DOH merge.

Discuss topics related to Air Transat.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

Post Reply
flashheart
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:09 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by flashheart » Thu May 16, 2019 1:56 pm

No way Transat goes to the BOTL. If it was an Alberta pipeline, it probably would, but a Montreal Based company need not worry.

DOH is unlikely as AC didn’t even use DOH for its own list
---------- ADS -----------
  

Duke Point
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:42 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Duke Point » Thu May 16, 2019 2:29 pm

As an AC'er, date of hire is very reasonable. Fences may be required for a specified period.

The Transat guys DID NOT ask for this, a merger will be forced.

They have mortgages, families and career aspirations just like every AC pilot does.

I disagree that newer hires at AC will be inconvenienced much. There has been unprecidented growth and upgrades are occurring in as little as two years. I would hardly call this a time of hardship for anyone at AC.

With the number of fins Transat will bring, swallowing 600 pilots will be easy. They will only constitute 12% of a merged body.

DP.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Impact
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:28 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Impact » Thu May 16, 2019 2:36 pm

Duke has an extremely valid point.

DOH with fences is the only rational way to go.
---------- ADS -----------
  

North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5335
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: DOH merge.

Post by North Shore » Thu May 16, 2019 2:57 pm

flyer 1492 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:59 pm
Before any seniority issues are dealt with, there will have to be a representation vote.
Before that occurs, there has to be a firm deal in place between AC and AT..
---------- ADS -----------
  
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.

John1234
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 2:58 pm

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve heard transat hiring extremely low time pilots. So they hit the lotto and slide ahead of everybody who put the time making penny’s at express? And actually flying throughout Canada before that? Your right the 23 yr old instructor deservers that spot over the ex transat skipper who just left to come to Ac, or the express captains who put in the time. That’s the difference between being a wide body cpt in your career. Potentially millions of dollars on the table. Couldn’t agree more.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TSAM
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by TSAM » Thu May 16, 2019 3:00 pm

Wrong. Most hires have 3-5k+ TT. Most came from a regional or corp and had previous 705/jet time.
---------- ADS -----------
  

John1234
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:01 pm

Ohhh so they left regional, now they deserve to come back ahead of everybody that stuck it out.

I mean it’s aviation, makes perfect sense....
---------- ADS -----------
  

Mapleflt
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Mapleflt » Thu May 16, 2019 3:58 pm

AC wants the AT Neo's and delivery their future options so they can ditch the 737 Max "public perception" issue. Progress from the regionals or OTS just came to a grinding halt. The overall Canadian aviation industry is evolving and now trying to find its "new" happy place, grab a chair.
---------- ADS -----------
  

John1234
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:00 pm

Wrong, air canada fully intends on taking all 737maxs. It will take the travelling public all of a month to forget about it. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear the max is siltently renamed. The public will not know the difference.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
infiniteregulus
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:46 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by infiniteregulus » Thu May 16, 2019 4:03 pm

I think it's complete garbage that they should get DOH or any advantage over an AC guy on property today. Seniority is FAR more important than status or pay for some. Especially with commuters - how will the pass travel be affected? Lifestyle with a block could turn into hell on reserve. Send the AT guys BOTL and top up their pay if you'd like, but like previously stated posts, it's morally wrong for them to bypass those who worked so hard and sacrificed so much to get where they are today at AC. With 600 numbers pushing you down, that's huge - almost 6 years worth of career setback! They got bought. Sucks for them but hey, the company they chose to work for got bought. Business is life. Like war, you get conquered. AT was conquered so how are they reaping the rewards in this transaction? (I know CR could care less and is a gain for AC as a company, but the workforce applies just as much)
---------- ADS -----------
  

