DOH merge.

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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

If the AT pilots are becoming the replacement for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on, they can go BOTL.
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FL320
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm
for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on
Do you realize that you talk like a 12 years old kid?
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:56 pm
Zing.

This would be my first Union merger. As I said bump and flush and I'll consider it. I'd want it laid out clearly immediate flush and new vote... no interim period.

I'm not voting for anything that results in a recently AT guy just became AC guy to lead a new Air Canada pilot group.

At least not at first... once we're united and on the same page I'll support whoever will do the job best.
You have nothing to worry about. Warden is correct. We choose representation. Then we elect leaders. The only exception would be the seniority integration file. IOW we would end up with AC pilot union leaders under ALPA rather than the same leaders under ACPA.

I have heard conflicting opinions as to why the ALPA deal went cold. Either way it happened, unless someone resurrects it, it is done. Too bad but typical ACPA.
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FL-280
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL-280 »

[/quote]

You have nothing to worry about. Warden is correct. We choose representation. Then we elect leaders. The only exception would be the seniority integration file. IOW we would end up with AC pilot union leaders under ALPA rather than the same leaders under ACPA.

I have heard conflicting opinions as to why the ALPA deal went cold. Either way it happened, unless someone resurrects it, it is done. Too bad but typical ACPA.
[/quote]

Probably went cold because the merger or acquisition language in the ACPA contract is very favorable to AC pilots. ALPA would be DOH no questions asked.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

FL-280 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:16 pm


Probably went cold because the merger or acquisition language in the ACPA contract is very favorable to AC pilots. ALPA would be DOH no questions asked.

That's actually completely false and one of the perpetual lies ACPA keeps spewing to the membership.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

FL320 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:46 pm
Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm
for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on
Do you realize that you talk like a 12 years old kid?
Maybe so. Doesn't change the fact I left a pretty good job, with good seniority and basically layoff protection to come to AC based on what I was told by management in the interview. Hearing directly from the horses mouth that they were hiring 1000 pilots by the end of 2020 is what put me over the edge to come. If things were stagnant I would still be at Jazz enjoying my left seat, 100k, and 12 days a month of work. Instead I'm making $56k with the potential to sit at the bottom of the list a lot longer than I anticipate. Sure, nothing in life is guaranteed but if this goes through and they dial back new hire classes and things stagnate, who knows if I'll stick around longer than a few years to test the movement.
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GATRKGA
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by GATRKGA »

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:33 pm
FL320 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:46 pm
Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm
for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on
Do you realize that you talk like a 12 years old kid?
Maybe so. Doesn't change the fact I left a pretty good job, with good seniority and basically layoff protection to come to AC based on what I was told by management in the interview. Hearing directly from the horses mouth that they were hiring 1000 pilots by the end of 2020 is what put me over the edge to come. If things were stagnant I would still be at Jazz enjoying my left seat, 100k, and 12 days a month of work. Instead I'm making $56k with the potential to sit at the bottom of the list a lot longer than I anticipate. Sure, nothing in life is guaranteed but if this goes through and they dial back new hire classes and things stagnate, who knows if I'll stick around longer than a few years to test the movement.

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm
If the AT pilots are becoming the replacement for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on, they can go BOTL.
And why does your horrible decision have to be paid for by 600 or so pilots? That's like saying you lost half of your retirement fund, so your neighbor's house better burn down so you can sleep at night. Is this the caliber of individual AC is attracting these days? Maybe it's for the better those new hire courses are postponed.
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Last edited by GATRKGA on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:28 pm
FL-280 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:16 pm


Probably went cold because the merger or acquisition language in the ACPA contract is very favorable to AC pilots. ALPA would be DOH no questions asked.

That's actually completely false and one of the perpetual lies ACPA keeps spewing to the membership.
That's correct.

Read the ALPA merger guidance. It is multi factored.

DOH/longevity is not limiting.
Career expectation, and other relevance factors are weighted.
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GATRKGA
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by GATRKGA »

altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:53 pm
Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:28 pm
FL-280 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:16 pm


Probably went cold because the merger or acquisition language in the ACPA contract is very favorable to AC pilots. ALPA would be DOH no questions asked.

That's actually completely false and one of the perpetual lies ACPA keeps spewing to the membership.
That's correct.

Read the ALPA merger guidance. It is multi factored.

