Air Canada Outbid

Discuss topics related to Air Transat.

Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog

Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Victory »

There's no way Rovinescu doesn't want this bad. It helps fix the MAX issue which history may remember as the biggest blunder of his career. It solves the pilot shortage. It replaces the 767's. Not to mention the obvious increase in vacation travel business. It's such a sweetheart deal that it makes me wonder if the Onex deal wasn't a reaction to Air Canada buying Transat not the other way around. WestJet probably caught wind and realized they need a big cash injection to compete.
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by fish4life »

Victory wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:06 am There's no way Rovinescu doesn't want this bad. It helps fix the MAX issue which history may remember as the biggest blunder of his career. It solves the pilot shortage. It replaces the 767's. Not to mention the obvious increase in vacation travel business. It's such a sweetheart deal that it makes me wonder if the Onex deal wasn't a reaction to Air Canada buying Transat not the other way around. WestJet probably caught wind and realized they need a big cash injection to compete.
I don’t think WestJet would have come to Onex and gotten a premium if they were looking for cash, that would have been Onex coming to them. One interesting thing that I don’t think anyone will know is whether or not Onex was in talks with transat as well
---------- ADS -----------
 
Fanblade
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1119
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Fanblade »

fish4life wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:30 am One interesting thing that I don’t think anyone will know is whether or not Onex was in talks with transat as well
We will never know for certain. However the timelines overlap between Onex talking to WJ, and WJ making an offer to Transat. In all likelihood Onex was attempting to stay under the radar and WJ was used as a proxy to put feelers out to Transat. If Onex could get WJ to nab Transat before showing their face, there would be no time for AC to react.

As it turned out the WJ offer to Transat instead prompted the Transat BOD to go public and announce it had an unsolicited decent offer and sought higher bidders. This forced Onex/WJ to announce what had been going on behind closed doors. AC jumped immediately.

I don’t think this is over by a long shot. I don’t think Onex has finished. AC right now is probably just watching and running down the clock on what may now be a three way race.
---------- ADS -----------
 
tsgas
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

Fanblade wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:35 am
fish4life wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:30 am One interesting thing that I don’t think anyone will know is whether or not Onex was in talks with transat as well
We will never know for certain. However the timelines overlap between Onex talking to WJ, and WJ making an offer to Transat. In all likelihood Onex was attempting to stay under the radar and WJ was used as a proxy to put feelers out to Transat. If Onex could get WJ to nab Transat before showing their face, there would be no time for AC to react.

As it turned out the WJ offer to Transat instead prompted the Transat BOD to go public and announce it had an unsolicited decent offer and sought higher bidders. This forced Onex/WJ to announce what had been going on behind closed doors. AC jumped immediately.

I don’t think this is over by a long shot. I don’t think Onex has finished. AC right now is probably just watching and running down the clock on what may now be a three way race.
Pure speculation :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
ToolShed
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:58 am
Location: LINNG

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by ToolShed »

Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
Jettime3
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:07 am

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Jettime3 »

Outbid by a company that has to get a loan from Quebec to pay ? That's smart , not . They are blowing smoke to cause Air Canada to be alarmed or increase the offer . They have not even sat down with Air Transat and already they are shooting off to the press. Who wants a real estate firm that needs a loan to invest in a company that is losing money daily ? VS an airline that will absorb TS debt and keep pilots flying and stable ? If TS chooses to go with the Swampland in Florida offer then all pilots risk having no job because the airline becomes another piece of property for them to use as collateral and split into small subsidiaries .
---------- ADS -----------
 
Puffpuffpass
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:01 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Puffpuffpass »

^ Every pilot at AC, thats who.
---------- ADS -----------
 
PT6onH20
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:13 am

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by PT6onH20 »

Here's hoping shareholder greed prevails.

TS pilots keep their company and schedules.
TS management and office staff keep their jobs.
AC pilots maintain their career progression.
Shareholders get the one thing that matters to them.
Legault keeps his legacy.
Onex is kept out.
---------- ADS -----------
 
tsgas
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

PT6onH20 wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:28 pm Here's hoping shareholder greed prevails.

TS pilots keep their company and schedules.
TS management and office staff keep their jobs.
AC pilots maintain their career progression.
Shareholders get the one thing that matters to them.
Legault keeps his legacy.
Onex is kept out.
Try telling the shareholders , who purchased their shares in 2007 at $37.00 each , and have believed the management's lies for the past 12 years that a turn around was just around the corner. I'm sure that they would laugh at your socialist statement "shareholder greed prevails".
---------- ADS -----------
 
garfield
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:35 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by garfield »

A shareholder I will take the highest offer. Doesn't matter who is making the offer!
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4306
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by altiplano »

tsgas wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:14 pm
PT6onH20 wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:28 pm Here's hoping shareholder greed prevails.

TS pilots keep their company and schedules.
TS management and office staff keep their jobs.
AC pilots maintain their career progression.
Shareholders get the one thing that matters to them.
Legault keeps his legacy.
Onex is kept out.
Try telling the shareholders , who purchased their shares in 2007 at $37.00 each , and have believed the management's lies for the past 12 years that a turn around was just around the corner. I'm sure that they would laugh at your socialist statement "shareholder greed prevails".
Of course it was the greed that prevailed and lost them all that money... $37 and they are still holding them all the way down to $4 or $5... now $12 or $13 and they haven't counted their luck and jumped? Maybe they'll get another couple bucks in this deal... but not much more... then again it could fall through and the stock is back at $5.

