AC and TRZ Agree to Terminate Arrangement

[milhouse]

Ok so the liberals will approve it because AC really wants it? AC really wants government aid too but the government has dragged its feet even with a political angle(protecting jobs vs the trade off of the public hates the airlines). So what is the government's motivation to approve? Remember the government works for votes.

Canada is not a communist country (yet). Governement never refused a merger. Conditions will apply. Transat and AC are still two private companies as far as I am concerned. This merger is happening , time to move on.

Um mergers and acquisitions are subject to regulatory approval all over the world in every western country, I'm not sure what communism has to do with everything. Even the US, one of the most free market countries in the world, has an active justice department that aggressively pursues anti-trust cases.

I'm not necessarily saying the government won't approve, I am saying they will absolutely give a justification for overriding anti-competive concerns. Yet there seems to be no plausible justification yet. So again what would they say in the press release to justify approval. Sorry Canadians we know it's bad for the public but in Canada we let the corporations do what they want. Does that sound like something the liberals will do?

Are you really in such a deep state of denial or do you just have zero imagination? The government will just talk about how this is the best way to move forward in a post pandemic environment blah blah blah protect jobs etc etc. This will not be a hard sell.

In fact it's a much easier sell now than it was pre pandemic.

Go take a look at the last page of the competition report. It basically says "please be aware that this analysis was made based on the pre covid environment and may no longer accurately reflect the new reality of the airline industry". They gave the government the easiest out in the world to ignore their report.

[ahramin]

BTW, I could be wrong, but a previous PFO at AC could be grounds for AC to not integrate a TRZ employee.

Yes, it's a big concern. I know a guy who was desperately trying to become an Air Canada pilot for a decade. Kept getting PFOed but he kept applying even once he got on with Transat. Now after 18 years he's going to lose his job at TS because of this acquisition. Sad really.

[jpilot77]

AC really negotiated a great deal out of this. Mind you, a large part of the original purchase price was also acquiring TRZ's cash on hand 1:1. So with that depleted, the value has correspondingly dropped to the value of their assets alone. Nice, lean deal.

We can all thank the Gov't for the state we're in. Don't blame AC, TRZ, or more importantly, TS or AC pilots (As if we're making the damn rules.... even though some characters here seem to think they own the companies)

Even the ICAO protocols state that in the "Inital Stages" of a pandemic, restricting travel is beneficial to stop spread, but are NOT EFFECTIVE in the long term. It makes no sense when the entire world population has similar infection rates.

Anyways, Polkaroo Garneau still has to weigh in, and I worry about decisions made under their quixotic environmental mandate.
I really believe this is colouring aviation decisions right now, and 3 more years until the next election......

The Liberals are in a minority, who knows when the next election will be.

[LittleNelly]

Canada is not a communist country (yet). Governement never refused a merger. Conditions will apply. Transat and AC are still two private companies as far as I am concerned. This merger is happening , time to move on.

Um mergers and acquisitions are subject to regulatory approval all over the world in every western country, I'm not sure what communism has to do with everything. Even the US, one of the most free market countries in the world, has an active justice department that aggressively pursues anti-trust cases.

I'm not necessarily saying the government won't approve, I am saying they will absolutely give a justification for overriding anti-competive concerns. Yet there seems to be no plausible justification yet. So again what would they say in the press release to justify approval. Sorry Canadians we know it's bad for the public but in Canada we let the corporations do what they want. Does that sound like something the liberals will do?

They did in the Canadian north/first air merger a year or so ago, nothing preventing from doing it again. À necessary consolidation of canadian airlines is a pretty good argument.

Good example, yes it was deemed anti-competive but the justification for the public good was made that both carriers were struggling from competition and a healthy air service in the Arctic is an essential service. If Air Canada and Transat are forecast to survive the pandemic than this argument would not be politically viable. Nor is transatlantic leisure the same as essential Arctic travel.
The AC/Canadian merger was also deemed anti-competive but the argument for the public good was Canadian would face liquidation if not approved. They choose jobs.

So how is the consolidation a good argument? The government will not declare boosting airlines bottom lines as the key public interest. They need to give an argument for either protecting a vital service, the consumer, or jobs.
Or they may just say screw it who cares what the public thinks. But it does not seem that AC has that kind of relationship with the government at the moment.

