Your job to foreigners?

This forum has been developed to discuss Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore, Rudder Bug

Post Reply
Message
Author
RichAir
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:55 am
Location: FBO

Your job to foreigners?

#1 Post by RichAir » Sat May 02, 2015 1:35 pm

Many seasonal pilot positions are now filled by temporary foreign workers. Many requests were made in Helicopter industry, leisure travel industry and crop dusting industry. Rationale is there is no qualified canadian pilots available or willing to take the position. We all know it is not true but Services Canada has no expertise on the matter and abuse of the TFW is going on. It could also spread to float plane operations or fire suppression (JB Air in The Pas put a request in 2013).

We need to stand together and stop the abuse.

Join our Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/815822155174969/

Canadian aircraft flown by canadian pilots
---------- ADS -----------
  

Chuck Finley
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:01 am

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#2 Post by Chuck Finley » Sat May 02, 2015 2:12 pm

Also shows you how little respect those foreign pilots have for us Canadians. They will come here and take our jobs knowing full well what the situation is and taking less paying job as well or even cheating their logs (alledgedly)

Anybody who has flown into Fort Nelson in the past 5 years knows what I'm talking about!!

"Heeeeeeeeeeey Mate!!!"
---------- ADS -----------
  

phillyfan
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#3 Post by phillyfan » Sun May 03, 2015 4:00 pm

It works both ways. I know plenty of Canadian pilots who work in other countries. I have even done it myself. I say if they are working legally, are qualified and are doing the job, welcome to Canada!!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#4 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Sun May 03, 2015 8:32 pm

An LMIA (used to be called an LMO) is an authorization the Government of Canada gives to a Canadian employer to import a foreign worker after said employer has stated that he was unable to find or train a qualified Canadian for the job.

The problem that those claims made by the Canadian employer are most often without merit and dishonest.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Caracrane
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:26 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#5 Post by Caracrane » Thu May 07, 2015 12:43 pm

Try it in France Philly.
---------- ADS -----------
  

the_doc
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#6 Post by the_doc » Thu May 07, 2015 3:52 pm

Chuck,
Just because someone has a foreign accent doesn't mean they are a TFW out to steal jobs from Canadians. I'm Australian, a pilot and work in Canada. I applied for a work visa (which anyone under 30 in Australia can obtain) came over here with no job, spent large amounts of money and time converting my foreign license to a Canadian. Applied for jobs, got rejected from some and was successful with others. I've even turned down one job because the conditions they were offering were appaulling! My resume had no mention of the fact I was Australian (I did although mention my employment history's which did include Australian jobs). Ive worked minimum wage (non - flying) jobs in Canada between seasonal flying jobs. I've been over here for almost 18months and about to start the process of applying for permanent residency. I take huge offence to the fact that you accuse me of having little respect for Canadians!!

I fully agree with you that what companies like sunwing are doing are not right - hiring people who have never set foot in Canada, never contributed to the economy etc over Canadians to save money. But not everyone who you hear on the radio is like that!

I just hope in 20 years time (if my application for permanent residency is successful) I still don't get accused of disrespecting Canadians because I talk differently.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TomBradley
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:36 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#7 Post by TomBradley » Fri May 08, 2015 10:21 am

I am a Kiwi pilot here in Canada, I speak with a strong New Zealand accent. My wife is Canadian, and our child is Canadian. I am a Permanent Resident of Canada, soon to apply for my Citizenship.

Comments from Chuck like "Also shows you how little respect those foreign pilots have for us Canadians" Would you mind telling me when I have disrespected you?

I like many other "foreigners" moved to Canada, after flying career overseas. I moved here for my family, not to come here and disrespect Canadian pilots. I had to start from the beginning, and find flying work like so many others. It was no walk in the park, and still isn't.

As for Sunwing, I agree, it is unfair that pilots who haven't contributed anything to Canada can come in, fly a stint here, then go back. But to group all "foreign pilots" in that same group, then take the piss out of how we talk, is one step too far. If you every go fly overseas, or if you have done, I hope other pilots have treated you with more respect.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#8 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Fri May 08, 2015 11:12 am

Guys, sorry if you feel targeted but there a many LMO applications for TFW helicopter pilots who come here in the summer to take Canadian jobs, and it seems most of these come from Australia and New Zealand.