They are greedy to not stomach the loss and move on. It's a common problem with investors... won't sell at a loss and ride it into the ground... Since 2007? Since 2009 we have had the biggest bull market in history, they could have made back their losses... Look at all that opportunity lost.

If they think they'll get $37 back, they're dreaming... take the best offer you can get and move on. What does an investor care about what happens after they are paid?
---------- ADS -----------
 
tsgas
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

altiplano wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:26 am
tsgas wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:14 pm
PT6onH20 wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:28 pm Here's hoping shareholder greed prevails.

TS pilots keep their company and schedules.
TS management and office staff keep their jobs.
AC pilots maintain their career progression.
Shareholders get the one thing that matters to them.
Legault keeps his legacy.
Onex is kept out.
Try telling the shareholders , who purchased their shares in 2007 at $37.00 each , and have believed the management's lies for the past 12 years that a turn around was just around the corner. I'm sure that they would laugh at your socialist statement "shareholder greed prevails".
Of course it was the greed that prevailed and lost them all that money... $37 and they are still holding them all the way down to $4 or $5... now $12 or $13 and they haven't counted their luck and jumped? Maybe they'll get another couple bucks in this deal... but not much more... then again it could fall through and the stock is back at $5.

They are greedy to not stomach the loss and move on. It's a common problem with investors... won't sell at a loss and ride it into the ground... Since 2007? Since 2009 we have had the biggest bull market in history, they could have made back their losses... Look at all that opportunity lost.

If they think they'll get $37 back, they're dreaming... take the best offer you can get and move on. What does an investor care about what happens after they are paid?
Not everyone is a shark like you. Many people have investments in an RRSP account and follow the classic Warren Buffet approach of buy and hold. Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business. The use of the word "greed" is offensive for people that are wiling to take risk and support a company.

President Maduro of Venezuela , shares your views on capitalism and "greedy shareholders".
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Diadem »

tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business.
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
---------- ADS -----------
 
tsgas
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business.
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
and how many successful companies have you run ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4306
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by altiplano »

tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am
altiplano wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:26 am
tsgas wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:14 pm

Try telling the shareholders , who purchased their shares in 2007 at $37.00 each , and have believed the management's lies for the past 12 years that a turn around was just around the corner. I'm sure that they would laugh at your socialist statement "shareholder greed prevails".
Of course it was the greed that prevailed and lost them all that money... $37 and they are still holding them all the way down to $4 or $5... now $12 or $13 and they haven't counted their luck and jumped? Maybe they'll get another couple bucks in this deal... but not much more... then again it could fall through and the stock is back at $5.

They are greedy to not stomach the loss and move on. It's a common problem with investors... won't sell at a loss and ride it into the ground... Since 2007? Since 2009 we have had the biggest bull market in history, they could have made back their losses... Look at all that opportunity lost.

If they think they'll get $37 back, they're dreaming... take the best offer you can get and move on. What does an investor care about what happens after they are paid?
Not everyone is a shark like you. Many people have investments in an RRSP account and follow the classic Warren Buffet approach of buy and hold. Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business. The use of the word "greed" is offensive for people that are wiling to take risk and support a company.

President Maduro of Venezuela , shares your views on capitalism and "greedy shareholders".
Maduro? Hardly.

Support a company? Double hardly... do you believe these people you mention just let their money evaporate over the past 12 years to support a non-dividend paying money losing company? LOL...

Nothing wrong with being greedy, but if you're riding it out "believing the management lies" as you put it and you get bit it's all on you. The market owes you nothing... If you are going to ride it out you better have your own research and reasons.

LOL on Warned Buffet comparison. Are you serious? "I rode Blockbuster into the ground because it's what Warren Buffet would do... where did I go wrong"
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Diadem »

tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:21 pm and how many successful companies have you run ?
What? What the hell does that have to do with understanding how publicly-traded shares work? Only CEOs know how investment works?
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL320
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by FL320 »

Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business.
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
Fortunately your management see a potential in Transat. They will most probably share the same business model in the near future, my dear future colleague 🥳
---------- ADS -----------
 
lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1306
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by lownslow »

The period of exclusivity must be over by now. Did anyone buy anyone yet?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by Diadem »

FL320 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:33 pm
Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
tsgas wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 am Without investors companies would have a hard time remaining in business.
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
Fortunately your management see a potential in Transat. They will most probably share the same business model in the near future, my dear future colleague 🥳
I don't work for either, and I have no stakes in this specific transaction. I just thought that statement by tsgas was ridiculous, and his knowledge of economics lacking.
---------- ADS -----------
 
tsgas
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Outbid

Post by tsgas »

Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:45 pm
FL320 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:33 pm
Diadem wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
If a business needs constant investment to stay afloat, and can't do so by selling goods and services to their customers, then they have an atrocious business model and should fail. When you buy stocks on the open market, the company doesn't get anything from that; you're buying from other shareholders. The company got its cash in the IPO, and if they need to keep splitting shares and selling more to raise more money, then they aren't long for this world.
Fortunately your management see a potential in Transat. They will most probably share the same business model in the near future, my dear future colleague 🥳
I don't work for either, and I have no stakes in this specific transaction. I just thought that statement by tsgas was ridiculous, and his knowledge of economics lacking.
Diadem is a blowhard that thinks he is some kind of a financial expert because he watches Fast Money. The lad doesn't understand that the company needs a combination of debt and equity , in order to run the business. Stock options and RSU's depend on the strike price of shares. When a company's shares become undervalued, relative to the companies book value, than you have attempts at takeovers.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by tsgas on Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “Air Transat”