[LittleNelly]

Canada is not a communist country (yet). Governement never refused a merger. Conditions will apply. Transat and AC are still two private companies as far as I am concerned. This merger is happening , time to move on.

Um mergers and acquisitions are subject to regulatory approval all over the world in every western country, I'm not sure what communism has to do with everything. Even the US, one of the most free market countries in the world, has an active justice department that aggressively pursues anti-trust cases.

I'm not necessarily saying the government won't approve, I am saying they will absolutely give a justification for overriding anti-competive concerns. Yet there seems to be no plausible justification yet. So again what would they say in the press release to justify approval. Sorry Canadians we know it's bad for the public but in Canada we let the corporations do what they want. Does that sound like something the liberals will do?

Are you really in such a deep state of denial or do you just have zero imagination? The government will just talk about how this is the best way to move forward in a post pandemic environment blah blah blah protect jobs etc etc. This will not be a hard sell.

In fact it's a much easier sell now than it was pre pandemic.

Go take a look at the last page of the competition report. It basically says "please be aware that this analysis was made based on the pre covid environment and may no longer accurately reflect the new reality of the airline industry". They gave the government the easiest out in the world to ignore their conclusion.

Arguing allowing it to protect jobs? When was the last time you saw a merger announced with that? It is always accompanied by position cuts. Literally right in the concession proposals to gain approval is indicating cuts!

Yes if it's painted as Transat is going out of business, they will approve to "save the jobs of Transat". So do you say Transat will go out of business if AC doesn't "rescue" them?

[FL320]

What AC wants is irrelevant to approval. Like I said the federal liberal government needs a political angle to approve it against the competition report. There has not been a single one put forward to that end. So again why would the liberals approve it?

And yes many joke on here about the integration but in the end both air Canada and Transat employees will suffer through a permanent elimination of positions. Remember it's not just pilots, over 40,000 people work for both companies and many will never come back. There has never been an airline merger that has resulted in growth of employment, AC is even already openly offering to make cuts.

So again the public doesn't win and the employees don't win, what is the political angle to approve?

This transaction will be approved both domestically and by the EU, with conditions.

With the uptick in share price, AC is looking at what will likely turn out to be a virtual non-cash acquisition of TRZ. AC is an extremely motivated buyer looking forward to consummating the transaction as opposed to looking for ways to void it.

This is a 99% done deal and labour should start to plan for this eventuality.

Ok so the liberals will approve it because AC really wants it? AC really wants government aid too but the government has dragged its feet even with a political angle(protecting jobs vs the trade off of the public hates the airlines). So what is the government's motivation to approve? Remember the government works for votes.

I think AC will accept to refund passengers and stop to shred more domestic routes only if the liberals approve the deal. Like you said government works for votes.

[VeRmiLLioN]

BTW, I could be wrong, but a previous PFO at AC could be grounds for AC to not integrate a TRZ employee.

100% wrong.

Can you show me the legal reference why you are 100% direct?

[rudder]

Domestic approval was a given once AC did not walk away given the opportunity once all extensions had been exhausted.

[milhouse]

Yes if it's painted as Transat is going out of business, they will approve to "save the jobs of Transat". So do you say Transat will go out of business if AC doesn't "rescue" them?

What do you mean IF? They are already painting it that way. Did you not read the Q4 statements from friday? They literally said if the transaction with AC doesn't happen they may not survive. The government will just say better than bail out TRZ with tax dollars we'll let AC foot the bill. Easy sell.

[rudder]

BTW, I could be wrong, but a previous PFO at AC could be grounds for AC to not integrate a TRZ employee hi.

100% wrong.

Can you show me the legal reference why you are 100% direct?

You are kidding, right? Have you NEVER been though a merger before?

How about the entire history of pilot seniority integrations in Canadian history.

Or more simply - the AC/CDN merger. Lots of CDN pilots from PWA/ND/EPA with AC PFO letters that retired as AC WB CA.

Take the fear mongering to a Trump rally.

[LittleNelly]

This transaction will be approved both domestically and by the EU, with conditions.

With the uptick in share price, AC is looking at what will likely turn out to be a virtual non-cash acquisition of TRZ. AC is an extremely motivated buyer looking forward to consummating the transaction as opposed to looking for ways to void it.

This is a 99% done deal and labour should start to plan for this eventuality.

