DOH merge.

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indieadventurer
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by indieadventurer » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:29 pm

altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:35 pm
It's the smart move for any Transat investor who wants to get paid.
This deal seems off. Mach said they want to secure "at least" 6.9 million shares. If the AC deal is voted down, won't the share price drop back to pre-merger discussion prices? Mach is then holding "at least" 6.9 million shares they paid $14 per share for and which are now trading at $6. What am I missing here?
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Maybe, but I doubt it. The value is now established.

Recall they were offering $14/share for the whole company only weeks ago, they don't care about share price gains, they're looking to buy the company.

But if I'm a shareholder, I don't risk it. I go for $14, it's better than $13 without any uncertainty.
Yes is voted I get $13 in a year. No is voted I get $14 in a week.

Or if I think the value is there I hold my shares and vote No myself.

Transat execs are voting for paying themselves, that's it. Their handling of the deal with AC stinks.

You are thinking like a pilot:
"Pilots always vote 'Yes'" - Robert A. Milton.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:03 pm

FL320 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:54 pm
altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:35 pm
It's the smart move for any Transat investor who wants to get paid.
No it’s not. I am one of them, like many colleagues and for my own interest I will vote for AC 😉
You are also voting for interests apart from the share price - your own career interest.

Otherwise why not take $14? You are willing to sell at a lower price? Are you not a capitalist?

I think there are shareholders more savvy than that.
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indieadventurer
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by indieadventurer » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:32 pm

That value of $14 was established in their original offer, now off the table, to purchase all outstanding shares and take the company private.

What guarantee have they provided that once they’ve acquired at least 19.5% at $14 that they will buy out the balance of the shares that they’ve been given voting control over, for $14. Do they have funding for more than 20% at that price?

If I recall, in the interview Chiara gave he mentioned they are only looking to be a minority partner at the moment.
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Just another canuck
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Just another canuck » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:44 pm

indieadventurer wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:32 pm
That value of $14 was established in their original offer, now off the table, to purchase all outstanding shares and take the company private.

What guarantee have they provided that once they’ve acquired at least 19.5% at $14 that they will buy out the balance of the shares that they’ve been given voting control over, for $14. Do they have funding for more than 20% at that price?

If I recall, in the interview Chiara gave he mentioned they are only looking to be a minority partner at the moment.
But altiplano says everyone is getting 14 bucks guaranteed next week and it's a no brainer to hand their vote over to Mach. 🙄
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:14 pm

That's not what I said. If you give your proxy to Mach and it's "No" you got $14 guaranteed.

If you don't give it and it's"No" you're riding the chances.

Either way if it's "Yes", you're probably $13.

So to me, particularly if I'm happy at $13, why wouldn't I take Mach's offer. You will get $13 or $14. It's a great way to hedge the outcome here, and on a positive side.

If you don't and it's a "No" that's a chance you take...

Minority stake? That's what Mach has to propose with this strategy. If they move to acquire 20% it enacts a shareholder rights provision, aka poison pill, that gives the BOD the right to prevent Mach from making proposals directly to individual shareholders.

19.5% is a clear strategy, it's not some half baked number out of the blue.

I think it's one of the more interesting business stories in this country in a while.

Maybe you guys don't understand the strategy.

There's a reason Transat execs are pissed. If this flops they aren't getting their pay day and they're getting fired.

I think any savvy investor happy at $13, is covering at $14 too... it's a smart move, most don't care who buys Transat.
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by TFTMB heavy » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:39 am

I invite you guys to go read up on how this deal came together for AC vs Group Mach, start on page 6 of the following document https://www.transat.com/getmedia/609a47 ... L.pdf.aspx

Also, go read up on the Group Mach proposal for the share purchase scheme. It's not very long, you should read the whole document.
http://www.groupemach.com/DATA/TEXTEDOC ... g-PDF-.PDF

Happy reading.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:33 pm

HavaJava wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:51 pm
altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:35 pm
AC can add pilots at will. Bottom of the barrel? Have you read recent new hire bios from flag carriers and heavy jets around the world and other Canadian 705 jet airlines?
I didn't mean bottom of the barrel in a derogatory way. I know there are some high time new hires, but there are A LOT of people with 2-3 years experience who had to do PICUS to get their ATPLs. Perhaps AC is swimming in quality applications...perhaps it's getting tougher for them. Still, 600 ready to go, experienced pilots has got to be tempting.