John1234
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:14 pm

Ahmen, id like to see the transat pay scale, see the difference that these guys and gals could be walking into. It makes no sense, everybody knew the risk being at transat. They chose that route. They should have to sacrifice what the rest of is did to get to Ac. I mean I’ve only been a pilot for 10 years and I’ve never never cracked 80k yr. I’ve flown in the shittiest places canada has to offer to get to where I am today. But your right I don’t deserve my seniority, I should keep fending off the bottom. But one day after 400at Pilots slide ahead I’ll finally reach the life goal of being able to afford guac on my burrito. Just delay it by 5 years no big deal.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Duke Point
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:42 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Duke Point » Thu May 16, 2019 5:04 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:03 pm
I think it's complete garbage that they should get DOH or any advantage over an AC guy on property today. Seniority is FAR more important than status or pay for some. Especially with commuters - how will the pass travel be affected? Lifestyle with a block could turn into hell on reserve. Send the AT guys BOTL and top up their pay if you'd like, but like previously stated posts, it's morally wrong for them to bypass those who worked so hard and sacrificed so much to get where they are today at AC. With 600 numbers pushing you down, that's huge - almost 6 years worth of career setback! They got bought. Sucks for them but hey, the company they chose to work for got bought. Business is life. Like war, you get conquered. AT was conquered so how are they reaping the rewards in this transaction? (I know CR could care less and is a gain for AC as a company, but the workforce applies just as much)
So its about conquering and punishing....or enslaving? This is Canada man.

I don't like it either. DOH costs me plenty.

If ACPA doesn't propose something fair, the CIRB will. Real simple.



What happens if Onex does real well, and WestJet "conquers" AC? Does every Encore and Swoop pilot go to the front of the bus? Doesn't work that way here.

DP.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
infiniteregulus
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:46 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by infiniteregulus » Thu May 16, 2019 5:22 pm

You'll probably lose about $2 million dollars for a 5 year set back plus 5 years of junior schedules (5 years of 777CA pay plus 5 years of juniorCA pay differential..roughly). That's the cost to you for it being fair. Air Canada and Transat aren't even the same level of operation. I can see a AC & Westjet merger as being SOMEWHAT even ground, but a 4000 pilot company vs a 600 pilot company is not even the same ballpark. Extrapolate it further and imagine if CMA merged with Air Canada, should those senior pilots merge into the list DOH? Air Canada now has that 90% hiring from regional thing, so the influx is from a regional meaning guys paying dues to get where they are. To go through the backdoor with the merger is just wrong against those who chose to play by the rules and stick it out loyally. It's a slap in the face to all those new hires in the last 5 years. Do the AT guys have to go through the psych test and interview process, or do they jump that as well?
Let me add you'll be paying into those 500 plus AT pilots' new AC pensions as well after they retire..
And PLUS you better hope any layoffs don't hit your new low seniority number below 500 pilots, cause you'll be on the street making nothing. But at least it's fair, right??...
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by infiniteregulus on Thu May 16, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Goldencondor
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Goldencondor » Thu May 16, 2019 5:23 pm

Yes if West Jet buys AC then AC pilots are shit out of luck. This is not a merger its a take over from a business perspecivd. Scince AC is not buying the assets but the shares they have to respect the actual union labor. There will be negotiations and neither BOTL or DOH will win. So much involved, equipment bid, block/reserve.... oh jesus the fabulous course rights! Using one to go on an equipment that better your QOL and being pushed down on reserve because x amount of people bypassed the list now you are stuck there amd used the course.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Just another canuck
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1922
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 am
Location: The Lake.

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Just another canuck » Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm

AT is not being conquered. AC wants to purchase it so their competitors do not. If Onex or TUI or some Chinese company buys it, that's bad for AC and therefore, bad for the pilot group. Long term, AC taking over AT is better for the entire AC community than if a competitor were to take it over.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.

