Monkey_in_a_suit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:37 am With any luck ACPA and ALPA negotiate a whiny bitch clause that will put FL280 at BOTL
HA! Dying!!
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Monkey_in_a_suit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:37 am With any luck ACPA and ALPA negotiate a whiny bitch clause that will put FL280 at BOTL
Finally something both groups can agree on!Monkey_in_a_suit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:37 am With any luck ACPA and ALPA negotiate a whiny bitch clause that will put FL280 at BOTL
FL-280 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:03 am I don't consider myself as an entitled piece of shit...we are all just trying to protect or hold on to our careers and career choices. Reading through the old and new ac pilot forums, I would say the proposition or "my crack" at what a merged list would look like is not that bad! A lot of ac pilots think the same way I do, and even some are more extreme.
I understand many pilots have a good amount of years in at TS. I do believe they should be treated fairly. I also believe the bottom 180-200 at TS getting tapped to the bottom is fair. We both have this in comon, we have vetted interest in this happening or not happening. It looks to me the junior TS pilots want the merge to happen but don't want to give up anything for it! What is 3-5 years seniority to be on the flag carrier's list and not have to go through a major time of instability the way you have again? Ask any pilot that was a Canadian Airlines pilot, sure 2-7 years hit on the seniority front sucks but their career was much better afterwards.
I believe this merger could be good, I focus on COULD. After townhall, I think it will create a powerhouse in the leisure and Atlantic market. But at the end of the day, I don't want any junior TS pilot furthering their career at my or any other AC pilots expense.
I look forward for this to be over, we will then be able to focus on doing what we love.
If you want to talk about pay, let's talk about career earnings over a 30 year career. This would account for all levels of seniority and pay steps. AC would win this comparison by 1-2 million $. Again, I ask: What is a certain seniority hit for 1-2 million $ ?
Ok, but you should question why everyone else does?
AbsolutelyTFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:29 am
BTW, the pilot 200 from the bottom at TS has put in almost 4 years,100 from the bottom is 2 years in. They should slide in after the most jr AC pilot?
Oh well, you’ll be disappointed I guess.FL-280 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:08 amAbsolutelyTFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:29 am
BTW, the pilot 200 from the bottom at TS has put in almost 4 years,100 from the bottom is 2 years in. They should slide in after the most jr AC pilot?
Air Transat new hires typically much younger than AC. Pretty easy to get hired at Air Transat at 24 years old with no 705 CA time and in many cases no 705 time. Try that at AC... it happens from time to time but is an anomaly at Air Transat it's a trend..... there absolutely should be considerations with how much longer it takes to get to Air Canada vs Air Transat as a pilot.
Canadian pilots made out quite well in the merger, well those at the middle and top.
Unfortunately it looks like the restrictions there will be. I'm sure they've had a preview of what's coming and the $5 is partly to help offset the costs associated. That's what I'm assuming anyways, based on what both companies said when the new deal was announced and the EU taking their sweet time.TheStig wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:33 pm To put a different spin on this deal, in Spittin' Chiclets parlance, this deal would make AC a WAGON...and its pilots should get PAID. It's easy for everyone to think about what they stand to loose with a merger but there could be a tremendous upside too.
A bunch of leased airplanes aren't worth much but if this deal is approved without restrictions the improvement on yields over the Atlantic alone could be worth $190 million in one summer (albeit probably not Q3 2021). The last decade of profits in the US market were the result of merging a dozen airlines into 5. Just a guesstimate, 95%? of the market from Canada to Europe would be AF/KLM, IAG and AC (and Star Alliance partners), that lack of competition is a dream come true to the commercial side of the operation.
It's easy to see the bad blood growing here, but hopefully the two unions can reach an expedient agreement, get ourselves organized and capitalize on the opportunity as the industry recovers.
FL320 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:36 pmLol that’s what I thought too. Pretty good news Cappo1, AT can call back more people (even better if it’s written in caps!)TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:48 pmIn regards to Quote 2: TS workforce is considerably reduced compared to AC.Cappo1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:09 pm Did any AC pilots get the Coles notes with what Calin said . I have them but I'm not posting the screen shot.
I'll start by saying it was very specific its not the same as Canadian and AC merging because an acquisition is a takeover. Arirelle said "it's an ACQUISITION."
He outlined
Quote 1. " time frame can take at LEAST 3 years due to the reduction of ASM over the Atlantic and CV19"
"We will both be smaller "
I am pleased to read that clarification was set regarding structure of employees. No TS pilots altering our seniority lists or taking over our jobs.
Quote 2. " Transat has to take a workforce downsize AT LEAST ( as it was written in all caps) to ours" . And there will be " no more AC layoffs"
I think its clarified no one from TS will be knocking us out of our jobs and off the seniority list and vice versa. I am comparing it to real estate . I buy my house and it does not include the previous tenants.
When TS does downsize, it appears they will be kept separate and that's a good thing for both airlines. They can grow on their own accord and our pilots will retain their status.
Can you send the screenshot so our strong union can negotiate with the company?
You are right that insults are not required. There are some very good points and arguments made by some, too bad the trolls try to derail conversations.altiplano wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:35 pm Everyone's going to advocate for what's best for their side.
That's a fact.
I think it's funny you guys insult people over it... you don't have to accept it, and it doesn't add up to a hill of beans, but why the insults?
Just like TS guys want to come across as far up the list as they can, AC guys want to stay as far up the list as they can. You tell someone else to roll over, they tell you to roll over, what's the difference?
I know guys will go in ahead of me. I accept that, but I want as few as we can convince an arbitrator is reasonable. You don't like that? Well, maybe I don't like what you're seeking either. So it's an agree to disagree thing and let the arbitrator sort it out scenario.
It's not personal, it's not you're less of a pilot, it's just the way it landed, I would have loved to work at Transat before and I couldn't get hired because I couldn't speak French, so lucky me I got in eventually at AC, maybe it could have been the other way around for any one of us.
So let's just accept that we're all going to try to get as good as we can for ourselves, and not take it personal, and we can turn our gaze to the new CEO and extracting the best we can on a new collective agreement.
We must have watched a totally different town hall. You are doing some serious mental gymnastics to get to these conclusions. What we need to do is prepare for an inevitable list merger and get the best result we can get. Being in denial will not accomplish that.Gulfstream5 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:05 pmFL320 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:36 pmLol that’s what I thought too. Pretty good news Cappo1, AT can call back more people (even better if it’s written in caps!)TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:48 pm
In regards to Quote 2: TS workforce is considerably reduced compared to AC.
Can you send the screenshot so our strong union can negotiate with the company?
Who said anything about pilots and in-flight ? I watched the town hall and as far as I interpreted it and according to my FO this deal will take the aircraft and leave the Transat employees looking for a flying job with purolator. Absolutely correct about there being ONE list, acpa wouldn't have it any other way. From their mouths and not mine , "with so many of our own furloughed and waiting for recalls, AC has no requirement or need to bring on any additional pilots or IFS as the increase in fins can easily be flown by the total amount of AC pilots and any additional ones required with updated flight and duty times can be taken from the pool full of WestJet pilots who are seeing their network shrink"
fl320, you are definately way out in lala land, I recommend getting some more air at FL240 in prop.
Lol, good one.