Congrats
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: Congrats
Anyone know roughly how many aircraft and pilots at AT?
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Congrats
From ALPA:
At a Glance
Pilots joined ALPA: 1999
Number of pilots: 619
Pilot bases: Montreal, Que., and Toronto, Ont.
From PCC:
Fleet Types
16 Airbus A330-200 Wide-body Airliners,
4 Airbus A330-300 Wide-body Airliners,
7 Airbus A310-300 Wide-body Airliners,
1 Airbus A321-LR Airliner,
10 Airbus A321-200 Airliners,
14 Boeing B737-800NG Airliners.
NOTE: Winter Season Narrowbody Fleet increases to 14 B737-800NG and 10 Airbus A321's.
Aircraft Orders
2 Airbus A321neo Airliners,
14 Airbus A321neo-LR Airliners
NOTE: Airbus A321neo deliveries from 2019 to 2022.
Re: Congrats
I'm not so certain this isn't simply volley number 2 in a tit for tat bidding war.
Time will tell
Time will tell
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Re: Congrats
Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.
Re: Congrats
Lol. Got the PFO letter from AC did you?Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.
Re: Congrats
Plenty of people in Canada aren't interested in AC. It's not the end all for everyone.Rooster69 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:47 amLol. Got the PFO letter from AC did you?Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.
Last edited by Handover on Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Congrats
You guys should get ahead of it and get applications in, maybe get a seniority number at Sunwing before the mass exodus of your colleagues from TS that will no doubt be heading there before the AC acquisition. You've avoided it all this time, why give in now? Hurry!Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.
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Re: Congrats
Handover wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 amPlenty of people in Canada that wouldn't touch AC with a barge pole. It's not the end all for everyone.Rooster69 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:47 amLol. Got the PFO letter from AC did you?Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.
And no, I never applied, for me my current job is much better than anything AC could offer
Yup....rejected.
DP.
Re: Congrats
Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.
Re: Congrats
Agreed. If they do come to AC with this attitude, they're not going to make many friends.altiplano wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:18 pmYou guys should get ahead of it and get applications in, maybe get a seniority number at Sunwing before the mass exodus of your colleagues from TS that will no doubt be heading there before the AC acquisition. You've avoided it all this time, why give in now? Hurry!Yycjetdriver wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.
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Re: Congrats
As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.Warden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:13 pm Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.
Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.
IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
Re: Congrats
eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 amAs someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.Warden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:13 pm Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.
Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.
IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
Instead of shooting ourselves AT/AC pilots - as we earn almost the same peanuts - we should all work together as a team to improve our collective agreement if a merge happen (ours expires in less than a year btw)
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Re: Congrats
So why did you come back?eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.
Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.
IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
AC can pay so poorly because there are so many Canadian pilots, relative to the country's population. Obviously, there's more to it than just money if so many expats are willing to take a huge pay cut to come back. You can prioritize money, or the lifestyle and safety of living in Canada; of course everyone would like both, but when lifestyle is attractive enough to sacrifice pay, there's no motive for AC give any more than they are.
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Re: Congrats
I came back because my wife wanted to come back to be with her family. It was either that or get divorced. And no, I don't think the lifestyle here is better at all. 6 months of snow a year? You might like that, but it's not for everyone. Can you tell me what is better about the lifestyle here than... say Australia... where you get one month of vacation to start, along with twice the salary?Diadem wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 amSo why did you come back?eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.
Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.
IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
AC can pay so poorly because there are so many Canadian pilots, relative to the country's population. Obviously, there's more to it than just money if so many expats are willing to take a huge pay cut to come back. You can prioritize money, or the lifestyle and safety of living in Canada; of course everyone would like both, but when lifestyle is attractive enough to sacrifice pay, there's no motive for AC give any more than they are.
I know it was just Canada day, but you have a very small world view if you think the canadian lifestyle is the best.
Re: Congrats
AC is out front on pay and most metrics of work conditions vs. all the rest.
ACPA has made some significant mistakes - no doubt.
But what has also held us back - straight out of the government appointed arbitrator's ruling in 2012 - is the lesser contracts at Westjet and Air Transat where those sub-standard conditions were imposed on us despite being voted down by the members.
