AC and TRZ Agree to Terminate Arrangement

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Kapitanov
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Kapitanov »

On another note, May 2nd passed, which means Transport Canada (should) has made its recommendation to Minister Garneau. I don't think the info was supposed to go public, and obviously it didn't. BUT, Air Canada CEO and CFO will host a conference call and a webcast tomorrow on May 4th, 2020 at 08:30 ET to announce Air Canada's first quarter 2020 financial results.

Talk about good timing! My guess, tomorrow might be a turning point about the outcome of this transaction. Investors want to know what's the plan and what's really gonna happen with the deal and now that AC is aware of the decision of TC I guess, that conference call could be the perfect occasion to announce big news to the market. There is also a webcast the next day for AC employees only.

Links to the webcast on the AC investor relations page: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... tions.html

Anyhow, stay tuned tomorrow!
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98 Corolla
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 98 Corolla »

tailgunner wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 8:19 am 160tonoaha,
I have serious doubts about whether you fly for AC. None of my experiences line up with yours at all. You have simply repeated oft said claims about the FD attitude, and conversations on AC’s FD’s. None of it happens to any type of degree that you claim.
I’ll tell you what, why don’t you give us the years of service and the equipment that the 5th pilot from the top of the April retirement bulletin flew. No names.
I’m sure you have the list, and can provide that within a few moments.
Cheers.
Was it DB? :lol:

I agree there is some real pieces of work at AC. That said some of the coolest people I ever met work at AC. There's such a range. You never know what you're going to get.
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tailgunner
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tailgunner »

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Last edited by tailgunner on Sun May 03, 2020 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tailgunner
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by tailgunner »

98 Corolla,
There’s a few dousies for sure!
However, every time I have flown with a new hire, they all say the same thing. This place is nothing like what an read about on the internet. 99.5% of the crews are great, and the company is actually very supportive. Obviously every place has its warts, but most of the time the loudest critics of AC were never here on the property. They either believed the hype and never applied, or were never hired in the first place.
Cheers.
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

That's good to hear. Most guys I've met, and friends that have had intake to AC are great. I actually have some faith in the selection process- I know a couple of real treats at regionals and they haven't been able to move up with their colleagues.

A few people here have mentioned there's no upside to TS pilots coming in. I know it's been mentioned before but there would only be a very minimal effect on your number, and likely only to some at the very bottom.

I have absolutely no idea how this is all going to work, if it does, but what about the strengths of our contract that could end up on the property? From what I know our reserve rules are a bit better, and our initial pay is quite a bit better. What about the chance that, as a guy in his first few years at AC, loses a few months worth of seniority but gets a 20k raise? Is that enough of an offset?

Anyways this is just pissing in the wind. Just trying to lend some positivity. We have no idea how the lists will be constructed, how long things will be fenced, if it even goes through, and the fact that probably 1000 guys between both of us will be out of work till winter at least.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

DanWEC wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:11 am
I have absolutely no idea how this is all going to work, if it does, but what about the strengths of our contract that could end up on the property? From what I know our reserve rules are a bit better, and our initial pay is quite a bit better. What about the chance that, as a guy in his first few years at AC, loses a few months worth of seniority but gets a 20k raise? Is that enough of an offset?
The worst economic event in history affecting commercial passenger airlines and you believe that there are gains to be made in pilot WAWCON?

I would start brushing up on the mechanics of CCAA and the effect on organized labour and the CBA. Many of the AC pilots already know the drill.
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Sharklasers
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Sharklasers »

DanWEC wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:11 am That's good to hear. Most guys I've met, and friends that have had intake to AC are great. I actually have some faith in the selection process- I know a couple of real treats at regionals and they haven't been able to move up with their colleagues.

A few people here have mentioned there's no upside to TS pilots coming in. I know it's been mentioned before but there would only be a very minimal effect on your number, and likely only to some at the very bottom.

I have absolutely no idea how this is all going to work, if it does, but what about the strengths of our contract that could end up on the property? From what I know our reserve rules are a bit better, and our initial pay is quite a bit better. What about the chance that, as a guy in his first few years at AC, loses a few months worth of seniority but gets a 20k raise? Is that enough of an offset?

Anyways this is just pissing in the wind. Just trying to lend some positivity. We have no idea how the lists will be constructed, how long things will be fenced, if it even goes through, and the fact that probably 1000 guys between both of us will be out of work till winter at least.

God willing these are questions that will never be answered. With the way 2020 has been going we sure could use one in the win column right now.
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ddiggler
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by ddiggler »

Good day to all,

I have been reading this thread with mixed emotions. I have been at AC for 4.5 years and was at Jazz for almost 9. In all, it took me 15 years to make it at a Mainline operation + engineering degree. Liked Jazz ... and really like my current job. I work with fantastic people. They all wanted to be there. With things going the way they are, I will probably loose my left seat and maybe my job for a short while.

There is not a week that passed when I was at Jazz not thinking of going somewhere with bigger equipment and flying to Europe or the Caribbean. Buddies bragged in a friendly way about quick upgrades and great schedules of the 7-8 slow months at AT. I was told so many times I missed the boat and to just assume my choices.