DOH/longevity is not limiting.
Career expectation, and other relevance factors are weighted.
Alti, where did you see that new hire courses are being post poned?
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

I heard it from someone in the building on Logistics.

Unofficial. But I have no reason to not believe it.

If they aren't postponed, maybe they're just not calling anyone else, or maybe it's bullshit.

But with super bid next week and the acquisition vote imminent... maybe they figure they need to tap the break.
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GATRKGA
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by GATRKGA »

altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:12 pm
I heard it from someone in the building on Logistics.

Unofficial. But I have no reason to not believe it.

If they aren't postponed, maybe they're just not calling anyone else, or maybe it's bullshit.

But with super bid next week and the acquisition vote imminent... maybe they figure they need to tap the break.
So with it being purely speculation, what is it that makes you think a bid with results 6 months away would impact new hires? It's not like Transat is filling those positions. They're coming with planes. AC still would need to hire. Just curious.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

GATRKGA wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:37 pm
Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:33 pm
FL320 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:46 pm


Do you realize that you talk like a 12 years old kid?
Maybe so. Doesn't change the fact I left a pretty good job, with good seniority and basically layoff protection to come to AC based on what I was told by management in the interview. Hearing directly from the horses mouth that they were hiring 1000 pilots by the end of 2020 is what put me over the edge to come. If things were stagnant I would still be at Jazz enjoying my left seat, 100k, and 12 days a month of work. Instead I'm making $56k with the potential to sit at the bottom of the list a lot longer than I anticipate. Sure, nothing in life is guaranteed but if this goes through and they dial back new hire classes and things stagnate, who knows if I'll stick around longer than a few years to test the movement.

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm
If the AT pilots are becoming the replacement for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on, they can go BOTL.
And why does your horrible decision have to be paid for by 600 or so pilots? That's like saying you lost half of your retirement fund, so your neighbor's house better burn down so you can sleep at night. Is this the caliber of individual AC is attracting these days? Maybe it's for the better those new hire courses are postponed.
No that's not the same as hoping someone's house will burn down.

I guess I am what they are attracting. My resume, interview and references seemed to meet their requirements just fine.

I can't be mad that my lifestyle and progression is going to change? I am not naive enough to think they'll actually end up at the bottom of the list. But am am allowed to be annoyed by it.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

GATRKGA wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:18 pm
altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:12 pm
I heard it from someone in the building on Logistics.

Unofficial. But I have no reason to not believe it.

If they aren't postponed, maybe they're just not calling anyone else, or maybe it's bullshit.

But with super bid next week and the acquisition vote imminent... maybe they figure they need to tap the break.
So with it being purely speculation, what is it that makes you think a bid with results 6 months away would impact new hires? It's not like Transat is filling those positions. They're coming with planes. AC still would need to hire. Just curious.
Don't shoot the messenger. Maybe it's wrong... you know how rumours are.

6 months away? Used to be a year. Sometimes they are just hoping for a quick flip for something a month away on recent bids...

I read someone speculate AC would just shift the hiring to Transat... maybe that's it...

Who fucking knows.
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GATRKGA
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by GATRKGA »

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:23 pm
GATRKGA wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:37 pm
Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:33 pm


Maybe so. Doesn't change the fact I left a pretty good job, with good seniority and basically layoff protection to come to AC based on what I was told by management in the interview. Hearing directly from the horses mouth that they were hiring 1000 pilots by the end of 2020 is what put me over the edge to come. If things were stagnant I would still be at Jazz enjoying my left seat, 100k, and 12 days a month of work. Instead I'm making $56k with the potential to sit at the bottom of the list a lot longer than I anticipate. Sure, nothing in life is guaranteed but if this goes through and they dial back new hire classes and things stagnate, who knows if I'll stick around longer than a few years to test the movement.

Warden wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm
If the AT pilots are becoming the replacement for the future hiring numbers that so many people based career decisions on, they can go BOTL.
And why does your horrible decision have to be paid for by 600 or so pilots? That's like saying you lost half of your retirement fund, so your neighbor's house better burn down so you can sleep at night. Is this the caliber of individual AC is attracting these days? Maybe it's for the better those new hire courses are postponed.
No that's not the same as hoping someone's house will burn down.

I guess I am what they are attracting. My resume, interview and references seemed to meet their requirements just fine.

