, if he had intended to reference the WPDL he would have.

Moving forward, unless the MEC's and Company get together, than once the respective CBA's get signed, the one list is dead. The official relationship will be that of JAZZ/Air Canada arrangement. Long story short, the Encore pilot are/got screwed.

I hope to hell that I am wrong for the sake of the 550 Encore pilots, however with my understanding of the current published language this is road being taken.
WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 am

I suspect there is no longer any uncertainty with the WPDL, informally known as the One List. In the recent arbitration order from Mr Kaplan, the existing Swoop pilots were placed at the bottom of the WestJet seniority list. This confirms that there is no longer a WPDL as it relates to WJ and it's soon to be first CBA. In its update of May 26, ALPA communicated that seniority was in a group of issues that were mostly complete, except for a few minor issues. I suspect this means that ALPA freely negotiated a seniority list that is ordered by date of hire (at WestJet) prior to the start of arbitration, i.e. they weren't forced to abandon the WPDL, they did so willingly.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#14 Post by FL410AV8R » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

The company just opened up bidding on Swoop and WestJet F/O positions to Encore so I would say the WPDL or combined WestJet Seniority List is alive and well and rumours of its demise have been greatly exaggerated.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#15 Post by Rezy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:12 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:53 am
Although every morale compass I have whole hearty disagrees with weedpro, I will agree in this instance.

When a arbitrator sits with a company, they mediate/arbitrate with that company and will make a discussion point for that said company. In this Case, Mr Kaplan is dealing with WestJet and will only discuss issues related to WestJet. He could care less about Encore as that is not his mandate, unless somehow it became his mandate.

So, with his ruling, he is not referencing the WPDL because he is specifically mentioning the WestJet Seniority List. He is a very smart man, if he had intended to reference the WPDL he would have.

Moving forward, unless the MEC's and Company get together, than once the respective CBA's get signed, the one list is dead. The official relationship will be that of JAZZ/Air Canada arrangement. Long story short, the Encore pilot are/got screwed.

I hope to hell that I am wrong for the sake of the 550 Encore pilots, however with my understanding of the current published language this is road being taken.
WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 am

I suspect there is no longer any uncertainty with the WPDL, informally known as the One List. In the recent arbitration order from Mr Kaplan, the existing Swoop pilots were placed at the bottom of the WestJet seniority list. This confirms that there is no longer a WPDL as it relates to WJ and it's soon to be first CBA. In its update of May 26, ALPA communicated that seniority was in a group of issues that were mostly complete, except for a few minor issues. I suspect this means that ALPA freely negotiated a seniority list that is ordered by date of hire (at WestJet) prior to the start of arbitration, i.e. they weren't forced to abandon the WPDL, they did so willingly.
The WestJet Encore MEC was present at the arbitration regarding swoop - so no. He is not just dealing with WestJet, that is false and presumptuous.
Swoop pilots were not placed at the bottom of the seniority list, they were addded based on their DOH. Just like every other WJ/Encore Pilot.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#16 Post by Bede » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:40 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:09 am
Sincerely,

the guy who knew better.
Apparently not. The RS positions at Swoop, along with the RS positions open at WJ have been offered to Swoop pilots in accordance with their DOH.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#17 Post by Mooseontheloose » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:37 am

NEWSFLASH! ENCORE PILOTS GETTING THE SHAFT!!

NEW WESTJET MAINLINE/SWOOP JOB POSTING MEANS PEOPLE COMING IN OFF THE STREET TAKING YOUR DAMN JET JOB!!! THEY GET YEARS OF SERVICE RIGHT AWAY, WHAT DO YOU GET?! JACK SQUAT!! 5+ YEARS OF 18 DAYS A MONTH FOLLOWED BY A PAY CUT!! THANKS FOR ALL THE HARD WORK FELLAS AND FOR BEING SO WESTJETTY!!!!

DONT MIND US WHILE WE HIRE A BUNCH OF NAVAJO COJOS TO FILL YOUR JET SPOTS!! IT'S OKAY THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU'LL BE A SHINY JET CAPTAIN BEFORE THEM!! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEIR YEARS OF SERVICE OR HOW MUCH MORE $$$$$ THEY'LL MAKE! OR HOW ABOUT THAT ROCKSTAR SCHEDULE THEY GOT ON THE JET!!! YESSIR!! THEY'LL BE SITTING POOLSIDE, COUNTING PHAT STACKS AND SUBMITTING 37 TYPE RATED RESUMES TO BIG RED WHILE YOU FLY OFF OVER HEAD DOING THE MIN-REST PRAIRIE BAGDRIVE!!! SEEE YAAAAAH!!!

