You can’t really bank on anything in this day and age. Also, hiring will most probably be for YYZ for the forseaable, since YYC has a good amount of staff for right now. All captain spots for right now for upgrades are only in yyz. If you want yvr or YYC, consider jazz. Their new agreement is pretty decent and a very good long term plan, even if it’s just a stepping stone to AC. If you don’t care about commuting to yyz (we have one of the best commuter policies in North America), consider skipping encore and going straight to mainline. Better pairings, and better pay, and you get to skip the regional turmoil and go straight to a mainline. times better an option.
Hiring outlook
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Re: Hiring outlook
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Re: Hiring outlook
How come I always here Encore is screaming for pilots, yet they dont have any classes right now?
Re: Hiring outlook
My best guess is there is a glut of FOs they are waiting to meet the matrix for upgrade. Captains are in short supply and they are the ones flowing to mainline as well. I’m surprised they aren’t hiring more DECs (though maybe there are none left).
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Re: Hiring outlook
MrTurbine,
If one were to arrive on the property today for a mainline YYZ position, how long roughly would it take to get to YYC? Any insight is helpful. Thanks,
Re: Hiring outlook
The lowest seniority YYC 737 FO is an early 2017 hire. It's very tough to predict how long a new mainline hire could expect to be waiting for YYC at this time. Reducing times is the fact that the 787 growth is starting in YYC, the new flight duty regs and the introduction in reserve for the mainline fleet. On the other hand, there are a significant number of Encore pilots in YYZ who have flowed but want YYC or currently at Encore in YYC and are waiting to flow until they have a better chance of holding YYC. So, generally speaking, they'll have higher seniority on YYC than new OTS mainline pilots.ZoomZoom147 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:03 am
MrTurbine,
If one were to arrive on the property today for a mainline YYZ position, how long roughly would it take to get to YYC? Any insight is helpful. Thanks,
So, while you have a better chance of getting YYC with WJ over AC (considering AC doesn't have a base), plan on a few years in YYZ.
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Re: Hiring outlook
Thanks JBI, that was very informative. As someone new to the civilian industry, I'm trying to learn how it works....JBI wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:47 amThe lowest seniority YYC 737 FO is an early 2017 hire. It's very tough to predict how long a new mainline hire could expect to be waiting for YYC at this time. Reducing times is the fact that the 787 growth is starting in YYC, the new flight duty regs and the introduction in reserve for the mainline fleet. On the other hand, there are a significant number of Encore pilots in YYZ who have flowed but want YYC or currently at Encore in YYC and are waiting to flow until they have a better chance of holding YYC. So, generally speaking, they'll have higher seniority on YYC than new OTS mainline pilots.ZoomZoom147 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:03 am
MrTurbine,
If one were to arrive on the property today for a mainline YYZ position, how long roughly would it take to get to YYC? Any insight is helpful. Thanks,
So, while you have a better chance of getting YYC with WJ over AC (considering AC doesn't have a base), plan on a few years in YYZ.
Could you please touch on how pairings work. IE: What kind of pairings would be available for WJ mainline, what pairings would be the best to obtain if you were commuting from YYC to YYZ (least amount of commuting per month), and what the likelihood of obtaining those pairings would be? Thanks again!
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Re: Hiring outlook
If I’m understanding correctly, if someone wants yyz it’s the easiest thing in encore/wj.
