Hiring

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Soyer
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Hiring

#1 Post by Soyer » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:11 pm

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Cavalier44
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Re: Hiring

#2 Post by Cavalier44 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:28 pm

Any current Flair pilots care to post the WAWCON for curiosity’s sake? Specifically as it relates to Direct Entry Captains. I read in a previous Flair thread that starting pay for Captains was 93k/yr, is this still the case? It seems low when you consider that Sunwing is paying their first year Captains ~106k/yr, and have basically identical experience requirements for DEC positions.
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tbaylx
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Re: Hiring

#3 Post by tbaylx » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:28 pm

http://www.unifor2002.org/Unit-Directory/Flair-Airlines

As of 2019 its $114 an hour, or about $110K/year based on min credit for year 1 capt
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pacman007
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Re: Hiring

#4 Post by pacman007 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:10 pm

thats absolutely embarrassing! Capt for 114k and no future....come on guys/gals....wake up!
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Wacko
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Re: Hiring

#5 Post by Wacko » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:24 pm

Ok, now I'm curious...

Just looked through the collective... salaries aside

1. You can be scheduled for 18 days a month..how many are you actually scheduled?
2. What's a typical day for a crew
3. What kind of schedule could be expected
4. Do they actually move your days off around within the month? (Mind you AC does this with grey days as well)
5. Any "accounting" issues with paychecks?

TIA
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altiplano
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Re: Hiring

#6 Post by altiplano » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:04 am

Do they actually move your days off around within the month? (Mind you AC does this with grey days as well)
AC can't move your days off... pay protection for cancelled or lost flying has to fall with in a window based on the original flying and when it's lost.
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goleafsgo
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Re: Hiring

#7 Post by goleafsgo » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Can you commute from a city that flair services (YWG)
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cloak
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Re: Hiring

#8 Post by cloak » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:25 pm

pacman007 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:10 pm
thats absolutely embarrassing! Capt for 114k and no future....come on guys/gals....wake up!
And how much is not embarrassing, and based on what comparison?
Sunwing, Transat, Swoop are all similar.
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telex
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Re: Hiring

#9 Post by telex » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:14 pm

pacman007 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:10 pm
thats absolutely embarrassing! Capt for 114k and no future....come on guys/gals....wake up!
Put up a dollar value you consider acceptable.

If you know what the job is not worth, surely you know what it is worth.
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Soyer
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Re: Hiring

#10 Post by Soyer » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:54 am

1. You can be scheduled for 18 days a month..how many are you actually scheduled?

It is a max of 18 days. By the contract they can sked you to a max of 85 hours. So if you hit 85 hours in 16 days you will get the other other 15 or 14 days as GDO's. There are NO grey days! This is quite different from Sunwing etc. Also very achievable with the scheduling.

2. What's a typical day for a crew

Crew sked attempts to build longer, high credit days and is usually successful. For YYZ and YEG bases 2 day pairings are standard. For other, smaller bases, the pairings are usually mutiday. Most days earn about 6 hours credit.

3. What kind of schedule could be expected
4. Do they actually move your days off around within the month? (Mind you AC does this with grey days as well)

No. Once the schedule is published it is set. You can work on GDOs and be paid double time.

5. Any "accounting" issues with paychecks?

No. Though as they implement the new contract they have had issues calculating OT and have not paid some of it. But it is logged and will be paid. Pay deposites have never been late.
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Donald
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Re: Hiring

#11 Post by Donald » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:54 pm

Given that management recently demanded a 30% pay cut from their F/A's, and they've responded with a strike/lockout scenario, I'm not sure it's a great company to be going to.
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Soyer
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Re: Hiring

#12 Post by Soyer » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:31 pm

Or, given that they did NOT ask for a 30% pay decrease. Instead they want to hire new FA's on a scale that matches, Swoop, Rouge etc. Current FA's keep there wages - wages that were based on a charter company years ago.
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Cavalier44
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Re: Hiring

#13 Post by Cavalier44 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:42 am

Soyer wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:31 pm
Or, given that they did NOT ask for a 30% pay decrease. Instead they want to hire new FA's on a scale that matches, Swoop, Rouge etc. Current FA's keep there wages - wages that were based on a charter company years ago.
So in essence this means the FAs are being asked to accept a B-Scale for new hires based on Swoop/Rouge rates which is 30% lower than the current pay scale? Not surprised the Flair FAs are threatening to strike.