JUST ASK ANY ENCORE PILOT AT MAINLINE WHAT THEY GOT FOR ALL THEIR TIME!! NOTHING!!!! ENCORE TIME IS THE SAME AS SITTING RIGHT SEAT ON A CARAVAN DOING THE POP & CHIP RUN!! - WORTHLESS!!! YOU MAY AS WELL BE DIGGING SHITTERS UP NORTH HOPING FOR A TICKET TO THE BIG SHOW!!!

HOWS THAT PROFIT SHARE WORKING OUT FOR YAAHHHHH??!! MAYBE IF YAH WORK A LITTLE HARDER YOU'LL MAKE YOUR OPA QUOTA!!! YEAAAAAAAHHHH MEN!!!
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#18 Post by jjj » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:14 am

Mooseontheloose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:37 am
NEWSFLASH! ENCORE PILOTS GETTING THE SHAFT!!

NEW WESTJET MAINLINE/SWOOP JOB POSTING MEANS PEOPLE COMING IN OFF THE STREET TAKING YOUR DAMN JET JOB!!! THEY GET YEARS OF SERVICE RIGHT AWAY, WHAT DO YOU GET?! JACK SQUAT!! 5+ YEARS OF 18 DAYS A MONTH FOLLOWED BY A PAY CUT!! THANKS FOR ALL THE HARD WORK FELLAS AND FOR BEING SO WESTJETTY!!!!

DONT MIND US WHILE WE HIRE A BUNCH OF NAVAJO COJOS TO FILL YOUR JET SPOTS!! IT'S OKAY THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU'LL BE A SHINY JET CAPTAIN BEFORE THEM!! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEIR YEARS OF SERVICE OR HOW MUCH MORE $$$$$ THEY'LL MAKE! OR HOW ABOUT THAT ROCKSTAR SCHEDULE THEY GOT ON THE JET!!! YESSIR!! THEY'LL BE SITTING POOLSIDE, COUNTING PHAT STACKS AND SUBMITTING A 37 TYPE RATED RESUME TO BIG RED WHILE YOU FLY OFF OVER HEAD DOING THE MIN-REST PRAIRIE BAGDRIVE!!! SEEE YAAAAAH!!!

JUST ASK ANY ENCORE PILOT AT MAINLINE WHAT THEY GOT FOR ALL THEIR TIME!! NOTHING!!!! ENCORE TIME IS THE SAME AS SITTING RIGHT SEAT ON A CARAVAN DOING THE POP & CHIP RUN!! - WORTHLESS!!! YOU MAY AS WELL BE DIGGING SHITTERS UP NORTH HOPING FOR A TICKET TO THE BIG SHOW!!!

HOWS THAT PROFIT SHARE WORKING OUT FOR YAAHHHHH??!! MAYBE IF YAH WORK A LITTLE HARDER YOU'LL MAKE YOUR OPA QUOTA!!! YEAAAAAAAHHHH MEN!!!
Hmmm - all caps button is stuck.

Playing devil’s advocate here despite a vacuum of information.

Hiring OTS into the 37 has been happening for years when flow from Encore can’t be sustained.

If this practice continues under the present state of affairs I don’t see where the problem is as long as the Encore date if hire is respected once they eventually flow.

Moose - this preserves the conditions an encore pilot was hired under and with exception for the presence of the OTS SWABS I don’t see what your gripe is.

There is an argument for YOS for Encore that will be decided at the negotiating table.

Call your mommy and ask for a hug.

I wish all the best to anyone in this business getting a better deal but your average Encore pilot doesn’t garner much sympathy from anyone of my generation.

Cheers.

JJJ
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#19 Post by FL007 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:43 am

jjj wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:14 am
Mooseontheloose wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:37 am
NEWSFLASH! ENCORE PILOTS GETTING THE SHAFT!!

NEW WESTJET MAINLINE/SWOOP JOB POSTING MEANS PEOPLE COMING IN OFF THE STREET TAKING YOUR DAMN JET JOB!!! THEY GET YEARS OF SERVICE RIGHT AWAY, WHAT DO YOU GET?! JACK SQUAT!! 5+ YEARS OF 18 DAYS A MONTH FOLLOWED BY A PAY CUT!! THANKS FOR ALL THE HARD WORK FELLAS AND FOR BEING SO WESTJETTY!!!!

DONT MIND US WHILE WE HIRE A BUNCH OF NAVAJO COJOS TO FILL YOUR JET SPOTS!! IT'S OKAY THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU'LL BE A SHINY JET CAPTAIN BEFORE THEM!! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEIR YEARS OF SERVICE OR HOW MUCH MORE $$$$$ THEY'LL MAKE! OR HOW ABOUT THAT ROCKSTAR SCHEDULE THEY GOT ON THE JET!!! YESSIR!! THEY'LL BE SITTING POOLSIDE, COUNTING PHAT STACKS AND SUBMITTING A 37 TYPE RATED RESUME TO BIG RED WHILE YOU FLY OFF OVER HEAD DOING THE MIN-REST PRAIRIE BAGDRIVE!!! SEEE YAAAAAH!!!