It wasn’t possible for me, wife and kids..timing and my assumption of seasonal charter flying to go to AT. Guys with seniority at AT had an amazing run at it. For more than a decade had great balance of lifestyle and pay.

The acquisition probably going forward, layoffs and leisure flying at a halt demonstrates the value of seniority in the integration of such different operations. I agree with Sharklasers posts.

We need one list to get the most benefits to the pilot groups even if this moves to separate operations.
Why not just go botl, like everybody did for two decades, you guys would be the heroes and get the moon for it. Negotiate fences for position/pay/flying for 4 years and just blend in after. Hell, don’t give me the excuse of the 20 year guy...he already had 20 years of awesome. Times will be different...probably more productive...it will take a bit of time to get everybody back flying and you’ll all be doing what you like in the order you already are in anyway.

I think it’s the way to go. Everybody at AC is waiting for his turn to better equipment. Slotting in a group of over-staffed seasonal operation is just not right. We are all in line and took a chance to be bottom at one point.
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172cptn
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 172cptn »

tailgunner wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 8:53 am Yes,
I think I finally saw him in the May class.
I also cross checked his current position, and quickly called a few Captains that I know he worked with.
I will leave their responses hidden.
If he wants to leave, then he should just go. He’s obviously not happy where he currently is.
His flight bag must be pretty full of stickers though.
He left out the fact that he obviously wasn’t happy at AT at one point as well, cause he seems to have left there as well.
Cheers.
Wow great job Sherlock 🕵️‍♂️

You really have nothing better to do during this quarantine period then to call up some colleagues that he recently flew with and ask them about some anonymous poster on Avcanada?! Good thing you cross checked, great CRM 👍

Surely you can find something more productive during this time like watching Pornhub or shaving your ball sack then to get someone to look up the years of service and the equipment that the 5th pilot from the top of the April retirement bulletin flew, just to show that they work for AC... 🙄
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DanWEC
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by DanWEC »

rudder wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:35 am The worst economic event in history affecting commercial passenger airlines and you believe that there are gains to be made in pilot WAWCON?

I would start brushing up on the mechanics of CCAA and the effect on organized labour and the CBA. Many of the AC pilots already know the drill.
I've never been through a merger or been in arbitration, so maybe you can clarify some thoughts I have on my position.

We've been under the impression that after the purchase was concluded, that it would be entirely BAU for us for a year at least as things got hashed out.

I've wondered how that can be allowed since it contradicts AC's CBA. I'm assuming it could be a temporary allowance?

I know this covidpocolypse with have lasting effects. Likely the worst part of my career since I started just past 9/11.
But will the environment for the negotiation be in a different frame, a year from now?
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

Kapitanov wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 8:45 am On another note, May 2nd passed, which means Transport Canada (should) has made its recommendation to Minister Garneau. I don't think the info was supposed to go public, and obviously it didn't. BUT, Air Canada CEO and CFO will host a conference call and a webcast tomorrow on May 4th, 2020 at 08:30 ET to announce Air Canada's first quarter 2020 financial results.

Talk about good timing! My guess, tomorrow might be a turning point about the outcome of this transaction. Investors want to know what's the plan and what's really gonna happen with the deal and now that AC is aware of the decision of TC I guess, that conference call could be the perfect occasion to announce big news to the market. There is also a webcast the next day for AC employees only.

Links to the webcast on the AC investor relations page: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... tions.html

Anyhow, stay tuned tomorrow!
If AC doesn’t deal with the Transat transaction during their presentation, someone will ask. There is a good chance the answer will be evasive though. My expectation is continued silence on the subject as AC’s options are still being mulled.

The conference call the next day is to explain to employees the fall out of what will be announced tomorrow. Probably thousands of job losses. I doubt the Transat transaction will be on many AC employee minds. I’m thinking tomorrow there will be thousands of AC employees who will suddenly be wondering how they will feed their family. The last thing they will want to have rubbed in their wound is that they will have to compete with employees from a different company to be recalled.

So for a couple of reasons your thirst for vision on the transaction may not be quenched.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

DanWEC wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 3:30 pm
rudder wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:35 am The worst economic event in history affecting commercial passenger airlines and you believe that there are gains to be made in pilot WAWCON?

I would start brushing up on the mechanics of CCAA and the effect on organized labour and the CBA. Many of the AC pilots already know the drill.
I've never been through a merger or been in arbitration, so maybe you can clarify some thoughts I have on my position.

We've been under the impression that after the purchase was concluded, that it would be entirely BAU for us for a year at least as things got hashed out.

I've wondered how that can be allowed since it contradicts AC's CBA. I'm assuming it could be a temporary allowance?

I know this covidpocolypse with have lasting effects. Likely the worst part of my career since I started just past 9/11.
But will the environment for the negotiation be in a different frame, a year from now?
It would have been BAU. Now AC will need to reduce Rouge to stay within the CBA let alone Transat. If they go ahead with the purchase then the shrinkage of Rouge/Transat will have to be substantial unless they merge Transat, or part of it, into mainline. We will have a better idea tomorrow, when AC reveals the new fleet plan, how much CBA space AC has left for a leisure carrier.