Why isn't WJ pay on par with SWA? or Alaska even? Why can't they even just top us here or there?
Overseas paid more? Largely due to superior tax regimes and the fact that no one would go unless it was significantly worth it financially.
US paid more? Because they all lift and push each other.
Canada? Nothing of the sort. AC has been out front of everyone in this country perpetually on pretty much everything. Pension, benefits, pay, working conditions. That's a fact. Even when we get it stolen away (Raitt), we worked to get it back (pension, YOS upgrade, more) and that took sacrifice... and yet we are still out front. When is someone else in this country going to try to get even close?
ACPA has made some significant mistakes - no doubt.
But what has also held us back - straight out of the government appointed arbitrator's ruling in 2012 - is the lesser contracts at Westjet and Air Transat where those sub-standard conditions were imposed on us despite being voted down by the members.
Why isn't WJ pay on par with SWA? or Alaska even? Why can't they even just top us here or there?
Overseas paid more? Largely due to superior tax regimes and the fact that no one would go unless it was significantly worth it financially.
US paid more? Because they all lift and push each other.
Canada? Nothing of the sort. AC has been out front of everyone in this country perpetually on pretty much everything. Pension, benefits, pay, working conditions. That's a fact. Even when we get it stolen away (Raitt), we worked to get it back (pension, YOS upgrade, more) and that took sacrifice... and yet we are still out front. When is someone else in this country going to try to get even close?
Re: Congrats
Sounds like you could be happier with a new marriage rather than a new company.eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:12 amI came back because my wife wanted to come back to be with her family. It was either that or get divorced. And no, I don't think the lifestyle here is better at all. 6 months of snow a year? You might like that, but it's not for everyone. Can you tell me what is better about the lifestyle here than... say Australia... where you get one month of vacation to start, along with twice the salary?Diadem wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 amSo why did you come back?eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.
Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.
IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
AC can pay so poorly because there are so many Canadian pilots, relative to the country's population. Obviously, there's more to it than just money if so many expats are willing to take a huge pay cut to come back. You can prioritize money, or the lifestyle and safety of living in Canada; of course everyone would like both, but when lifestyle is attractive enough to sacrifice pay, there's no motive for AC give any more than they are.
I know it was just Canada day, but you have a very small world view if you think the canadian lifestyle is the best.
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Re: Congrats
I've lived overseas, and I wouldn't go back. I like that I can hop down to the river and go fishing. I like that I can go out into the woods on Crown land and pitch a tent wherever I want without a reservation or permit. I like that I can go snowboarding in powder, not manufactured slush. I like that I can have a yard with grass for my kids to play in rather than an apartment crammed into an endless city or a condo in a compound with no personal space. I like that I can walk to two craft breweries from my house, and live five minutes from where I work.eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:12 am I came back because my wife wanted to come back to be with her family. It was either that or get divorced. And no, I don't think the lifestyle here is better at all. 6 months of snow a year? You might like that, but it's not for everyone. Can you tell me what is better about the lifestyle here than... say Australia... where you get one month of vacation to start, along with twice the salary?
I know it was just Canada day, but you have a very small world view if you think the canadian lifestyle is the best.
I don't care about the specifics of your circumstances. The point I was making is that there are a lot of Canadians who have gone overseas for work and are desperate to come back. Whether it's to make their families happy, to get their kids in better schools, to get out of an unstable country, whatever it is, they've decided that Canada is better despite lower wages. They, and you, are willing to sacrifice income for something in their personal lives, and they and you have increased the supply of pilots here by doing so. That keeps wages down, and AC knows that they will never run dry of pilots, even on what they already pay. You can bitch and moan about it, but you accepted their scale, so you're part of the reason that it won't go up. You can either live in Canada, or you can make absurd wages, but not both; you chose the former because of your personal priorities.
I would love to have both my own jet and my own house, but I can't, and I've chosen the house because it's more important to me. It would be pretty stupid of me to go whining to the bank about how they should give me a bunch of free money so I can have both when they don't stand to gain anything from it.