JUST ASK ANY ENCORE PILOT AT MAINLINE WHAT THEY GOT FOR ALL THEIR TIME!! NOTHING!!!! ENCORE TIME IS THE SAME AS SITTING RIGHT SEAT ON A CARAVAN DOING THE POP & CHIP RUN!! - WORTHLESS!!! YOU MAY AS WELL BE DIGGING SHITTERS UP NORTH HOPING FOR A TICKET TO THE BIG SHOW!!!

HOWS THAT PROFIT SHARE WORKING OUT FOR YAAHHHHH??!! MAYBE IF YAH WORK A LITTLE HARDER YOU'LL MAKE YOUR OPA QUOTA!!! YEAAAAAAAHHHH MEN!!!
Hmmm - all caps button is stuck.

Playing devil’s advocate here despite a vacuum of information.

Hiring OTS into the 37 has been happening for years when flow from Encore can’t be sustained.

If this practice continues under the present state of affairs I don’t see where the problem is as long as the Encore date if hire is respected once they eventually flow.

Moose - this preserves the conditions an encore pilot was hired under and with exception for the presence of the OTS SWABS I don’t see what your gripe is.

There is an argument for YOS for Encore that will be decided at the negotiating table.

Call your mommy and ask for a hug.

I wish all the best to anyone in this business getting a better deal but your average Encore pilot doesn’t garner much sympathy from anyone of my generation.

Cheers.

JJJ
I don't think there's a chance YOS will be agreed upon in transition to WJ from Encore. That would be an insane expense, and would encourage OTS hires as it would cost less for an OTS hire hired on a 737 yr 1 fo than 5 year fo coming from encore.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#20 Post by short bus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:19 am

Well, at least we know what happened to 748HO.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#21 Post by Mooseontheloose » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:46 am

jjj wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:14 am
I wish all the best to anyone in this business getting a better deal but your average Encore pilot doesn’t garner much sympathy from anyone of my generation.

Cheers.

JJJ
WORDS OF WISDOM FROM CAPT. SHITDONTSTINK!! CANT WAIT TO FLY WITH YAHH!!!

LISTEN UP GENTS!!! 2 PILOTS GET HIRED ON THE SAME DAY. THEY BOTH UPGRADE IN SIX YEARS. ONE ENJOYS THE WESTJET LIFESTYLE AND GOES STRAIGHT TO YEAR 6 CAPTAIN PAY!!! THE OTHER IS WORKED LIKE A STINKY PACK MULE FOR 5 YEARS!! TAKES A PAY CUT AND THEN UPGRADES TO CAPTAIN YEAR 2!!! ANYONE WRITING THE PSTAR WILL KNOW WHO HAS THE BETTER DEAL!! ITS THE NAVAJO COJO STARTING AT WESTJET TOMORROW!!!

ALL THE DASH DRIVERS AT ENCORE HOPING TO PUNCH THE TICKET FOR BIG RED!!! YEAAAAHH!!! GOOD LUCK!!! ENCORE WON'T BE ABLE TO FLOW ANYONE IF TOO MANY PEOPLE LEAVE!!! HOPE YOU ENJOY FLYING THAT DASH FOR LIFE!!! DON'T WORRY, GOT A PAY CUT WAITING FOR YA WHENEVER YA GET HERE!!! LOL!!!! SEEEE YAAAHHH!!!

KEEP PICKING UP SOGGY KLEENEX AND CANDY WRAPPERS!!! THE DIRTY DASH DOESN'T CLEAN ITSELF!!! THANKS FOR BEING SO WESTJETTY!!!
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#22 Post by complexintentions » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:53 pm

Lol

:lol:
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#23 Post by jjj » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:01 pm

short bus wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:19 am
Well, at least we know what happened to 748HO.
Good one! Was trying to remember that handle.

Missed you 748.

JJJ
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#24 Post by sstaurus » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:20 am

:lol: His Caps lock may be stuck.. but he's not too far off the mark.
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Re: How's morale with uncertainty of the one list?

#25 Post by pacman007 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:57 am

Well my guess is that all the encore pilots will keep there YOS and get the pay that goes along with it. I suspect very soon that there will be a posting for the “westjet group of companies”with the same pay scale for the first 3-4 years just like AC. So when you get hired the company will put you where they need you. Wen you are off the standard pay ( first 3-4 years) you can bid on base/type and keep the YOS that go along with it. This allows the company to grow where they need to and not have pilots applying for swoop, westjet but not encore. Not a good deal for experienced pilots but that’s they way it needs to be!
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