Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

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flyinhigh
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by flyinhigh »

What job security?

If I and my colleagues had job security we would be at work and hundreds would be layed off at AC instead. So do tell, what job security am I enjoying as I apply for EI due to ALL operators shutting down??

I've stayed out of this topic for quite some time, but cannot anymore. I am just getting tired of listening to a handful of AC drivers telling me how I feel and how I am riding the high life with no worries. Give me a fuckin break, I have a family, I have a house, If go to work and my wife's employer finds out I went out of country, she is off without pay for two weeks (oh, she's now the sole income earner due to the impending layoff).

Stop arguing about what AC will or will not do. These are turbulent times and yes they may pull out of the deal, I know if I was management I would look at it extremely hard. What can I do about it? NOTHING and quite frankly I don't give a shit as there is much larger issues at play, kinda like how to feed my family. On the flip side, AC may look at it and the positives will out way the negatives and the deal will still get gone whether you like it or not, and you know what, I still need to figure out how to feed my family.

End of Rant, but if one more person tells me as a Transat pilot how I feel...

Oh and for the ones that want to bitch about my grammer, @#$! off.....
Sharklasers wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:50 am
Lucky TRZ pilots who get to enjoy the job security of working at AC without having to work there at all.
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Last edited by flyinhigh on Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

airboy1 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:46 pm
98 Corolla wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Has a seniority list merger ever happened during a layoff period? What happens then?
Does it matter? It's not like pilots have a say in the matter.

Probably more politics at play, TRZ needs this to survive. I still think it will be a conditional requirment for a bailout package at AC. Lots of jobs at play.
Some people are trying to turn a commercial agreement taken freely between two corporations in a government imposed aid package to save Air Transat from bankruptcy.

Back to the facts:

1) Air Canada made an unsolicited offer offer to buy Transat, which was not for sale.
2) The initial lower offer was increased to $18 after other entities attempted to outbid the AC offer
3) Air Canada asked the governments to approve the transaction
4) The governments will approve or refuse
5) If AC receives the green light allowing it to proceed with the purchase, it will be under no obligation to do so, only to abide by the agreement that the two parties signed.

The politicians have no say in this. None.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

98 Corolla wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Has a seniority list merger ever happened during a layoff period? What happens then?
I would say any pilot on layoff before the seniority list merger will remain on layoff. Even if pilots junior to them are merged into the list. ie. AC pilots will remain laid off while TS pilots are employed.

Any additional layoffs after the list merger will be in order of seniority. ie mostly AC pilots and a few TS pilots layed off while the majority of TS pilots remain employed.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:54 am

Some people are trying to turn a commercial agreement taken freely between two corporations in a government imposed aid package to save Air Transat from bankruptcy.

Back to the facts:

1) Air Canada made an unsolicited offer offer to buy Transat, which was not for sale.
2) The initial lower offer was increased to $18 after other entities attempted to outbid the AC offer
3) Air Canada asked the governments to approve the transaction
4) The governments will approve or refuse
5) If AC receives the green light allowing it to proceed with the purchase, it will be under no obligation to do so, only to abide by the agreement that the two parties signed.

The politicians have no say in this. None.
Gilles,

Good summary of the facts. But add one more fact - CR.

He has a track record of 100% success since taking over at AC and has never let a good crisis go to waste. No one who has gone up against him has come away unscathed. And he is the master of leverage.

His favourite quote? “Nothing focuses someone’s attention more than showing them their own grave”.

This is no longer a simple up or down choice. There are many new moving parts. And government will be involved in those discussions. But the final decision will rest with AC.
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by TFTMB heavy »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:30 am
98 Corolla wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Has a seniority list merger ever happened during a layoff period? What happens then?
I would say any pilot on layoff before the seniority list merger will remain on layoff. Even if pilots junior to them are merged into the list. ie. AC pilots will remain laid off while TS pilots are employed.

