Air Canada Outbid

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Diadem
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Diadem »

tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:21 pm and how many successful companies have you run ?
What? What the hell does that have to do with understanding how publicly-traded shares work? Only CEOs know how investment works?
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by FL320 »

Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business.
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
Fortunately your management see a potential in Transat. They will most probably share the same business model in the near future, my dear future colleague 🥳
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lownslow
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by lownslow »

The period of exclusivity must be over by now. Did anyone buy anyone yet?
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Diadem
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Diadem »

FL320 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:33 pm
Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business.
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
Fortunately your management see a potential in Transat. They will most probably share the same business model in the near future, my dear future colleague 🥳
I don't work for either, and I have no stakes in this specific transaction. I just thought that statement by tsgas was ridiculous, and his knowledge of economics lacking.
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tsgas
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:45 pm
FL320 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:33 pm
Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
Fortunately your management see a potential in Transat. They will most probably share the same business model in the near future, my dear future colleague 🥳
I don't work for either, and I have no stakes in this specific transaction. I just thought that statement by tsgas was ridiculous, and his knowledge of economics lacking.
Diadem is a blowhard that thinks he is some kind of a financial expert because he watches Fast Money. The lad doesn't understand that the company needs a combination of debt and equity , in order to run the business. Stock options and RSU's depend on the strike price of shares. When a company's shares become undervalued, relative to the companies book value, than you have attempts at takeovers.
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Last edited by tsgas on Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

altiplano wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am
altiplano wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:26 am

Of course it was the greed that prevailed and lost them all that money... $37 and they are still holding them all the way down to $4 or $5... now $12 or $13 and they haven't counted their luck and jumped? Maybe they'll get another couple bucks in this deal... but not much more... then again it could fall through and the stock is back at $5.

They are greedy to not stomach the loss and move on. It's a common problem with investors... won't sell at a loss and ride it into the ground... Since 2007? Since 2009 we have had the biggest bull market in history, they could have made back their losses... Look at all that opportunity lost.

If they think they'll get $37 back, they're dreaming... take the best offer you can get and move on. What does an investor care about what happens after they are paid?
Not everyone is a shark like you. Many people have investments in an RRSP account and follow the classic Warren Buffet approach of buy and hold. Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business. The use of the word "greed" is offensive for people that are wiling to take risk and support a company.

President Maduro of Venezuela , shares your views on capitalism and "greedy shareholders".
Maduro? Hardly.

Support a company? Double hardly... do you believe these people you mention just let their money evaporate over the past 12 years to support a non-dividend paying money losing company? LOL...

Nothing wrong with being greedy, but if you're riding it out "believing the management lies" as you put it and you get bit it's all on you. The market owes you nothing... If you are going to ride it out you better have your own research and reasons.

LOL on Warned Buffet comparison. Are you serious? "I rode Blockbuster into the ground because it's what Warren Buffet would do... where did I go wrong"
you are being obnoxious. Read up on Warren Buffet and you will discover he believes in "buy and hold". I never said that you had to buy, sell or hold anything, let alone Blockbuster. You sound like a person that had some anger issues.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by altiplano »

tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:19 pm
altiplano wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am

Not everyone is a shark like you. Many people have investments in an RRSP account and follow the classic Warren Buffet approach of buy and hold. Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business. The use of the word "greed" is offensive for people that are wiling to take risk and support a company.

President Maduro of Venezuela , shares your views on capitalism and "greedy shareholders".
Maduro? Hardly.

Support a company? Double hardly... do you believe these people you mention just let their money evaporate over the past 12 years to support a non-dividend paying money losing company? LOL...

Nothing wrong with being greedy, but if you're riding it out "believing the management lies" as you put it and you get bit it's all on you. The market owes you nothing... If you are going to ride it out you better have your own research and reasons.

LOL on Warned Buffet comparison. Are you serious? "I rode Blockbuster into the ground because it's what Warren Buffet would do... where did I go wrong"
you are being obnoxious. Read up on Warren Buffet and you will discover he believes in "buy and hold". I never said that you had to buy, sell or hold anything, let alone Blockbuster. You sound like a person that had some anger issues.
I'm being obnoxious? Anger issues? More Warren Buffet?

You sure have a substantial argument there!

I am pointing out facts. People are in the market to make money. Some (many) people have a difficult time selling at a loss even if they watch their investment crater.
People holding since '07 @ $37 are not going to get that back in this deal. Transat is not worth $37. Buy and hold? It's not an absolute, particularly with a vacation charter airline stock. So why do you keep bringing it up? Buffet doesn't keep everything he buys long term, he sells and admits his mistakes.
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by DanWEC »

I strongly doubt more than a tiny handful of people bought at $37 and it would have been a plain old bad buy. That was their all time high, was overvalued, and it held only for a few days before starting a long correction. TRZ has spent almost 80% of it's life below $15. Nobody in the market is entitled to anything.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by FL320 »

lownslow wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:05 pm The period of exclusivity must be over by now. Did anyone buy anyone yet?
It’s not over, 6 days remaining.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by FL320 »

altiplano wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:43 am
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:19 pm
altiplano wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm

Maduro? Hardly.

