Beginning of Transat wave?

Discuss topics related to Air Transat.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

FL-280
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by FL-280 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:04 pm

History has shown us that there is no way in hell the lists would be merged. That is why it's called ACPA and not ALPA....

It would continue to run as a seperate company IMHO
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:52 pm

ALPA is date of hire blend.
---------- ADS -----------
  

FL-280
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by FL-280 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:40 pm

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:52 pm
ALPA is date of hire blend.

Thats fine , Air Canada is not ALPA and they would be the one buying
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:48 pm

FL-280 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:40 pm
TFTMB heavy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:52 pm
ALPA is date of hire blend.

Thats fine , Air Canada is not ALPA and they would be the one buying
I also said I only see it happening if ACPA joins ALPA...
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1590
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:26 pm

I suspect the top execs worry about more than what unions represent one employee group. They probably don't even care.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:45 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:26 pm
I suspect the top execs worry about more than what unions represent one employee group. They probably don't even care.
AC management has been proactive when it comes to avoiding labour disputes in the past 5-6 years. They got involved in the Jazz-GNN deal.
---------- ADS -----------
  

GATRKGA
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by GATRKGA » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:49 pm

Very interesting ...

Anyone remember how the Canadian / AC merger went through? Were they represented by the same union? I don't recall the details.

And what ended up being the animosity between AC and CDN pilots back in the day when this merger happened?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Ypilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by Ypilot » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:01 pm

Wow, amazing.

Seriously, it is really beautiful to see where this conversation is headed, there is a word for it, speculation.

Now. Let's say that I would really be an AC pilot like tsgas aka ex ts pilot, why would I be voicing out my opinion about the lifespan that is left at TS. Let me do some Freud analysis for you. Your life isn't what you thought it would be, and you regret it. But if TS would go under, what a good decision would it be anyway. Ok, sorry guys I am just leveling off.
---------- ADS -----------
  

DanWEC
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: 404

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by DanWEC » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:26 pm

One thing had always been a rock solid fact- if my financial advisor said he was also a pilot he'd be out faster than wow.
Always a narrow viewpoint.

Although rudder seems to have some sensible perspective.

I have no idea what TRZ's working capital looks like but I very much doubt it's critical. They bought a huge tract of land to develop, but also had to sell a previous chunk to generate cash.

Share price was likely overvalued in the last 12 months which, in my opinion, is a large reason why they been shedding and trending down. Anyhow, as mentioned they have far more assets than a traditional airline- It's not just investors providing backing for credit to lease airplanes to fly routes, hoping to generate a revenue stream from seats with no assets or cushion.
Tourism is never static. There will always be periods of loss and adjustment, just the way it is. As I said in a post earlier, look at tui's trajectory the last 5 years- identical to TRZ's.

From a pilots perspective- I think everyone's job is safe. Worst case if something happened in the future, as rudder said, they would get bought out, not fold.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sharklasers
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by Sharklasers » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:25 am

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:38 am

So all of you that ditched TS in the past few years for AC will end up behind the pilots that stayed at TS on the seniority list if they blend them.

You can rest assured that if the worst case scenerio merger happened the AC pilots would go down kicking and screaming. Article one of the ACPA contract says in the event of a merger the ACPA can void the contract and start from scratch, we can renegotiate all aspects of our contract and strike if needed. It would not be the warm DOH welcome you have pictured in your head. Even if ACPA goes ALPA the merger will not nessescarily be DOH, that is a myth. see the Virgin/Alaskan Merger if you want a very recent example, both alpa careers final outcome very diffèrent from straight DOH.
DOH and career expectations are to be looked at among other things.
I am not saying you wont get DOH, but its a long road from here to there.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by TFTMB heavy » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:46 pm

Sharklasers wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:25 am
TFTMB heavy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:38 am

So all of you that ditched TS in the past few years for AC will end up behind the pilots that stayed at TS on the seniority list if they blend them.

You can rest assured that if the worst case scenerio merger happened the AC pilots would go down kicking and screaming. Article one of the ACPA contract says in the event of a merger the ACPA can void the contract and start from scratch, we can renegotiate all aspects of our contract and strike if needed. It would not be the warm DOH welcome you have pictured in your head. Even if ACPA goes ALPA the merger will not nessescarily be DOH, that is a myth. see the Virgin/Alaskan Merger if you want a very recent example, both alpa careers final outcome very diffèrent from straight DOH.
DOH and career expectations are to be looked at among other things.
I am not saying you wont get DOH, but its a long road from here to there.
Nothing is ever a done deal but the Alaskan vs Virgin merger had two carries with very different histories and virgin being so young compared to Alaskan. Was a big factor in the decision, it went to a panel.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 863
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 02, 2019 1:22 pm

From experience.