Ok so the liberals will approve it because AC really wants it? AC really wants government aid too but the government has dragged its feet even with a political angle(protecting jobs vs the trade off of the public hates the airlines). So what is the government's motivation to approve? Remember the government works for votes.

I think AC will accept to refund passengers and stop to shred more domestic routes only if the liberals approve the deal. Like you said government works for votes.

I agree, being able to announce refunds with the deal would sell it to the public 100%. The question then would be is AC willing to shell out what $2-4 billion in cash to make the deal happen. If so, then yes that’ll do it.

[FL320]

Ok so the liberals will approve it because AC really wants it? AC really wants government aid too but the government has dragged its feet even with a political angle(protecting jobs vs the trade off of the public hates the airlines). So what is the government's motivation to approve? Remember the government works for votes.

N
I think AC will accept to refund passengers and stop to shred more domestic routes only if the liberals approve the deal. Like you said government works for votes.

I agree, being able to announce refunds with the deal would sell it to the public 100%. The question then would be is AC willing to shell out what $2-4 billion in cash to make the deal happen. If so, then yes that’ll do it.

Garneau said in an interview that the Gov will support the airlines as soon as they confirm by a written statement that they will refund the passengers. I think AC will sign a statement, make it public then get the gov. support + the deal approval; and then slowly refund the pax.

[LittleNelly]

N
I think AC will accept to refund passengers and stop to shred more domestic routes only if the liberals approve the deal. Like you said government works for votes.

I agree, being able to announce refunds with the deal would sell it to the public 100%. The question then would be is AC willing to shell out what $2-4 billion in cash to make the deal happen. If so, then yes that’ll do it.

Garneau said in an interview that the Gov will support the airlines as soon as they confirm by a written statement that they will refund the passengers. I think AC will sign a statement, make it public then get the gov. support + the deal approval.

Yeah it will also depend on the conditions set for support. If its no strings attached free money that AC can use to refund passengers and fund the acquisition then I believe they will do a deal. If the government tries to impose conditions such as ownership then AC may not accept and walk away from refunds and Transat.

My point was this is far from decided as the government needs an angle to override competition and employment reduction concerns. It can be done but it is definitely not guaranteed.

[confuzed]

BTW, I could be wrong, but a previous PFO at AC could be grounds for AC to not integrate a TRZ employee.

100% wrong.

Can you show me the legal reference why you are 100% direct?

I don't know, something called a collective agreement to which the purchaser HAS to abide by.....

[LittleNelly]

Yes if it's painted as Transat is going out of business, they will approve to "save the jobs of Transat". So do you say Transat will go out of business if AC doesn't "rescue" them?

What do you mean IF? They are already painting it that way. Did you not read the Q4 statements from friday? They literally said if the transaction with AC doesn't happen they may not survive. The government will just say better than bail out TRZ with tax dollars we'll let AC foot the bill. Easy sell.

If only there was another buyer to "rescue" Transat.. Oh wait.
Thats assuming AC receives no aid from the government. If they do the perception will be the government sent aid to Air Canada to be used to acquire a competitor to the detriment of the Canadian public. Tax payer money to pay off shareholders of a company.. Maybe if they just didnt have the fallout from CEWS being used to pay dividends. The government is on the look out now.

It would be better for everyone if the government just gave Transat(the COMPANY and not its shareholders) the $500 million in aid. Giving Air Canada extra compensation to take over transat which will just go to compensate shareholders of Transat is pointless.

Either way Transat will get its rescue, whether it be Air Canada or the government. Keeping them separate is in the best interest of the public as well as the employees of both companies.

[milhouse]

Yes if it's painted as Transat is going out of business, they will approve to "save the jobs of Transat". So do you say Transat will go out of business if AC doesn't "rescue" them?

What do you mean IF? They are already painting it that way. Did you not read the Q4 statements from friday? They literally said if the transaction with AC doesn't happen they may not survive. The government will just say better than bail out TRZ with tax dollars we'll let AC foot the bill. Easy sell.

If only there was another buyer to "rescue" Transat.. Oh wait.
Thats assuming AC receives no aid from the government. If they do the perception will be the government sent aid to Air Canada to be used to acquire a competitor to the detriment of the Canadian public. Tax payer money to pay off shareholders of a company.. Maybe if they just didnt have the fallout from CEWS being used to pay dividends. The government is on the look out now.

It would be better for everyone if the government just gave Transat(the COMPANY and not its shareholders) the $500 million in aid. Giving Air Canada extra compensation to take over transat which will just go to compensate shareholders of Transat is pointless.