And I am with you...I'd far rather hire OTS to the bottom of the list to fill the shortage...but Calin doesn't give a shit about that.
That's actually not really true at all. Looking back a year on the new hire bios most of the pilots hired were all 705 Captains and have more than "PICUS" experince as you say. Yes there are a few here and there, the GGN cadets for example and a few 2500 hour pilots that came from Jazz on the new flow thing. But overall, the experience in the new hire classes is 705 CA, some 704 CA and a handfull of 705 FOs. Lots coming from WJ, SW, Qatar, EH, Cathay, Ethiad etc.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:35 pm

indieadventurer wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:29 pm
altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:35 pm
It's the smart move for any Transat investor who wants to get paid.
This deal seems off. Mach said they want to secure "at least" 6.9 million shares. If the AC deal is voted down, won't the share price drop back to pre-merger discussion prices? Mach is then holding "at least" 6.9 million shares they paid $14 per share for and which are now trading at $6. What am I missing here?
Looking into the Mach offer, I really don't understand what their biz plan actually is. All I see is they want to block the deal and come up with their own plan for "near term growth." Ok, well... tell us. What't the plan? Other than "it's good for Quebec jobs." Whatever that means...
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Just another canuck
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Just another canuck » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:13 pm

Warden wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:35 pm
indieadventurer wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:29 pm
altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:35 pm
It's the smart move for any Transat investor who wants to get paid.
This deal seems off. Mach said they want to secure "at least" 6.9 million shares. If the AC deal is voted down, won't the share price drop back to pre-merger discussion prices? Mach is then holding "at least" 6.9 million shares they paid $14 per share for and which are now trading at $6. What am I missing here?
Looking into the Mach offer, I really don't understand what their biz plan actually is. All I see is they want to block the deal and come up with their own plan for "near term growth." Ok, well... tell us. What't the plan? Other than "it's good for Quebec jobs." Whatever that means...
They're pissed about the share price cause they bought high. More importantly, they want the hotel business and land. They either don't have a plan or if they do, they have no intention of telling anyone cause it's a dubious one.
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tintin42
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by tintin42 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:15 pm

altiplano wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:14 pm
That's not what I said. If you give your proxy to Mach and it's "No" you got $14 guaranteed.

If you don't give it and it's"No" you're riding the chances.

Either way if it's "Yes", you're probably $13.

So to me, particularly if I'm happy at $13, why wouldn't I take Mach's offer. You will get $13 or $14. It's a great way to hedge the outcome here, and on a positive side.

If you don't and it's a "No" that's a chance you take...

Minority stake? That's what Mach has to propose with this strategy. If they move to acquire 20% it enacts a shareholder rights provision, aka poison pill, that gives the BOD the right to prevent Mach from making proposals directly to individual shareholders.

19.5% is a clear strategy, it's not some half baked number out of the blue.

I think it's one of the more interesting business stories in this country in a while.

Maybe you guys don't understand the strategy.

There's a reason Transat execs are pissed. If this flops they aren't getting their pay day and they're getting fired.

I think any savvy investor happy at $13, is covering at $14 too... it's a smart move, most don't care who buys Transat.
Let’s say Mach get 40% of the shareholders interested. They get to vote as if they owned 40% of the share, but after the deal with AC doesn’t pass, they only buy 19.9% of the share at 14$ the other 20.1% are still at the shareholders and if they want to sell it’s going to be at market price witch at that point would probably be much lower than 13$.

So let’s say someone as 1000 share, he either vote yes and get 13 000$ or go with Mach to vote no and get half the share at 14$ (assuming 40% of the share holder take the deal) and half when he sell at market price with would be closer to market value in April : 500 at 14$ plus 500 at 6$ = 10 000$.

It’s definitely not a win-win for invertors.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:41 pm

No.

That's not the deal on offer from Mach.

You are talking about this multi billion dollar business like they are some Nigerian chain letter hacks running a scam to trick people.

Besides, they don't need 40% to get the No vote. With Letko against at about 19%, plus some other large stakeholders uncommitted to the AC deal, Mach might see this deal blocked with well under 19.5% of proxies.
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Sharklasers
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Sharklasers » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:17 pm

All the Transat pilots in this thread that have talked about how much they would have preferred to stay an independent airline and how much better Transat is to work for then mainline should pledge their shares to Mach.
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TSAM
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by TSAM » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:02 am

Sharklasers wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:17 pm
All the Transat pilots in this thread that have talked about how much they would have preferred to stay an independent airline and how much better Transat is to work for then mainline should pledge their shares to Mach.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? If you're so bent, why don't you and/or the rest of the AC negative Nancy's purchase 19.5% and pledge it to Mach. Win-win for you right? Crying about it because you're a new hire (or not) will do nothing; this merger is happening and it's best to get on board and accept it (see a therapist if req). All of this is out of our control as pilots, and you should be more worried about your contract opener.
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FL320
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:09 am

It does not look good for Mach.
Air Canada and Transat lawyers are doing a great job, we will probably know the outcome later today..
https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2019/08/09/ ... -transat-1
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by TSAM » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:12 am

Additionally, it also says a lot you'd rather keep status quo and keep a poor contract compared to the industry outside of Canada, rather than accept what very well could be a huge benefit to AC by acquiring TS (and thus better for the pilots), and the ability to make a better contract for you and the rest of the pilots at AC and in Canada (setting precedent). But we all know this is about you-you-you, F everyone else right?
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tintin42
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by tintin42 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:13 am

altiplano wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:41 pm
No.