I am myself an immigrant from Haiti and speak with an accent.......
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Fri May 08, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TG
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:32 am
Location: Around

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#9 Post by TG » Fri May 08, 2015 12:52 pm

Caracrane wrote:Try it in France Philly.
Try this in UAE Caracrane.
---------- ADS -----------
  

the_doc
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#10 Post by the_doc » Fri May 08, 2015 4:06 pm

Gilles I fully understand the current situation hence why I support the changes that need to be made. I'm facing the same challenges as the rest of the pilot population in Canada. It's just annoys me when people like chuck make assumptions and generalisations that all pilots with Australian/New Zealand and other foreign accents must be temporary foreign workers stealing jobs. I know a lot are and are just over here for 6 months then will leave and the only reason they are allowed to work in the country is because the company chose them over someone else. All I'm saying is that there are a few of us who are either permanent residents/citizens or have non - sponsored working visa's (hence are competing with other applicants) and are looking at getting permanent residency who are unfairly targeted and stereotyped by just a few radio calls.

The attitude of 'that's an (insert accent here) voice therefore they must be a TFW being sponsored by the company and stealing jobs' without even meeting the person isn't fair. Its ike being presumed guilty until you prove your innocence.
---------- ADS -----------
  

phillyfan
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#11 Post by phillyfan » Sat May 09, 2015 3:41 pm

First of all, I have no desire to fly in France. I doubt they have a floatplane operation? Secondly, I won't join a Facebook page for Bigots. Everybody in Canada came from somewhere else at some point. You don't have a supreme right to be employed because you say "Eh"
In fact I would bet I subsidized some of your licences via pilot puppy mill colleges, so that you could try and steal my job?
---------- ADS -----------
  

RichAir
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:55 am
Location: FBO

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#12 Post by RichAir » Mon May 11, 2015 6:38 am

Just to make sure everybody understand what is the problem we try to solve here, temporary foreign workers come to Canada every year, to fill pilot positions. Some canadian carriers apply for use of TFW pretending no one meets their requirements in Canada. Aviation being a technical industry, service Canada believe them and allow them to bring TFW. Those TFW are employed in Canada for a short period of them and do not contribute to our economy other than paying taxes on a few goods and at restaurant. They pay their income taxes, mortgage, car, cottage, etc. back in their country.

The largest abuser of this program is Sunwing. They do send crews to Europe for the summer on wet leased aircrafts and with some agreements but they still hold the prize for the largest abuser. While TFW come in Canada for them, some pilots are idling on EI. Don't you think helicopter pilots with the low season in the winter wouldn't like to fly for Sunwing (if holding the proper licence) or fire suppression pilots, or dropzone pilots, or bird dogs.

Second largest abuser is found in the helicopter industry. It is a growing cancer.

Third is in crop dusting industry.

It is not a fight against pilots who want to move to Canada. A large portion of the canadian pilots is from overseas.

If you have doubts on it, please come on the Facebook page and just read the PDF documents on LMO applications. You will see what I mean by abuse.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/815822155174969/

Canadian Aircraft flown by Canadian Pilots
---------- ADS -----------
  

RichAir
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:55 am
Location: FBO

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#13 Post by RichAir » Thu May 14, 2015 6:59 am

https://secure.avaaz.org/fr/petition/Ca ... lots/?copy

Here's a link to a petition against the abuse of the TFWP. Please sign and share.

Canadian Aircraft Flown by Canadian Pilots
---------- ADS -----------
  

CropDuster
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:12 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#14 Post by CropDuster » Sat May 16, 2015 6:21 pm

It is actually true Canadian pilots aren't willing to take these positions. Canadian pilots have demonstrated a lack of work ethic and poor attitude. Proof of my argument steams that if you need to be on here complaining about this issue, you are the issue.
---------- ADS -----------
  

timel
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#15 Post by timel » Sun May 17, 2015 9:07 pm

CropDuster wrote:It is actually true Canadian pilots aren't willing to take these positions. Canadian pilots have demonstrated a lack of work ethic and poor attitude. Proof of my argument steams that if you need to be on here complaining about this issue, you are the issue.
Not true.