Either way Transat will get its rescue, whether it be Air Canada or the government. Keeping them separate is in the best interest of the public as well as the employees of both companies.

This buy out was never about doing what's best for the public or the employees. And they felt confident they could get the approvals before the pandemic and beforeTransat was in any trouble. Should be even easier now. I'm just telling you how the government is gonna sell it. You don't have to believe it, just wait a couple of months and see.

[LittleNelly]

What do you mean IF? They are already painting it that way. Did you not read the Q4 statements from friday? They literally said if the transaction with AC doesn't happen they may not survive. The government will just say better than bail out TRZ with tax dollars we'll let AC foot the bill. Easy sell.

If only there was another buyer to "rescue" Transat.. Oh wait.
Thats assuming AC receives no aid from the government. If they do the perception will be the government sent aid to Air Canada to be used to acquire a competitor to the detriment of the Canadian public. Tax payer money to pay off shareholders of a company.. Maybe if they just didnt have the fallout from CEWS being used to pay dividends. The government is on the look out now.

It would be better for everyone if the government just gave Transat(the COMPANY and not its shareholders) the $500 million in aid. Giving Air Canada extra compensation to take over transat which will just go to compensate shareholders of Transat is pointless.

Either way Transat will get its rescue, whether it be Air Canada or the government. Keeping them separate is in the best interest of the public as well as the employees of both companies.

This buy out was never about doing what's best for the public or the employees. And they felt confident they could get the approvals before the pandemic and beforeTransat was in any trouble. Should be even easier now. I'm just telling you how the government is gonna sell it. You don't have to believe it, just wait a couple of months and see.

Ok, but what is the motivation for the government to "sell it" at all costs, voter perception and backlash be damned? The government does not care what Air Canada wants, they will do what is in the publics best interest(and sometimes employees) if nothing else but for their own self interest in securing public support for themselves.
Say if they they offer refunds, or Transat really will liquidate without another buyer, then yes that gives the government incentive to sell a deal to the public. Without that they have no reason to. Unless you are implying that Air Canada has cozy questionable connections with the liberal party? Though im sure if that was the case then AC would have gotten its aid package 6 months ago.

[GATRKGA]

The comments in here make me LOL so hard.

Rudder is on point.

Anyone thinking every pilot won't have a job coming out of this are just pessimistic and trying to feed their own agenda of how they want this panning out.

Congratulations to every TS pilot who wanted this outcome. You get to be an AC pilot now.

No fist fights now in the flight deck boys and girls.

Guess what the next thing will be after the bs regarding PFO'd TS pilot's not getting on? TS pilot's have to pass an AC medical to get a job with AC. Yes, the diabetic 55 year old is going to pass an AC medical or lose his TS job. Give me a break you idiots.

Everyone will be integrated and will be screwed over in one way or another, then you forget it when you taxi under the water cannon salute on your last flight when CBC interviews you and makes you feel important.

[LittleNelly]

Anyone thinking every pilot won't have a job coming out of this are just pessimistic and trying to feed their own agenda of how they want this panning out.

If say in Feb both companies required around 5000-5500 pilots in their outlook. Now combining concessions as well as general upgauging and reduction of capacity long term planning could be say 4000-4500 pilots. Without the competition capacity will shrink with prices and yields rising. For the employees that will mean less positions to go around. I wouldnt call getting the opportunity to comeback years down the road as a job. And dont forget almost 40,000 people work for both companies, many will permanently loose their jobs without the ability to be called back. They matter too.

[Latitude]

The comments in here make me LOL so hard.

Rudder is on point.

Anyone thinking every pilot won't have a job coming out of this are just pessimistic and trying to feed their own agenda of how they want this panning out.

Congratulations to every TS pilot who wanted this outcome. You get to be an AC pilot now.

No fist fights now in the flight deck boys and girls.

Guess what the next thing will be after the bs regarding PFO'd TS pilot's not getting on? TS pilot's have to pass an AC medical to get a job with AC. Yes, the diabetic 55 year old is going to pass an AC medical or lose his TS job. Give me a break you idiots.

Everyone will be integrated and will be screwed over in one way or another, then you forget it when you taxi under the water cannon salute on your last flight when CBC interviews you and makes you feel important.

Best comment ever. This sums it up.