That's not the deal on offer from Mach.

You are talking about this multi billion dollar business like they are some Nigerian chain letter hacks running a scam to trick people.

Besides, they don't need 40% to get the No vote. With Letko against at about 19%, plus some other large stakeholders uncommitted to the AC deal, Mach might see this deal blocked with well under 19.5% of proxies.
Have you read and understood the full proposal from mach or you just assume it's a fair deal since it's a big investor? That's what the offer is so that's why I don't understand why any shareholder wood take the deal.
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Sharklasers » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:15 am

TSAM wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:57 am
There's a reason we came and stay at TS, and most of us rather not see this merger happen either.
No TSAM, I am trying to help you guys out. As you stated yourself the transat pilots dont even want to come to Air Canada. This could really work out for all of us, please help spread the word in the Transat crew rooms.
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tintin42
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by tintin42 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:24 am

Sharklasers wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:17 pm
All the Transat pilots in this thread that have talked about how much they would have preferred to stay an independent airline and how much better Transat is to work for then mainline should pledge their shares to Mach.
Chiara, Mach's president, said in a interview that he's already considering outsourcing the airline part of the operation within a few years. That's not good for anyone at AT.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:49 am

tintin42 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:13 am
altiplano wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:41 pm
No.

That's not the deal on offer from Mach.

You are talking about this multi billion dollar business like they are some Nigerian chain letter hacks running a scam to trick people.

Besides, they don't need 40% to get the No vote. With Letko against at about 19%, plus some other large stakeholders uncommitted to the AC deal, Mach might see this deal blocked with well under 19.5% of proxies.
Have you read and understood the full proposal from mach or you just assume it's a fair deal since it's a big investor? That's what the offer is so that's why I don't understand why any shareholder wood take the deal.
I completely understand it.

It's absolutely a good deal for an investor that's happy to sell at $13 and wants to maximize their investment.

Also, if the subscription conditions aren't met by the depositing deadline all proxies are revoked. You can also revoke your proxy after the deadline if you change your mind. The offer is pretty up front and easy to understand and while Transat execs might not like it - no golden pay day and they are going to get fired - investors looking to maximize their gains should like it and cheer a "No" vote.

You are going to get $14 if it's a No, and you are no worse off of its a "Yes".

The idea that they could just take and vote your proxy, get the "No", and then not pay you the promised consideration of $14 within 3 business days for the underlying share is ridiculous. The offer is clear, and I did read it.

Quote in the Mach offer where the deception is. It isn't there. This is a straight forward offer.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:53 am

TSAM wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:12 am
Additionally, it also says a lot you'd rather keep status quo and keep a poor contract compared to the industry outside of Canada, rather than accept what very well could be a huge benefit to AC by acquiring TS (and thus better for the pilots), and the ability to make a better contract for you and the rest of the pilots at AC and in Canada (setting precedent). But we all know this is about you-you-you, F everyone else right?
1. No, not F- anyone else. How does a "No" F- you?
2. I thought you didn't want to join AC, you're happy at TS I thought?
3. Poor contract? Better than yours! And taking you on won't help it.
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Last edited by altiplano on Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:55 am

Sharklasers wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:15 am
As you stated yourself the transat pilots dont even want to come to Air Canada. This could really work out for all of us, please help spread the word in the Transat crew rooms.
Right? Hypocrites.
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indieadventurer
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by indieadventurer » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:11 am

Only 19.5% of overall shareholders get the $14 if the outcome of the vote on the 23rd is a no. Everyone else not part of that 19.5%, whether they tried to be or not, is left with whatever the market deems a TRZ share to be worth. It won’t be anywhere near $13-14.
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Victory » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:53 am
I thought you didn't want to join AC, you're happy at TS I thought?
Pretty sure that was just lip service to try to improve bargaining power and maintain the years long narrative that Transat is the better job.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:28 am

indieadventurer wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:11 am
Only 19.5% of overall shareholders get the $14 if the outcome of the vote on the 23rd is a no. Everyone else not part of that 19.5%, whether they tried to be or not, is left with whatever the market deems a TRZ share to be worth. It won’t be anywhere near $13-14.
So clearly with Mach is the winning place to be no matter the vote result. That's the smart move.
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