Any additional layoffs after the list merger will be in order of seniority. ie mostly AC pilots and a few TS pilots layed off while the majority of TS pilots remain employed.
You are correct, you just have the names of the players backwards. All of TS pilots are laid off and a fraction of AC. If the lists are merged during these layoffs, all TS pilots senior to AC pilots that are still working would remain laid off. Meaning that if you are senior and laid off you can't go bump a junior pilot that is working when the lists merge. You get called back in order of seniority.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:52 am
If the lists are merged during these layoffs, all TS pilots senior to AC pilots that are still working would remain laid off.
Interesting. Thanks for the correction.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:09 am
TFTMB heavy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:52 am
If the lists are merged during these layoffs, all TS pilots senior to AC pilots that are still working would remain laid off.
Interesting. Thanks for the correction.
Typically, implementation of an ISL (Integrated Seniority List) includes a “no bump - no flush” provision. This is either agreed or in almost all cases is included in an arbitrated award.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Dockjock »

Nothing to to with politicians? I beg to differ, but in this case in addition to the usual cynical back room involvement of politicians, we have a genuine worldwide crisis unfolding where their involvement is not only required but should be welcomed. Much at stake, merger/bailout call it what you want, this isn’t a normal transaction anymore. All airlines will be receiving support and there WILL be strings attached (hint hint).
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98 Corolla
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 98 Corolla »

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:52 am
You get called back in order of seniority.
This is when it could potentially get ugly. If Air Canada pilots are still laid off post merger and Transat pilots are called back before them. That would not be conducive to a peaceful merger.
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Sharklasers
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Sharklasers »

Not only that, the Transat pilots are basically snapshotted in their seats while laid off and AC is going to run a downbid and keep working. A lot of guys are going to loose their captaincies for a time and that will really hurt our position when it comes to a ‘no bump/flush’ situation.
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tintin42
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tintin42 »

To all those who think that TS might close before the AC deal is decided, Transat layed off that many people to save their money and survive longer instead of waisting money on empty plane. The way Transat is at idle now we have enough money to last more than a year. I think it's longer than most airline right now. How long would AC survive if it continues to operate the way it is now if the pendemy last? (honest question, I'm not trying to piss off more the AC pilots)
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Careful tintin I got called a degenerate for suggesting that.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by flyinhigh »

d
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tintin42 »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 am
Careful tintin I got called a degenerate for suggesting that.
What did I suggest?
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

rudder wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:15 am
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:54 am

Some people are trying to turn a commercial agreement taken freely between two corporations in a government imposed aid package to save Air Transat from bankruptcy.

Back to the facts:

1) Air Canada made an unsolicited offer offer to buy Transat, which was not for sale.
2) The initial lower offer was increased to $18 after other entities attempted to outbid the AC offer
3) Air Canada asked the governments to approve the transaction
4) The governments will approve or refuse
5) If AC receives the green light allowing it to proceed with the purchase, it will be under no obligation to do so, only to abide by the agreement that the two parties signed.

The politicians have no say in this. None.
Gilles,

Good summary of the facts. But add one more fact - CR.

He has a track record of 100% success since taking over at AC and has never let a good crisis go to waste. No one who has gone up against him has come away unscathed. And he is the master of leverage.

His favourite quote? “Nothing focuses someone’s attention more than showing them their own grave”.

This is no longer a simple up or down choice. There are many new moving parts. And government will be involved in those discussions. But the final decision will rest with AC.
I thought it was “ Nothing focuses the mind like a hanging in the morning”.

I know same difference.

The key for him though is to get what he wants before a stay of execution is granted.

CR won’t let this go to waste.

Maybe something like seeking concessions from AC employees in exchange for bailing on the deal? He could easily get AC employees to pay the 40 million break fee.

I have my doubts this deal won’t become a condition of government industry support though. I think the events unfolding only make the deal more inevitable. Not at 18 bucks but a revised deal of some sort.