During AC’s purchase of Canadian, AC did violate ACPA’s scope with F28’s. It cost them a pile of $. To be having work done outside the CBA while laying off your own employees is a great way to start a labour war. I doubt it.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

DanWEC wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 3:30 pm
rudder wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:35 am The worst economic event in history affecting commercial passenger airlines and you believe that there are gains to be made in pilot WAWCON?

I would start brushing up on the mechanics of CCAA and the effect on organized labour and the CBA. Many of the AC pilots already know the drill.
I've never been through a merger or been in arbitration, so maybe you can clarify some thoughts I have on my position.

We've been under the impression that after the purchase was concluded, that it would be entirely BAU for us for a year at least as things got hashed out.

I've wondered how that can be allowed since it contradicts AC's CBA. I'm assuming it could be a temporary allowance?

I know this covidpocolypse with have lasting effects. Likely the worst part of my career since I started just past 9/11.
But will the environment for the negotiation be in a different frame, a year from now?
Based on the news today from AC, it seems that CR understands the severity of the demand destruction of the COVID phenomena and will take actions necessary to (hopefully) avoid CCAA for AC. And he points out that recovery to 2019 capacity is not expected for 3 more years.

With AC parking 1/3rd of the fleet, I have no idea where the TRZ transaction fits. There will be no winners vs losers in the COVID era of aviation. Just losers. Everybody is simply waiting for their own piece of the bad news.

If there is someone out there that can explain to me how a company shrinking by 33% would justify simultaneously acquiring another company in the same business, I am all ears. Maybe it is politics rather than common sense.

If the transaction goes through, I doubt there will be any opportunity within the next 12-24 months to make gains in the CBA. There may still be affected pilots on layoff in 24 months.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

rudder wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 5:32 pm
There may still be affected pilots on layoff in 24 months.
The merger comes with consolidation. A merger now likely means longer wait times for recall.

So the Transaction is not good for consumers. Not good for employees. Might be good for shareholders assuming the expenditure doesn’t lead to CCAA. The only winners would be Transat shareholders.
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Kaykay
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Kaykay »

The only thing for certain is that it’s a messy situation.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

Fanblade wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 5:20 pm We will have a better idea tomorrow, when AC reveals the new fleet plan, how much CBA space AC has left for a leisure carrier.
E190s, 319s, 767s are all gone. ALL gone.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Boeing pulled the plug on the Embraer purchase. From Wikipedia
Boeing terminated the planned joint ventures on April 24, 2020, saying that Embraer did not satisfy the conditions established in their agreement.[33] Industry analysts said that the $4.2 billion deal became unbalanced as Embraer's market value fell to less than $1.1 billion as air travel demand dropped as a result of the impact of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic on aviation.[34][35] Industry analysts speculated that Boeing may have also cancelled the deal because it had recently been awarded a U.S. government pandemic relief loan, and wanted to avoid making the impression that funds intended to support U.S. jobs were instead used to secure a deal with a Brazilian firm.[36]

Embraer has rejected Boeing's reasons for the termination of the deal and said the company "has manufactured false claims as a pretext to seek to avoid its commitments" because of its financial condition after the 737 MAX groundings and "other business and reputational problems." [37] Embraer threatened to pursue "all remedies against Boeing for the damages incurred."[37] The agreement had a termination fee of $75 million according to a copy of the merger agreement filed to U.S. authorities.[38] Industry analysts also believe that Embraer may file suit to recover the $100-120 million it spent separating its commercial and military units, and claim lost business opportunities as orders for new jets were slow while customers were waiting for the deal to close.
Is this the kind of bickering we may see in the near future ? AC is seeking government aid, from both the Federal government and the Quebec government. Can government aid money be used to buy a competitor ? What will the public perception be ?
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sun May 03, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
airboy1
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by airboy1 »

Knowing AC hasnt excluded a330 or A321NEOs for retirement, looks like merger will go ahead. Do we know how long it will take to integrate the seniority list? Would like to return to work!
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by altiplano »

AC doesn't have any 321neos.

330-300s (not 200s) are Atlantic money makers.

Doesn't mean a thing.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Fanblade »

airboy1 wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 8:03 pm Knowing AC hasnt excluded a330 or A321NEOs for retirement, looks like merger will go ahead. Do we know how long it will take to integrate the seniority list? Would like to return to work!
The merger will go ahead because of fleet composition?????????

Really? Like right now? In today’s reality? AC parks 1/3 of their fleet due to over capacity and you think.......yeah never mind.

Air Canada doesn’t own or have an order for 320NEO’s. The 767 was always going to be the first widebody on the chopping block. The 190 and 319 were only around because of the 737 grounding.

These are not a surprise.

Next will be the 330/777 if cuts get deeper. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a few parked or very limited utilization. As a matter of fact reduced 777 utilization is probably a guarantee.
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Last edited by Fanblade on Sun May 03, 2020 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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