DOH merge.

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Habslover
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DOH merge.

Post by Habslover » Thu May 16, 2019 5:52 am

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

I feel we should accept nothing less then DOH seniority in a merger, If not better.

The dream of flying the 777 look like they may finally come true eh!
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HavaJava
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by HavaJava » Thu May 16, 2019 10:04 am

Honest question...

Why do you think you deserve “better” than DOH?
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John1234
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:06 am

Doh or better? Please explain
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Donald
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Donald » Thu May 16, 2019 10:08 am

.
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Last edited by Donald on Thu May 16, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

TSAM
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by TSAM » Thu May 16, 2019 10:12 am

DOH. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not that we are selling because of financial problems, we are being bought. So there isn't the option of BOTL (bottom of the list) or go join the unemployment line. If there's ever to be any damn pilot unity in Canada, the right thing would be DOH. Anything different will create such a mess and animosity.

I know many at AC are crying about DOH merger, relax, in 5-10 yrs almost half the pilots at TS will have likely retired (my guessimation). Those with +10 yrs to go at AC will hardly notice.
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 16, 2019 10:26 am

Unless you find middle ground with the other pilot group it will go to arbitration. No one's contract matters. The union protocol doesn't matter. Only the opinion of the arbitrator matters.

Arbitration is a crap shoot.

Find a fair solution. Everyone will regret it if you dont
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Last edited by Fanblade on Thu May 16, 2019 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Victory
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Victory » Thu May 16, 2019 10:29 am

Just be careful you don't set yourself up for disappointment. I mean no disrespect at all but it doesn't really matter what you accept. AC doesn't really need you. It needs your airplanes, and slots etc. which they are possibly buying for less than the price of a couple 787's.
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Ironman2909
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Ironman2909 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:32 am

Why should I let you in my house without compromise. I'm sorry but if this transaction comes to fruition, there will need to be compromised from both sides. Why should I let you come in my house and let you make all the gains and me loose all that I have work for...sorry.
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John1234
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:41 am

Agreed, many of us spent years at regionals paying our dues for the chance at mainline. While people left for a career at Transat and now have the opportunity to just come back and slide Ahead of all who worked towards ac. Or the many that left Transat recently for ac who would now be bipassed.
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pilotbzh
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by pilotbzh » Thu May 16, 2019 10:43 am

It will be BOTL with protections on equipements and bases and you will get a raise...
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 16, 2019 10:56 am

Guys/ Gals,

You live in Canada. The Transat pilots time in will not be discounted. They will be treated as equals infront of an arbitrator. You can come up with all the rationalizations you want. It won't matter.

The only thing you will gaurantee is arbitration by taking a position that your time is more valuable than someone else's.
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fish4life
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by fish4life » Thu May 16, 2019 11:10 am

Wouldn’t the CIRB be involved most likely? Also whoever said AC doesn’t need the pilots at transat may want to rethink where they are going to find 600 pilots overnight
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Sharklasers
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Sharklasers » Thu May 16, 2019 11:12 am

Ironman2909 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:32 am
Why should I let you in my house without compromise. I'm sorry but if this transaction comes to fruition, there will need to be compromised from both sides. Why should I let you come in my house and let you make all the gains and me loose all that I have work for...sorry.
OP is a troll so don't get too worked up.


Further it's not 'your house'. The executives are going to make a business decision as is their right and we will be left dealing with the fallout just the same as our Transat peers. I agree with you that they likely stand to gain more from it than us but I believe DOH is the only reasonable solution here. Us jr AC pilot's will have to eat a little shit here but the DOH outcome is much better than a ratio'd or position group merger as could be determined by an arbitrator in my opinion. At the end of the day I don't believe we want this thing flying off the rails like the Canadian merger who's wounds still haven't fully healed.
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Dry Guy
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Dry Guy » Thu May 16, 2019 11:14 am

fish4life wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:10 am
Wouldn’t the CIRB be involved most likely? Also whoever said AC doesn’t need the pilots at transat may want to rethink where they are going to find 600 pilots overnight
Well they are currently paying 500 pilots to sit at home and do nothing for months.
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jean-Pierre » Thu May 16, 2019 11:20 am

I think everyone is getting worked up over nothing. I don't think they will merge the company. At least not with Mainline. Maybe with Rouge but that was a risk they took when they left Mainline for Rouge so they can not cry foul too much about that.
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Sharklasers
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Sharklasers » Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 am

Jean-Pierre wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:20 am
I think everyone is getting worked up over nothing. I don't think they will merge the company. At least not with Mainline. Maybe with Rouge but that was a risk they took when they left Mainline for Rouge so they can not cry foul too much about that.