There are Canadian pilots who would be willing to take on those jobs and go through the training. And like everywhere you select candidates that fit the jobs.

You guys have to work on advertising battlefords airspray and make some noise about jobs being available. If you keep on hidding those jobs, no one will apply, and no candidates will be available when needed.

I did spraying for 3 seasons on pa25 and c188 on a duster, I was willing to make a career and take the upgrade training 3 years ago with battlefords, but there was no jobs advertised and available on the market because tfw were having them, so I gave up.

I bet if you advertise your jobs on avcanada, you get known in training centers and in careers college programs, you'll start getting interest.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Reload Return
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#16 Post by Reload Return » Sun May 17, 2015 9:20 pm

Actually Richie Rich I leave almost half what I earn in Canada IN Canada in the form of TAX.
As a side note I actually work with a half dozen Canadian pilots every fire season in Australia and consider every one of them friends and look forward to seeing them each year.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Reload Return
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#17 Post by Reload Return » Sun May 17, 2015 9:34 pm

Timel just proved Cropduster is not far from the mark.
I can assure you Timel TFW are not filling your Pawnee or Sagwagon seats. Gotta crawl before you walk.
---------- ADS -----------
  

timel
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#18 Post by timel » Mon May 18, 2015 9:35 am

Applications to esdc were for Air tractors and for jobs on pistons like c188.

I don't mind crawling, but if you give the 188 jobs to tfwp as well, can't crawl.

No prob with real reciprocity.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#19 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Tue May 19, 2015 4:17 am

It amazes me to see the number of pilots who seem to think that the kind of flying they do requires a set of skills no one else has and that the machine they fly is more difficult to fly than another one.
Flying a 172 is no more difficult than flying a 152.
Flying a 747 is no more difficult than flying a 737
Flying a Navajo is no more difficult than flying an Aztec
Flying a turbine is no more difficult than flying a piston.
Flying a radial is no harder than flying a flat inline.
Flying a tail dragger is no more difficult than flying a conventional gear.
Flying a retractable is no harder than flying a fixed gear.
Flying a float plane is no harder than flying a land plane.

All it takes is training to transition from one to the other and some practice.

There is no flying skill that cannot be taught to Canadian pilots.

Temporary foreign pilots should never be more than instructors.

In times of recession it takes 5000 TT to get to be Captain on a Navajo.
In times of war it takes 350 TT to be captain on a Lancaster bomber over Germany.

Learning to speak Mandarin is extremely difficult, yet there are millions of Chinese 5 year olds who speak it quite well.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Tue May 19, 2015 6:40 am, edited 7 times in total.

RichAir
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:55 am
Location: FBO

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#20 Post by RichAir » Tue May 19, 2015 6:32 am

Actually Richie Rich I leave almost half what I earn in Canada IN Canada in the form of TAX.
As a side note I actually work with a half dozen Canadian pilots every fire season in Australia and consider every one of them friends and look forward to seeing them each year.
I guess this was addressed to me. So my understanding is you are an Aussie coming temporary to Canada every year, where you pay taxes on your income. When you return to Australia, you fly with temporary Canadian workers. If this is all correct, here are a few questions:

On what program do you come working legally to Canada? Wet lease, LMO from the Canadian employer, reciprocity?

Who do you work for and who pays you in Canada?

May I get more information on how you are taxed in Canada. Is it taken at the source? Do you have to make a declaration. At the border?

Are the Canadian crop dusting planes flying in Australia and are the Australian ones flying in Canada?

Is your posting in Canada for 8 weeks. Is the one for Canadians in Australia the same lenght?

Are Canadians paying taxes in Australia as well?

How do they enter the country to work legally in Australia? What program?

Canadian operators asked for an AG training in their ad. Do Aussies receive this training or is it an equivalency?

Thank you for all the answers you can provide.
---------- ADS -----------
  

timel
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Your job to foreigners?

#21 Post by timel » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:15 pm

Same as usual...
Nobody can argue TFW program is pertinent, because it is not.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service”