DOH merge.

Discuss topics related to Air Transat.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Jettime3
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:07 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jettime3 »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:40 am There is so much garbage and venom on this thread, I have no desire to read it.
We are just pawns in a game played by others. I am not going to argue with other pawns who like me, have no control over what is happening, it's useless.
I am just going to continue to do my job, with a positive attitude, courtesy, respect and professionalism, regardless of what happens.

In the meantime, we should all make sure that the people we selected at our Unions to defend our interests are trusted and respected by our respective groups, to that we support them the day that they ask to sign on the dotted line.
Hey Gilles , you speak of venom . Remember the garbage and venom you gave Canjet pilots?

We remember you as an instigator to bring the 737 flying inhouse to TS and I do not recall you wanting to welcome us over to TS to fly our birds. You and your cronies wanted it. That went well didn't it?

I should thank you for not working with our unions to bring us over , even if it may have been BOTL .

I am at AC now and I am the guy who will stand strong with ACPA to see you at the BOTL because our contract is firm on it . This isn't a merger. We bought TS because they were losing money daily and would have been the next charter go out of business. Funny how things turn around buddy . Your turn now. AT operting on behalf of Air Canada might save your DOH. Say bonjour to your shareholders for me .
---------- ADS -----------
 
Fanblade
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1693
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

Jettime3 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am

I am at AC now and I am the guy who will stand strong with ACPA to see you at the BOTL because our contract is firm on it .
That language isn’t worth the the paper it is written on. I’m absolutely serious here. We negotiate or else an arbitrator does it. That simple.
Jettime3 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am
This isn't a merger. We bought TS because they were losing money daily and would have been the next charter go out of business.
Merger simply means integration. An arbitrator will not care why the integration is taking place.

I suggest you talk to an ACPA rep to get your expectations in check
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

This isn't a merger. We bought TS because they were losing money daily and would have been the next charter go out of business
funny ...the more ignorant a person is and the more positive he is in his opinions.
You bought nobody; it’s the corporation you work for who initially went to AT offices in 2018 to talk about the idea of a partnership. Transat was not looking for a savior at this stage. AC did a smart move with their offer before Onex; this might keep you away from a layoff...you’re welcome.
---------- ADS -----------
 
lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by lownslow »

Jettime3 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am BOTL because our contract is firm on it
Can anyone cite a contract where this isn’t the case?
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

A partnership? No it isn't. Transat is being bought pending various approvals... and they are losing money until that happens.

There is no BOTL in the contract. There would be no BOTL in the event of a seniority list integration in arbitration. Any AC guys throwing that idea around are right up there with Habslover and his ideas.

But since AC bought the company, it is now AC flying, and AC flying is ACPA flying, that's in our contract and the corporation has said they will fully respect that.

There are many ways this could play out. It depends on how AC wants to integrate Transat AT and it's assets/operations. It might seem semantic, but AC isn't buying Air Transat, they are buying Transat AT.

Transat AT is the company, not Air Transat, they are not the same thing.

Transat AT isn't an airline they are a travel and tour operator which happens to feed a part of their flying to a seperate business unit, Air Transat. Now and in the past they have also fed that flying to Canjet, Westjet, Flair, various wet leases, etc.

This leaves a lot of what ifs that will depend on how AC wants to do it. We'll have to see how things are going to land.

Read it for yourselves:

The deal is with Transat AT.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019-06 ... -Companies
Air Canada and Transat A.T. Inc. announced today that they have concluded a definitive Arrangement Agreement that provides for Air Canada's acquisition of all issued and outstanding shares of Transat

Notice that there are seperate "About Transat AT" and "About Air Transat" links on the Transat website.

https://www.transat.com/en-CA/corporate ... 1563382936
Transat A.T. Inc. is a leading integrated international tourism company specializing in holiday travel. It offers vacation packages, hotel stays and air travel under the Transat and Air Transat brands to some 60 destinations in more than 25 countries in the Americas and Europe.

https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/Corpor ... ir-transat
Air Transat is a business unit of Transat A.T. Inc., a leading integrated international tourism company specializing in holiday travel and offering vacation packages, hotel stays and air travel.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

A partnership? No it isn't.
I never said it is...
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

There are many ways this could play out. It depends on how AC wants to integrate Transat AT and it's assets/operations. It might seem semantic, but AC isn't buying Air Transat, they are buying Transat AT.

Transat AT is the company, not Air Transat, they are not the same thing.
Have a look at the Labour code and acquisition laws and you will see that there are not so many ways as you might think. They are buying Transat and all what comes with it. Rules are pretty strict to the buyer.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by FL320 on Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TFTMB heavy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 656
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy »

Jettime3 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:40 am There is so much garbage and venom on this thread, I have no desire to read it.
We are just pawns in a game played by others. I am not going to argue with other pawns who like me, have no control over what is happening, it's useless.
I am just going to continue to do my job, with a positive attitude, courtesy, respect and professionalism, regardless of what happens.

In the meantime, we should all make sure that the people we selected at our Unions to defend our interests are trusted and respected by our respective groups, to that we support them the day that they ask to sign on the dotted line.
Hey Gilles , you speak of venom . Remember the garbage and venom you gave Canjet pilots?

We remember you as an instigator to bring the 737 flying inhouse to TS and I do not recall you wanting to welcome us over to TS to fly our birds. You and your cronies wanted it. That went well didn't it?

I should thank you for not working with our unions to bring us over , even if it may have been BOTL .