Re: Hiring outlook
If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
Re: Hiring outlook
Every part of me wants to agree with you, but you are wrong. Schedules have gotten better, overtime is available here and there (little more scarce than last couple of years) meaning we have a good amount of crews, pay is low but you can make it work. As an FO, I was able to make it show around 75 k on my T4, and for a regional, that’s pretty good. As a captain, 6 figures is easy, mind you, I’m in training so that has its perks as well. I used to work hard for my money, not so much anymore. A decent contract is coming, so this place is going to get a little better. Yes, mainline is a ton better for pay and for scheduling. But if you like to fly close to home like me, regional flying can be fun. I’m not going to tell you to stay at Encore forever, it is not jazz, so it is not a long term place. Most of us will go to mainline when the number comes up, for good reason. But while your seniority goes up (one list meetings pending discussion), it’s a fantastic place to earn your stripes, get to know the Westjet family/culture, and sharpen those flying skills. The Q can be a handful to fly most of the time. And yes, I work an average of 14-16 days a month, next month I have 9 flying days.skybaron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
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Re: Hiring outlook
75k on your T4 as an FO? I would love to learn how you got there. Totally genuine question as I’d love to work up to that range as an FO too.MrTurbine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 amEvery part of me wants to agree with you, but you are wrong. Schedules have gotten better, overtime is available here and there (little more scarce than last couple of years) meaning we have a good amount of crews, pay is low but you can make it work. As an FO, I was able to make it show around 75 k on my T4, and for a regional, that’s pretty good. As a captain, 6 figures is easy, mind you, I’m in training so that has its perks as well. I used to work hard for my money, not so much anymore. A decent contract is coming, so this place is going to get a little better. Yes, mainline is a ton better for pay and for scheduling. But if you like to fly close to home like me, regional flying can be fun. I’m not going to tell you to stay at Encore forever, it is not jazz, so it is not a long term place. Most of us will go to mainline when the number comes up, for good reason. But while your seniority goes up (one list meetings pending discussion), it’s a fantastic place to earn your stripes, get to know the Westjet family/culture, and sharpen those flying skills. The Q can be a handful to fly most of the time. And yes, I work an average of 14-16 days a month, next month I have 9 flying days.skybaron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
Re: Hiring outlook
5 - 6 OT days a month including stand ups and lots of training pay did most of the trick.Yieldermatik wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:11 pm75k on your T4 as an FO? I would love to learn how you got there. Totally genuine question as I’d love to work up to that range as an FO too.MrTurbine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 amEvery part of me wants to agree with you, but you are wrong. Schedules have gotten better, overtime is available here and there (little more scarce than last couple of years) meaning we have a good amount of crews, pay is low but you can make it work. As an FO, I was able to make it show around 75 k on my T4, and for a regional, that’s pretty good. As a captain, 6 figures is easy, mind you, I’m in training so that has its perks as well. I used to work hard for my money, not so much anymore. A decent contract is coming, so this place is going to get a little better. Yes, mainline is a ton better for pay and for scheduling. But if you like to fly close to home like me, regional flying can be fun. I’m not going to tell you to stay at Encore forever, it is not jazz, so it is not a long term place. Most of us will go to mainline when the number comes up, for good reason. But while your seniority goes up (one list meetings pending discussion), it’s a fantastic place to earn your stripes, get to know the Westjet family/culture, and sharpen those flying skills. The Q can be a handful to fly most of the time. And yes, I work an average of 14-16 days a month, next month I have 9 flying days.skybaron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
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Re: Hiring outlook
Check thanks.MrTurbine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:22 pm5 - 6 OT days a month including stand ups and lots of training pay did most of the trick.Yieldermatik wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:11 pm75k on your T4 as an FO? I would love to learn how you got there. Totally genuine question as I’d love to work up to that range as an FO too.MrTurbine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 am
Every part of me wants to agree with you, but you are wrong. Schedules have gotten better, overtime is available here and there (little more scarce than last couple of years) meaning we have a good amount of crews, pay is low but you can make it work. As an FO, I was able to make it show around 75 k on my T4, and for a regional, that’s pretty good. As a captain, 6 figures is easy, mind you, I’m in training so that has its perks as well. I used to work hard for my money, not so much anymore. A decent contract is coming, so this place is going to get a little better. Yes, mainline is a ton better for pay and for scheduling. But if you like to fly close to home like me, regional flying can be fun. I’m not going to tell you to stay at Encore forever, it is not jazz, so it is not a long term place. Most of us will go to mainline when the number comes up, for good reason. But while your seniority goes up (one list meetings pending discussion), it’s a fantastic place to earn your stripes, get to know the Westjet family/culture, and sharpen those flying skills. The Q can be a handful to fly most of the time. And yes, I work an average of 14-16 days a month, next month I have 9 flying days.
Re: Hiring outlook
I did my interview with Encore Jan 31. Got a email for back ground check on Feb 12, reference called on same day. Nothing after that and still waiting. Am I being placed in pool as well? or just too busy to reply me??
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Re: Hiring outlook
Disagree. Anyone that has zero good things to say about Encore is the type of person that has zero good things to say about any job.skybaron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
I second Mr. Turbines reply. It's generally a good and FUN place to work. Not a career stop, if you want a regional career Jazz is the place. If you want to flow to mainline with no hassle or interview then go to Encore.
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Re: Hiring outlook
As an Encore pilot I'd say Jazz is the way to go. It seems like it's a lot easier now to get over to AC from there, unless you mess up the interview.