I can't be mad that my lifestyle and progression is going to change? I am not naive enough to think they'll actually end up at the bottom of the list. But am am allowed to be annoyed by it.
:mrgreen:
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GATRKGA
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by GATRKGA »

altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:29 pm
GATRKGA wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:18 pm
altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:12 pm
I heard it from someone in the building on Logistics.

Unofficial. But I have no reason to not believe it.

If they aren't postponed, maybe they're just not calling anyone else, or maybe it's bullshit.

But with super bid next week and the acquisition vote imminent... maybe they figure they need to tap the break.
So with it being purely speculation, what is it that makes you think a bid with results 6 months away would impact new hires? It's not like Transat is filling those positions. They're coming with planes. AC still would need to hire. Just curious.
Don't shoot the messenger. Maybe it's wrong... you know how rumours are.

6 months away? Used to be a year. Sometimes they are just hoping for a quick flip for something a month away on recent bids...

I read someone speculate AC would just shift the hiring to Transat... maybe that's it...

Who fucking knows.
haahahah, it will be okay alti.
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iflyroads
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by iflyroads »

altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:12 pm
I heard it from someone in the building on Logistics.

Unofficial. But I have no reason to not believe it.

If they aren't postponed, maybe they're just not calling anyone else, or maybe it's bullshit.

But with super bid next week and the acquisition vote imminent... maybe they figure they need to tap the break.

Ac still running fall ground schools....for now. We put out calls last week for the sept Gs.
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altiplano
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by altiplano »

Well, I don't know what I'm talking about I guess... bad info... or the winds changed after lunch... same as always.

Are you doing the calls for the next courses or is that second hand info too?
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FL320
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

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Daniel Cooper
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Daniel Cooper »

If only AC is allowed to buy Transat can they take back the $18 offer? :lol:
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FL320
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:31 am
If only AC is allowed to buy Transat can they take back the $18 offer? :lol:
AC lawyers were also with Transat at the court knowing since friday that Mach’s plan wouldn’t be approved by the AMF. I guess AC offered 18$ for more reasons than just the Mach thing.

By the end of the month we should also get some news from TC (https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-cana ... anada.html)
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FL320
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by FL320 »

Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
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Hangry
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Hangry »

FL320 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am
Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Jettime3 »

Hangry wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 pm
FL320 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am
Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
Yup. Let them shuffle it around and make it into an express version of what we do . TS you are not an improvement . You are not any more than a charter airline who has overseas seasonal flying. What’s so unique? Your fleet of leased aircraft? Your pilots? Or your routes ? AC can lease aircraft , AC is moving pilots and that leaves your routes . That’s all we want . And if you think you are taking our DOH seniority we will see about that . You will have a job , but you will not be Air Transat . You will be a division of AC. No ALPA . You need to educate yourselves on ACPA and what your integration will consist of.
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Warden
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Warden »

Jettime3 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:24 pm
Hangry wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 pm
FL320 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am
Westjet/Onex and Air France interested in Transat, so we know why AC went from 13$ to 18$...
Let them have it.
Yup. Let them shuffle it around and make it into an express version of what we do . TS you are not an improvement . You are not any more than a charter airline who has overseas seasonal flying. What’s so unique? Your fleet of leased aircraft? Your pilots? Or your routes ? AC can lease aircraft , AC is moving pilots and that leaves your routes . That’s all we want . And if you think you are taking our DOH seniority we will see about that . You will have a job , but you will not be Air Transat . You will be a division of AC. No ALPA . You need to educate yourselves on ACPA and what your integration will consist of.
Sounds like you drink the ACPA koolaide well. And are very uneducated in regards to mergers and acquisitions.

If you think our contract is worth anything, think again. The government will just walk in and arbitrate it if we don't get along and come to an agreement. A negotiated contract where both sides walk away a bit unhappy is always better than an arbitrated one.
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Fanblade
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Re: DOH merge.

Post by Fanblade »

altiplano wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:29 pm

I read someone speculate AC would just shift the hiring to Transat... maybe that's it...

That would be me, but I didn’t mean it as speculation. It was what happened during the last merger with Canadian Airlines. Some of the training was offloaded to the training department that was not as busy. In that case Canadian. In the end everyone ends up on the same list anyway, so even if that happens here, it doesn’t impact the end result. It only impacted where new hires started.
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