Air Transat Ferry flights

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altiplano
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by altiplano »

This sounds like it's just fins getting sent back. Leases getting returned all around the world. Clearly lease companies, manufacturers, etc have means to move aircraft, doesn't have to be the ex-operator's pilots doing it.
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telex
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by telex »

ahramin wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:17 pm
telex wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:57 pm
ahramin wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:55 pm
If it was not under the OC, how did they get into RVSM airspace? There's so little traffic out there today, maybe they just phoned each FIR and got approval? What about MNPS?
Maybe I missed the requirement to operate under AT OC for RVSM?

An operator shall ensure that aeroplanes operated in RVSM airspace are equipped with:
Two independent altitude measurement systems;
An altitude alerting system;
An automatic altitude control system; and
A secondary surveillance radar (SSR) transponder with altitude reporting system that can be connected to the altitude measurement system in use for altitude keeping. (IR-OPS SPA.RVSM.110, EU-OPS 1.872)
Is it an ops spec? "An operator" means you need an OC no?
Ferry flight... Is it a commercial flight?
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ahramin
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by ahramin »

My guess is that the aircraft is on a ferry flight and does not require an OC.

Commercial flight or not though, doesn't RVSM require an ops spec? If so, then the aircraft would need to be on an OC or would need permission to operate in RVSM airspace.
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telex
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by telex »

Fly the Blue Spruce routes.

Stay out of RVSM.

What's the problem?
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ahramin
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by ahramin »

Not a problem, but that's not what the aircraft did. It was at 370 the entire flight.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

boeingboy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:57 pm
In any case - the odds that it was operated by Air Canada are next to impossible seeing as how the have no legal control over any AT assets yet.
Except that no one ever wrote that "Air Canada" had operated these ferry flights. Not on this thread anyway.

Some sources told me they were Air Canada pilots......not the same statement.
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Thu May 14, 2020 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Any aircraft in the air has an Operator. That is never vague and is never a shared responsibility.

Nav Canada is billing an operator. These flights were insured by an operator.

The test used by the Canadian Transportation Agency is who has "operational control" of the aircraft.
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by TFTMB heavy »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:54 am
Any aircraft in the air has an Operator. That is never vague and is never a shared responsibility.

Nav Canada is billing an operator. These flights were insured by an operator.

The test used by the Canadian Transportation Agency is who has "operational control" of the aircraft.
Did you ask Air Transat?
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:36 am

Did you ask Air Transat?
I didn't. But considering that this was brought to my attention by people in the Union.......
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ahramin
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by ahramin »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:54 am
Any aircraft in the air has an Operator. That is never vague and is never a shared responsibility.

Nav Canada is billing an operator. These flights were insured by an operator.

The test used by the Canadian Transportation Agency is who has "operational control" of the aircraft.
But in the case of a ferry flight, do CTA rules apply? If Transat signs over operational control back to the owner of the aircraft, aren't they able to reposition their aircraft as a private flight? The problem I see here is that if the owner is not a Canadian entity, they would not be able to take control of a Canadian registered aircraft that is physically in Canada would they?
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tbaylx
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by tbaylx »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:32 am
boeingboy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:57 pm
In any case - the odds that it was operated by Air Canada are next to impossible seeing as how the have no legal control over any AT assets yet.
Except that no one ever wrote that "Air Canada" had operated these ferry flights. Not on this thread anyway.

Some sources told me they were Air Canada pilots......not the same statement.
They were contract pilots ferrying an aircraft. What does it matter where they work as a day job? They may not even be canadian depending on who the organization was that flew it and any waivers they obtained
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altiplano
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by altiplano »

International equipment leases are governed by treaty. Ships and aircraft have additional treaties recognizing their movability.

You can pick it all apart, but the bottom line is the lessor has a right to recover, control, and relocate their property using reasonable means. Transat didn't have to sign over anything if a term of the lease wasn't met. I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it's going back... either that or Transat cancelled the leases and you just haven't heard yet.

Their are various modalities of registration/deregistration. It doesn't all end up on the internet immediately I'm sure.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by altiplano »

...
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jetpilot
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by jetpilot »

altiplano wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:41 am
International equipment leases are governed by treaty. Ships and aircraft have additional treaties recognizing their movability.

You can pick it all apart, but the bottom line is the lessor has a right to recover, control, and relocate their property using reasonable means. Transat didn't have to sign over anything if a term of the lease wasn't met. I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it's going back... either that or Transat cancelled the leases and you just haven't heard yet.

Their are various modalities of registration/deregistration. It doesn't all end up on the internet immediately I'm sure.
It is just a winter lease that got stock with covid-19 in this case because of the limited resources they used a ferry company .
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altiplano
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by altiplano »

jetpilot wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:39 am
altiplano wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:41 am
International equipment leases are governed by treaty. Ships and aircraft have additional treaties recognizing their movability.

You can pick it all apart, but the bottom line is the lessor has a right to recover, control, and relocate their property using reasonable means. Transat didn't have to sign over anything if a term of the lease wasn't met. I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it's going back... either that or Transat cancelled the leases and you just haven't heard yet.

Their are various modalities of registration/deregistration. It doesn't all end up on the internet immediately I'm sure.
It is just a winter lease that got stock with covid-19 in this case because of the limited resources they used a ferry company .
There you go...
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FL320
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by FL320 »

Gilles,

Maybe here is the answer to your question:
https://osmaviation.com/ferry-flights/ ... 20Aviation
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Wow, who would have thought bringing a 321 to Europe is akin to a NASA space launch.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

FL320 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:28 pm
Gilles,

Maybe here is the answer to your question:
https://osmaviation.com/ferry-flights/ ... 20Aviation
Our collective agreement says only Air Transat pilots can fly Air Transat aircraft.

Our Ops Manual says the same.

Having this company do these ferry flights would require an LOU with our Union and a Waiver from Transport Canada. I can only assume they had both.....
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Dry Guy
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Dry Guy »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:35 pm
Wow, who would have thought bringing a 321 to Europe is akin to a NASA space launch.
The funny part was when the pilots got to their hotel room it was closed. So typical of companies to put so much effort into checking, confirming, and tracking things for the airplane but not giving a crap about what happens to the pilots after they land. Eventually I started calling hotels myself to confirm my room and to make sure I could check-in after hours and if I couldn't I wouldn't go.
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pelmet
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by pelmet »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:13 pm
FL320 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:28 pm
Gilles,

Maybe here is the answer to your question:
https://osmaviation.com/ferry-flights/ ... 20Aviation
Our collective agreement says only Air Transat pilots can fly Air Transat aircraft.

Our Ops Manual says the same.

Having this company do these ferry flights would require an LOU with our Union and a Waiver from Transport Canada. I can only assume they had both.....
According to the website......"The two highly experienced Canadian pilots, contracted by OSM for the task at hand, are well-versed in ferry-flights, cross-atlantic flights and other intercontinental operations."

Maybe the two pilots were Air Transat pilots and therefore, depending on the precise wording of the contract...the contract was followed.
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drone_driver24
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by drone_driver24 »

Gilles,

who flew C-GTQF this week? I saw a IG post with it leaving the hangar.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

I do not know but unlike those two ferry flights to Europe, which flew under their registration, this one flew with a TS flight number. Over 200 of us were called back to work.
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drone_driver24
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Re: Air Transat Ferry flights

Post by drone_driver24 »

That's great news. I was talking to another A330 captain, via email, and he had been recalled as well.

Take care.
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