I am at AC now and I am the guy who will stand strong with ACPA to see you at the BOTL because our contract is firm on it . This isn't a merger. We bought TS because they were losing money daily and would have been the next charter go out of business. Funny how things turn around buddy . Your turn now. AT operting on behalf of Air Canada might save your DOH. Say bonjour to your shareholders for me .
I was on the TSC MEC when all of the Canjet flying was being brought in house. The TSC MEC was never approached for any sort of integration of your crews. From what I saw, Canjet started there own tour operator and wanted to keep some crews to fly the planes they had left, by then many Canjet pilots had left and all that applied at TS were granted an automatic interview.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

FL320 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:36 pm
There are many ways this could play out. It depends on how AC wants to integrate Transat AT and it's assets/operations. It might seem semantic, but AC isn't buying Air Transat, they are buying Transat AT.

Transat AT is the company, not Air Transat, they are not the same thing.
Have a look at the Labour code and acquisition laws and you will see that there are not so many ways as you might think. They are buying Transat and all what comes with it. Rules are pretty strict to the buyer.
Labour code doesn't dictate what AC does with Transat.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

altiplano wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:49 pm
FL320 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:36 pm
There are many ways this could play out. It depends on how AC wants to integrate Transat AT and it's assets/operations. It might seem semantic, but AC isn't buying Air Transat, they are buying Transat AT.

Transat AT is the company, not Air Transat, they are not the same thing.
Have a look at the Labour code and acquisition laws and you will see that there are not so many ways as you might think. They are buying Transat and all what comes with it. Rules are pretty strict to the buyer.
Labour code doesn't dictate what AC does with Transat.
https://www.dentons.com/~/media/FMC%20I ... yment.ashx
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

I'm not reading your report, I don't care.

You are missing my basic statement. There are a lot of what ifs on how AC integrates the companies.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

altiplano wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:40 pm I'm not reading your report, I don't care.
I hope you don’t have the same attitude in the flight deck (especially if you’re in the left seat) :shock:
I just want to share some infos since you seem to be concerned with the transaction...now if the only person you want to hear is yourself then there’s nothing we can do; or ask Colin: he has your answers.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

What's your problem?

You are questioning my work and the professionalism I take on the job.

You seem to not grasp what I said and your report is irrelevant to my statement. I'm not wasting any more time trying to explain that to you.

Go float a boat.
---------- ADS -----------
 
yycflyguy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by yycflyguy »

FL320 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:12 pm
altiplano wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:49 pm
FL320 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:36 pm

Have a look at the Labour code and acquisition laws and you will see that there are not so many ways as you might think. They are buying Transat and all what comes with it. Rules are pretty strict to the buyer.
Labour code doesn't dictate what AC does with Transat.
https://www.dentons.com/~/media/FMC%20I ... yment.ashx
I didn't read the entire link either but I do want to point out that it was a published opinion by a law firm. One thing I have learned about lawyers; they are right about 50% of the time! :lol: Like Fanblade says: if it can't be negotiated, it'll be decided by an arbitrator that has a 50% probability of "getting it right".
---------- ADS -----------
 
mmm..bacon
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by mmm..bacon »

^ Newton's 4th (and lesser known) Law: For every opinion, there's an equal and opposite opinion
---------- ADS -----------
 
Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two!
Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Jettime3 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:40 am There is so much garbage and venom on this thread, I have no desire to read it.
We are just pawns in a game played by others. I am not going to argue with other pawns who like me, have no control over what is happening, it's useless.
I am just going to continue to do my job, with a positive attitude, courtesy, respect and professionalism, regardless of what happens.

In the meantime, we should all make sure that the people we selected at our Unions to defend our interests are trusted and respected by our respective groups, to that we support them the day that they ask to sign on the dotted line.
Hey Gilles , you speak of venom . Remember the garbage and venom you gave Canjet pilots?

We remember you as an instigator to bring the 737 flying inhouse to TS and I do not recall you wanting to welcome us over to TS to fly our birds. You and your cronies wanted it. That went well didn't it?

I should thank you for not working with our unions to bring us over , even if it may have been BOTL .

I am at AC now and I am the guy who will stand strong with ACPA to see you at the BOTL because our contract is firm on it . This isn't a merger. We bought TS because they were losing money daily and would have been the next charter go out of business. Funny how things turn around buddy . Your turn now. AT operting on behalf of Air Canada might save your DOH. Say bonjour to your shareholders for me .
Dont blame me for your memory lapses. It's all documented, right here on AvCanada. But I'm not going to waste my time on you.

What joy you must be to work with.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Duke Point
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:42 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Duke Point »

There are a few here who think BOTL is a possibility. It isn't. ACPA won't even propose it as an opening move as they know it will damage our position in front of an Arbitrator down the road.

There will be ONE seniority list. There will not be a separate list for pilots who do Transat flying, or Rouge flying, or Tango flying, or Zip flying. All flights flown on behalf of AC will be done by pilots on a "single" ACPA seniority list. Period.

Most of us here are fully aware that the details seniority integration are going to be decided by our Union reps using rational formulas, and will very likely include the input of an Arbitrator.

There will be those who decide to make it personal, but they will be relatively few, as most pilots here are intelligent. Most are also rational, and good to work with. Those, including myself will welcome any Transat pilot.

DP.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Jean-Pierre
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:56 pm

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jean-Pierre »

It is a bit naive to say it is not even a possibility considering that is what the contract currently stipulates and the company has explicitly said it will honor that contract.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Duke Point
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:42 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by Duke Point »

Naïve???

When was the last time you saw BOTL when two carriers flying similar equipment merge?

Remember we're living in Canada. We operate under an entirely unique "fairness" paradigm that clearly favors the poor/underdog/disadvantaged.

No one will "win".

DP.
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2405
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: DOH merge.

Post by fish4life »

Jean-Pierre wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:33 am It is a bit naive to say it is not even a possibility considering that is what the contract currently stipulates and the company has explicitly said it will honor that contract.
the CLC trumps a contract provision
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Transat”