User avatar
RRJetPilot
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 10:43 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by RRJetPilot » Thu May 16, 2019 7:04 pm

Just another canuck wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
AT is not being conquered. AC wants to purchase it so their competitors do not. If Onex or TUI or some Chinese company buys it, that's bad for AC and therefore, bad for the pilot group. Long term, AC taking over AT is better for the entire AC community than if a competitor were to take it over.
Exactly
---------- ADS -----------
  

Habslover
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Habslover » Thu May 16, 2019 7:05 pm

I’m very proud of my Air Transat family, we have fought a long hard battle, with many ups and downs through out the years with many from the AC side mocking us, oh how amusing it will be to walk into flight operations and see those same guys again whom will now most likely be Junior to us, it is well deserved my friends we worked hard and now the pay off is coming!
---------- ADS -----------
  

L39Guy
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:04 pm
Location: Canada

Re: DOH merge.

Post by L39Guy » Thu May 16, 2019 7:12 pm

Duke Point wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:29 pm
As an AC'er, date of hire is very reasonable. Fences may be required for a specified period.

The Transat guys DID NOT ask for this, a merger will be forced.

They have mortgages, families and career aspirations just like every AC pilot does.

I disagree that newer hires at AC will be inconvenienced much. There has been unprecidented growth and upgrades are occurring in as little as two years. I would hardly call this a time of hardship for anyone at AC.

With the number of fins Transat will bring, swallowing 600 pilots will be easy. They will only constitute 12% of a merged body.

DP.
Well said and I agree and I am AC as well. This is my 3rd merger and DOH is entirely fair.

I would add too that TS is bringing high quality jobs - narrow body Airbus and Boeing’s as well as A330’s - to the merger.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu May 16, 2019 7:17 pm

When you have the 700 TSC pilots show up we will be bringing airplanes. I fail to see how this could delay anyone’s career progression? I foresee a 5 year red circle of the was a list merge.

Besides, the level of emotion is way to elevated for this stage of the process, don’t blow your wad in the first km of the marathon.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu May 16, 2019 7:20 pm

Habslover wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:05 pm
I’m very proud of my Air Transat family, we have fought a long hard battle, with many ups and downs through out the years with many from the AC side mocking us, oh how amusing it will be to walk into flight operations and see those same guys again whom will now most likely be Junior to us, it is well deserved my friends we worked hard and now the pay off is coming!
I hope you have enough class to not act that way towards your new coworkers.
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm

Habslover wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:19 pm
BOTL I don’t think so my friends, I tink it should be more along the line of where I sit on my current seniority list now, no?

Why should I go DOH when it’s only 8 yrs ago I was hired, when I sit at 48% seniority on my list? I won’t be 48% at AC if I go DOH. That not good for me.

I should merge at 48% seniority on AC list, no?

I should also get to hold my uh left seat tree turdy as well, no?

AC pilot seem very hostile today, no?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,,,

Too funny! You write that shit pretty good...
---------- ADS -----------
  

vrefplus5
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:04 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by vrefplus5 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:25 am

He does write Trollese quite well indeed! :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
  

TFTMB heavy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy » Fri May 17, 2019 5:27 am

Habslover is a new account made just to stir the pot, let's not feed the troll.
---------- ADS -----------
  

SOBIESKI
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by SOBIESKI » Fri May 17, 2019 5:52 am

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:27 am
Habslover is a new account made just to stir the pot, let's not feed the troll.
Riiight....Only people who have "gained" credibility on a forum hiding behind a username should be allowed to comment.

:prayer:
---------- ADS -----------
  

Habslover
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Habslover » Fri May 17, 2019 10:03 am

TFTMB Heavy,

Who are you? Do you fly the uh A tree turdy? I think not!
Are you 60 or are you 16 playing de flight Simu Lator???

You call me a troll, Ha. My wife call me the same thing when I’m down between er legs, yes! Both times I am enjoying myself....

Anyway, I have a departure to make to make my was across de Atlantic to the coast of France. My partner is also very ‘appy to join AC we both have big dreams to fly the Boeing 777. He figured he will be top 10%! It is truly amazing.

On a nodder note, who is in charge of de training? I would like to join the training dept. as checker as soon as possible.

Have a great day friends.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Air Transat”