They can't. Why do you people keep saying it?

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 23006a.pdf

1.02.1 All Pilot Positions and all flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or its Affiliates, including all flying utilizing the Company IATA designator code (AC or ACA) or future similar designator code will be occupied and performed by Air Canada Pilots exclusively in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement.
Such Company flying will include, without limitation, all revenue, non-revenue, scheduled, unscheduled, passenger, cargo, placement, ferry, charter, scheduled charter, sports charter, training, maintenance test flights and publicity flights

1.05.10 If Air Canada is involved in a merger or acquisition and the pilots of the merged or acquired carrier are consolidated with Air Canada’s Pilots, then any aircraft of the merged carrier that are added to the mainline fleet shall not count as Mainline Baseline WJA, Mainline Baseline NJA, Mainline Growth WJA, Mainline Growth NJA, or for the Growth Ratios as defined in L74.01

Simple put;
A.) For the Aircraft to go to Rouge the pilots would have to be merged.
B.) The merged Aircraft will not be able to be used against the rouge growth shrink ratio.
C.) the Rouge growth shrink ratio at this time does not allow for anymore widebody aircraft to be added
D.) The rouge growth shrink ratio as is stands today has room for approx 8 new fins to be added to rouge.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Yycjetdriver » Thu May 16, 2019 11:36 am

This really sucks for the fine folks who went to AT because they had no desire to work at AC. Pay cuts for the people who were in their early years at Transat it looks like.
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Sharklasers
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Sharklasers » Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 am

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:36 am
This really sucks for the fine folks who went to AT because they had no desire to work at AC. Pay cuts for the people who were in their early years at Transat it looks like.
And massive raises for those on property for more than 4, what's your point?
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Victory
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Victory » Thu May 16, 2019 11:40 am

Sharklasers wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 am
1.05.10 If Air Canada is involved in a merger or acquisition and the pilots of the merged or acquired carrier are consolidated with Air Canada’s Pilots
What if they aren't.
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Sharklasers
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Sharklasers » Thu May 16, 2019 11:47 am

Victory wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:40 am
Sharklasers wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 am
1.05.10 If Air Canada is involved in a merger or acquisition and the pilots of the merged or acquired carrier are consolidated with Air Canada’s Pilots
What if they aren't.
All flying done by Air Canada or their affiliates will be done by Air Canada pilots. This included Rouge. It's the basis of the entire scope clause.

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 23006a.pdf

1.02.1 All Pilot Positions and all flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or its Affiliates, including all flying utilizing the Company IATA designator code (AC or ACA) or future similar designator code will be occupied and performed by Air Canada Pilots exclusively in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement.
Such Company flying will include, without limitation, all revenue, non-revenue, scheduled, unscheduled, passenger, cargo, placement, ferry, charter, scheduled charter, sports charter, training, maintenance test flights and publicity flights



Also how would you propose merging in Air Transat planes and pilots to rouge without merging the pilots?
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Victory
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Victory » Thu May 16, 2019 11:55 am

Send the 330's to Mainline, NB's to Rouge. Sell the 310's. Pilot's, the application portal is over there.
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yycflyguy
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by yycflyguy » Thu May 16, 2019 11:58 am

Dry Guy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:14 am
fish4life wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:10 am
Wouldn’t the CIRB be involved most likely? Also whoever said AC doesn’t need the pilots at transat may want to rethink where they are going to find 600 pilots overnight
Well they are currently paying 500 pilots to sit at home and do nothing for months.
It's more like 250
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Habslover
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Habslover » Thu May 16, 2019 12:19 pm

BOTL I don’t think so my friends, I tink it should be more along the line of where I sit on my current seniority list now, no?

Why should I go DOH when it’s only 8 yrs ago I was hired, when I sit at 48% seniority on my list? I won’t be 48% at AC if I go DOH. That not good for me.

I should merge at 48% seniority on AC list, no?

I should also get to hold my uh left seat tree turdy as well, no?

AC pilot seem very hostile today, no?
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu May 16, 2019 12:44 pm

My guess is that Ac will come up with a plan that creates little to no labour dispute. Anything that has to be negotiated between the unions will be a mess and I doubt AC wants that.
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flyer 1492
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by flyer 1492 » Thu May 16, 2019 12:59 pm

Before any seniority issues are dealt with, there will have to be a representation vote.
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