It seems like as per the Collective Agreement, Flair pilots are seeing a substantial raise for 2018-2019. Improving working conditions for the pilot group while asking for concessions from the FAs is bound to cause some hard feelings - I’m not seeing the logic behind this.
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cloak
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Re: Hiring

#14 Post by cloak » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:59 am

It's called "market forces" and paying each employee group based on the demand and industry standards. Other airlines do it too when their pay creeps up, even Air Canada! Instead of giving everyone a pay-cut, they introduce a "market standard" rate for new hires. That is completely reasonable, otherwise the company goes bankrupt paying the inflated wages. It is a financial disadvantage to have much higher costs to competitors. Even if these groups get unionized and pay thousands in dues, the best they can hope for is "industry standard" wages comparable with competitors. Surely you can understand that. It could be viewed as problematic when senior staff within the same employee group negotiate a raise for themselves, while lowering the pay for new hires!
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Soyer
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Re: Hiring

#15 Post by Soyer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:35 am

Cavalier44 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:42 am
Soyer wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:31 pm
Or, given that they did NOT ask for a 30% pay decrease. Instead they want to hire new FA's on a scale that matches, Swoop, Rouge etc. Current FA's keep there wages - wages that were based on a charter company years ago.
So in essence this means the FAs are being asked to accept a B-Scale for new hires based on Swoop/Rouge rates which is 30% lower than the current pay scale? Not surprised the Flair FAs are threatening to strike.

It seems like as per the Collective Agreement, Flair pilots are seeing a substantial raise for 2018-2019. Improving working conditions for the pilot group while asking for concessions from the FAs is bound to cause some hard feelings - I’m not seeing the logic behind this.
I think the logic is very straightforward. The current FA wages were implemented when the company was private charter. As it was bought out and then morphed into a low cost sked airline that payscale is not competitive. Those FA's who started then and are still here will keep their current scale and will become IFD's quickly as the company grows. At the same time their working conditions will improve greatly as their contract follows the work rules that the pilots have.

In any case, Flair is contacting pilots for interviews in early December.
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Cavalier44
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Re: Hiring

#16 Post by Cavalier44 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:54 pm

cloak wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:59 am
It's called "market forces" and paying each employee group based on the demand and industry standards. Other airlines do it too when their pay creeps up, even Air Canada! Instead of giving everyone a pay-cut, they introduce a "market standard" rate for new hires. That is completely reasonable, otherwise the company goes bankrupt paying the inflated wages. It is a financial disadvantage to have much higher costs to competitors. Even if these groups get unionized and pay thousands in dues, the best they can hope for is "industry standard" wages comparable with competitors. Surely you can understand that. It could be viewed as problematic when senior staff within the same employee group negotiate a raise for themselves, while lowering the pay for new hires!
This is the same logic that has been used to justify the race to the bottom in this industry for years. Obviously the flight attendant wages were financially viable before, but all it takes is another company to come along offering bottom of the barrel salaries and all of a sudden it’s a “financial disadvantage” for the company to pay their new hires the same thing that their colleagues would’ve been earning for years before.

You don’t have to look far to see examples of this, all the B-Scale Jazz FOs living in cities like YYZ and YVR on ~36k/year would like to have a word with you I’m sure. Their pilot group was sold a pay cut in the pursuit of “industry standard” and they’ll be living with the consequences of that decision for years to come.

As employees in the aviation industry in this country, whether pilots or flight attendants, we’ve been convinced of this line of thinking to our own detriment. I’d use caution in blindly endorsing the company slashing these “inflated wages” as you call them - maybe it will be your pilot group on the chopping block next and then you won’t feel so comfortable with it.
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cloak
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Re: Hiring

#17 Post by cloak » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Cavalier44 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:54 pm
... all the B-Scale Jazz FOs living in cities like YYZ and YVR on ~36k/year would like to have a word with you I’m sure. Their pilot group was sold a pay cut in the pursuit of “industry standard” and they’ll be living with the consequences of that decision for years to come...
They should have a word with their union that gave them the B scale! Especially since pilots are under favourable market forces.
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Re: Hiring

#18 Post by Liftdump » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:32 pm

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Soyer
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Re: Hiring

#19 Post by Soyer » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:38 am

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homesick
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Re: Hiring

#20 Post by homesick » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:39 am

Got an interview coming up in a few days. Any info on what to expect for a DEC?

TIA.
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iNCApacitated
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Re: Hiring

#21 Post by iNCApacitated » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:33 am

How flexible are the schedulers ?

Do you work a staggered (3 on/3 off) type of roster or more of a 10 days on/10 days off pattern ?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Hiring

#22 Post by opsman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:34 am

Has anyone heard back after their interview yet?
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Soyer
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Re: Hiring

#23 Post by Soyer » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:51 am

We bid for schedules in the traditional way so there is no pattern. YOu are guaranteed 12 days off a month and a max schedule of 85 hours. So if you hit 85 hours in 15-16 days you will have13-15 days off. No grey days etc - they are off days. SO you can request specific days off, specific flight etc as in any bidding system.
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Topoff
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Re: Hiring

#24 Post by Topoff » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:51 am

What are the flight benefits for employees / pilots?
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Re: Hiring

#25 Post by goleafsgo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:47 pm

goleafsgo wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:48 pm
Can you commute from a city that flair services (YWG)
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