Yes, Encore has guaranteed flow and (at the moment anyway) the "one list" for seniority. But please think about how long you'll be spending at Encore. It's not the 3 years to flow as it used to be in days gone by. With close to 600 pilots, and flow being 50-75 on a good year...well, do the math. Would you spend that long at Jazz? Who, it must be said have far better working conditions. I'm not expecting many improvements on our long-awaited contract. My prediction is just basic industry standard duty rigs and holding onto the one-list.
Yes, Encore has guaranteed flow and (at the moment anyway) the "one list" for seniority. But please think about how long you'll be spending at Encore. It's not the 3 years to flow as it used to be in days gone by. With close to 600 pilots, and flow being 50-75 on a good year...well, do the math. Would you spend that long at Jazz? Who, it must be said have far better working conditions. I'm not expecting many improvements on our long-awaited contract. My prediction is just basic industry standard duty rigs and holding onto the one-list.
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Re: Hiring outlook
So a new encore pilot would take roughly 10 years to flow? That sounds unreasonable.yvrpilot82 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:38 pm As an Encore pilot I'd say Jazz is the way to go. It seems like it's a lot easier now to get over to AC from there, unless you mess up the interview.
Yes, Encore has guaranteed flow and (at the moment anyway) the "one list" for seniority. But please think about how long you'll be spending at Encore. It's not the 3 years to flow as it used to be in days gone by. With close to 600 pilots, and flow being 50-75 on a good year...well, do the math. Would you spend that long at Jazz? Who, it must be said have far better working conditions. I'm not expecting many improvements on our long-awaited contract. My prediction is just basic industry standard duty rigs and holding onto the one-list.
Re: Hiring outlook
Wrong. After you’ve injected every orfice of koolaid and there’s nothing left but the realization you’ve been screwed by a Smurf, then, give your honest opinion. The morale at WJ is at its worst because of management capitalizing on attitudes like “its okay, because this is a stepping stone, and is way better than the 703 spot I came from”. Enter low wages and max days here. Don’t worry, you’ll get to be an FO at Teal for infinity, or you can upgrade at Pink, “because it’s better than the Q I flew at Encore”. Give your head a shake.BE02 Driver wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:35 pmDisagree. Anyone that has zero good things to say about Encore is the type of person that has zero good things to say about any job.skybaron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm If you want any sort of life outside of work - I would avoid Encore entirely. The guys that left there have ZERO positive things to say about the place. You will be worked to the max almost all the time, and your duty days will almost always be unnecessarily high in hours (not flight time). Encore’s contract is terrible, and judging by their 737 counterpart in their arbitrated outcome, things are likely going to get a lot worse.
Go anywhere but there. 2 cents.
I second Mr. Turbines reply. It's generally a good and FUN place to work. Not a career stop, if you want a regional career Jazz is the place. If you want to flow to mainline with no hassle or interview then go to Encore.
If you’re going to take a beating (because you certainly will) in Canada’s aviation industry, then at the very least, roll with the punches that you know you can take to still be standing in the 12th round.
Anyone under 40, I would skip the Circus that is now WJ Holdings, and DTO Air Canada as fast as possible via Jazz. You’re pension alone can’t be beat, and seniority means everything.
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Re: Hiring outlook
Christ... Everything ok man? Someone is salty about life. You obviously don’t have first hand info about CURRENT Encore so why waste time and stress over bashing it. I agree. If you want to go to AC, go to Jazz. End of story. You shouldn’t go to Encore if you don’t want to end up at WJ mainline. Simple really.
As an aside. Most airlines have solid Pilot Assistance Teams on call 24/7 to help if you’re going through a rough patch and are great people to talk to
As an aside. Most airlines have solid Pilot Assistance Teams on call 24/7 to help if you’re going through a rough patch and are great people to talk to
Re: Hiring outlook
You mean the members that left for AC?FlyAlberta wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:00 pm Christ... Everything ok man? Someone is salty about life. You obviously don’t have first hand info about CURRENT Encore so why waste time and stress over bashing it. I agree. If you want to go to AC, go to Jazz. End of story. You shouldn’t go to Encore if you don’t want to end up at WJ mainline. Simple really.
As an aside. Most airlines have solid Pilot Assistance Teams on call 24/7 to help if you’re going through a rough patch and are great people to talk to
Or how about contacting the 1 or maybe tops 2 Encore people with their CV’s submitted elsewhere for CURRENT status update.
Look, I don’t care either way. All I’m saying is that Teal culture went south (deny all you want),and it isn’t the place it used to be. If someone is going to invest time to build their career, then they may as well invest it where it will likely last and be rewarding.
If the OP has the option, go to Jazz.
Last edited by skybaron on Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:29 am, edited 3 times in total.