If the two merging pilots groups can not come to an agreement on their own, the whole seniority bun fight goes to the labor board to decide. It doesn't matter ALPA's policy or ACPA's policy. Nor does it matter what the company may want or think. The only opinion that will matter is that of the arbitrator appointed by the labor board.

Again from experience. It is better to do a deal and avoid arbitration.
---------- ADS -----------
  

ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5765
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by ahramin » Thu May 02, 2019 4:26 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:22 pm
From experience.

If the two merging pilots groups can not come to an agreement on their own, the whole seniority bun fight goes to the labor board to decide. It doesn't matter ALPA's policy or ACPA's policy. Nor does it matter what the company may want or think. The only opinion that will matter is that of the arbitrator appointed by the labor board.

Again from experience. It is better to do a deal and avoid arbitration.
How could it be better? It's a zero sum situation. No matter what the arbitrator decides, the group as a whole is not better or worse off. If the deal has you on the bottom and the arbitrator puts you in the middle, how could the deal be better?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 863
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 02, 2019 6:58 pm

ahramin wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:26 pm
Fanblade wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:22 pm
From experience.

If the two merging pilots groups can not come to an agreement on their own, the whole seniority bun fight goes to the labor board to decide. It doesn't matter ALPA's policy or ACPA's policy. Nor does it matter what the company may want or think. The only opinion that will matter is that of the arbitrator appointed by the labor board.

Again from experience. It is better to do a deal and avoid arbitration.
How could it be better? It's a zero sum situation. No matter what the arbitrator decides, the group as a whole is not better or worse off. If the deal has you on the bottom and the arbitrator puts you in the middle, how could the deal be better?
No one understands the situation better than the individuals impacted. Injustices take place at the hands of those who don't really understand the complete ramifications of what they are doing.

Arbitration is a risk
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 863
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 02, 2019 7:09 pm

rudder wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:03 am
With a market cap under $200MM TRZ is a potential target for an unsolicited takeover offer.

There is a certain other related company sitting on $1B+ in cash. Acquiring TRZ and selling off non-operational assets would certainly improve its own competitive position and increase yields.
What if someone is looking at the tour operation side of Transat but doesn't want the airline side? Perhaps multiple purchases and consolidation. What value does the airline side of Transat have without the tour operation side?
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu May 02, 2019 7:34 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:09 pm
rudder wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:03 am
With a market cap under $200MM TRZ is a potential target for an unsolicited takeover offer.

There is a certain other related company sitting on $1B+ in cash. Acquiring TRZ and selling off non-operational assets would certainly improve its own competitive position and increase yields.
What if someone is looking at the tour operation side of Transat but doesn't want the airline side? Perhaps multiple purchases and consolidation. What value does the airline side of Transat have without the tour operation side?
Anything is possible, but the distribution Transat has is directly linked to the Airline. We currently have over 90% of the lift sold by the group. I suspect the airline side of the business is a big part of the deal being discussed.
---------- ADS -----------
  

RILEY
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:22 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by RILEY » Thu May 02, 2019 11:49 pm

Any word on application timelines & upcoming ground schools?
---------- ADS -----------
  

flyinhigh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: my couch

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by flyinhigh » Wed May 08, 2019 6:23 pm

September ground school was moved up to start on Monday, May 13th.

That is all I know.
---------- ADS -----------
  

bythenumbers
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by bythenumbers » Wed May 08, 2019 7:57 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:23 pm
September ground school was moved up to start on Monday, May 13th.

That is all I know.
How many ground schools were they running in September?
---------- ADS -----------
  

flyinhigh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: my couch

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by flyinhigh » Fri May 10, 2019 8:22 am

Sorry don't know. I only know the one course was bumped as I will be in attendance.
---------- ADS -----------
  

bythenumbers
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by bythenumbers » Fri May 10, 2019 8:32 am

When did you interview?
---------- ADS -----------
  

co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3412
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Beginning of Transat wave?

Post by co-joe » Fri May 24, 2019 3:15 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:26 pm
I suspect the top execs worry about more than what unions represent one employee group. They probably don't even care.
I suspect those execs know the best way to destabilise a pilot group is keep them in fighting as long and possible so that they don't get organised. Divide and conquer at its most basic level. Piss off AC pilots by giving TS pilots DOH, piss of Jazz pilots by circumnavigating the 80% guarantee they signed a 17 year deal for, and piss off the TS pilots by taking away their wide bodies and high credit flying. The more different unions at play the better from an exec point of view.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Air Transat”