Support a company? Double hardly... do you believe these people you mention just let their money evaporate over the past 12 years to support a non-dividend paying money losing company? LOL...

Nothing wrong with being greedy, but if you're riding it out "believing the management lies" as you put it and you get bit it's all on you. The market owes you nothing... If you are going to ride it out you better have your own research and reasons.

LOL on Warned Buffet comparison. Are you serious? "I rode Blockbuster into the ground because it's what Warren Buffet would do... where did I go wrong"
you are being obnoxious. Read up on Warren Buffet and you will discover he believes in "buy and hold". I never said that you had to buy, sell or hold anything, let alone Blockbuster. You sound like a person that had some anger issues.
I'm being obnoxious? Anger issues? More Warren Buffet?

You sure have a substantial argument there!

I am pointing out facts. People are in the market to make money. Some (many) people have a difficult time selling at a loss even if they watch their investment crater.
People holding since '07 @ $37 are not going to get that back in this deal. Transat is not worth $37. Buy and hold? It's not an absolute, particularly with a vacation charter airline stock. So why do you keep bringing it up? Buffet doesn't keep everything he buys long term, he sells and admits his mistakes.
Buffet would also suggest you to do not waste your precious time/money all days long on avcanada. While you’re getting paid to do nothing thanks to the Max issues, a wise man would increase its income by selling its competencies; and as far I know avcanada don’t pay for posting.
(You can thank me later when we meet in our new common crew room 🙂)
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Last edited by FL320 on Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
tsgas
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

DanWEC wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:59 am I strongly doubt more than a tiny handful of people bought at $37 and it would have been a plain old bad buy. That was their all time high, was overvalued, and it held only for a few days before starting a long correction. TRZ has spent almost 80% of it's life below $15. Nobody in the market is entitled to anything.
The point that I was making , and flew over your head , it that people that invest in stocks should not be called "greedy" simply because they are willing to take a risk. Using works like risk taker would be more appropriate. Without investors in Canada , we run the risk , of being owned and controlled by foreign powers.
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by DanWEC »

Hardly over my head. But since you brought that up, It's only a point if it makes sense.
Accordingly, what you stated was therefore more of a weak analogy at best and barely representative of the viewpoint you clarified after.

Not responding to the topic, just your accusation. We agree on the market! Cheers.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by altiplano »

Perhaps we have different ideas of greed.

I want to get as much from my investments as possible within my personal level of risk tolerance. I am absolutely greedy in the markets... that's why we're all there... some do it better than others and have different tolerances.

I check and limit that greed with my research and personal comfort limits, I close out positions and take gains even when I feel they may have more room to run and I diversify them. The amount I've cashed out on AC over the last number of years... if I still held it today... wow... should have been greedier, but I also slept better not having such a large position against the risk of an airline/economy/terrorist disaster...

Anyway. Don't get hung up on the word 'greed'. Call it what you like, but people aren't putting money in the markets to do any favours for anyone but themselves.
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WhatThe?
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by WhatThe? »

I hope AC doesn't buy AT, what a pain in the ass for us AC pilots.

But Calin is brilliant, so he must see something there?
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Just another canuck
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

Just another canuck wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:05 pm
WhatThe? wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:16 am I hope AC doesn't buy AT, what a pain in the ass for us AC pilots.

But Calin is brilliant, so he must see something there?
600 plus highly experienced pilots in an industry where they are diminishing. A fleet of aircraft including 15 brand new 321's with the option for (Ibelieve) 15 more. Market share. Loyal passenger base. Slots. Network. Land assets. And the defensive move against Onex/WJ. Yeah, I'd say there's something there.
Yet they do not own one single airplane, 100 % are leased.
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by rookiepilot »

tsgas wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:02 am
. Without investors in Canada , we run the risk , of being owned and controlled by foreign powers.
Not likely.

Foreign investors are fed up with this country.
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tsgas
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:27 pm
tsgas wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:02 am
. Without investors in Canada , we run the risk , of being owned and controlled by foreign powers.
Not likely.

Foreign investors are fed up with this country.
Yeah so why are the biggest companies like Walmart,Tim Hortons, VanHotte , Sico paints, Canada Bread, MacDonalds making so much money in Canada. :lol:
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Looks like Mache Group has removed it's financing clause from it's offer. I don't know if they got the money from the Quebec government or elsewhere.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Fanblade »

Double
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Last edited by Fanblade on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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