Rouge has now ceased operation. Those 320’s can flow back to mainline. 737 no longer needed. Ramp Transat up as leisure returns.

Maybe run Transat separate until everyone is recalled at AC? What do you think CR could extract for that? Oh the potential.

Demand Transat pilot's roll back their pay increase plus 10%.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

Fanblade wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:37 am

Maybe run Transat separate until everyone is recalled at AC? What do you think CR could extract for that? Oh the potential
"Never let a good crisis go to waste."

1. Buy transat for cheaper than now.

2. Negociate with ACPA, AC will pretend to bend and shut down Rouge while it was actually what they wanted to do anyways. Bring the rouge pilots back to mainline. Pilots think they ran the show.

3. In exchange ACPA will allow AC to have a complete seperate seniority list and OC with transat and all laid off pilots recalled at AC recalled (flat salary = cheap).

4. Slowly unload the rouge flights to transat.

Next recession/crisis (or sooner):

5. Rename Air Canada shares to a holding company ie "Maple leaf aviation holdings"

6. Transat becomes a domestic/LCC and AC does only international widebody flying.

7. Negociate with transat pilots to take a solid cut or AC will shut that operation down.

8. AC pilots forced to transfer to transat for B scale wages because of reductions of mainline flying.

Beauty
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by RippleRock »

Your "creative" theory ends at point two.

Scope isn't open for negotiations.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

RippleRock wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:04 am
Your "creative" theory ends at point two.

Scope isn't open for negotiations.
True. But CR always had a Plan A/Plan B/Plan C for how TS was going to be added.

I saw Plan A as an ask to run it separately (no way).

I saw Plan B as an ask to consolidate TS with Rouge and increase the LCC footprint at AC (no way).

I saw Plan C as merging the Rouge pilots back in to mainline WAWCON, drop the Rouge OC, and designate TS as the LCC per the LCC LOU.

And I am sure that with what has happened in the past 3 weeks there may now be a Plan D/Plan E/Plan F. Or perhaps the fate of the initiative has become moot.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

RippleRock wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:04 am
Your "creative" theory ends at point two.

Scope isn't open for negotiations.
Creating rouge wasn't up for negotiations before FOS.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Duke15 »

Sharklasers wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:29 am
Not only that, the Transat pilots are basically snapshotted in their seats while laid off and AC is going to run a downbid and keep working. A lot of guys are going to loose their captaincies for a time and that will really hurt our position when it comes to a ‘no bump/flush’ situation.
Very valid point, hopefully ACPA will be able to negotiate well and we will use a snapshot of our current assignements as opposed to a future one
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

rudder wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:24 am
RippleRock wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:04 am
Your "creative" theory ends at point two.

Scope isn't open for negotiations.
True. But CR always had a Plan A/Plan B/Plan C for how TS was going to be added.
Not completely accurate. An arbitrator can not touch scope during the term. It does not prevent ACPA and the company voluntarily negotiating scope. For example there was an increase in Rouge Narrow bodies during the last reopener. Cargo was on the table for a bit.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by jpilot77 »

Competition Board report on the acquisition is out

https://business.financialpost.com/pmn ... ompetition
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

For info Transat and AC got the report Monday afternoon, we got a briefing about the content and the fact that AC is still planning to go ahead with the transaction. Anyway the report is already outdated.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by aerodude »

FL320 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:30 pm
For info Transat and AC got the report Monday afternoon, we got a briefing about the content and the fact that AC is still planning to go ahead with the transaction. Anyway the report is already outdated.
Its a smart move. Will replace rouge and keep jobs. Cant see why government would block it. TRZ share price is climbing too.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

aerodude wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:01 pm
FL320 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:30 pm
For info Transat and AC got the report Monday afternoon, we got a briefing about the content and the fact that AC is still planning to go ahead with the transaction. Anyway the report is already outdated.
TRZ share price is climbing too.
:prayer: :prayer: :rolleyes:
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