cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

This forum has been developed to discuss Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore, Rudder Bug

Post Reply
Message
Author
marakii
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:59 am

cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#1 Post by marakii » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:55 pm

Which one would work better for a day vfr 703 operation? I hear the 180 can be fitted with a MOGAS and bring the fuel costs even lower.
Anyways, from the pros that ran these machines in a commercial operation, which one would they choose?

thanks
---------- ADS -----------

esp803

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#2 Post by esp803 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:18 pm

With the exception of a flight school, I have never heard of a 172 on floats (especially amphibs) operating as a 703 aircraft. I can't imagine your useful load would be much more than a couple hundred pounds with fuel for any sort of trip. Come to think of it, I can only think of a handful of amphib aircraft operating commercially in Canada, and those are all Caravans (702 and 604 don't count).

Earlier you were looking for a 206 to lease, that's a working airplane, a 172 XP is not.

E
---------- ADS -----------

PZL 1000
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:03 pm

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#3 Post by PZL 1000 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:28 am

My buddy has a C180 amphib and it has a very small payload. You need a very small pilot. Like the previous poster said forget about a C172 amphib for any passenger work..
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Duffman
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:57 am

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#4 Post by Duffman » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:00 am

What kind of work are you doing with it?

The 172 XP is great for training and maybe sightseeing with two passengers. I don't think it would be very useful for anything else. Even the work you can do with a 180 will be very limited if you're carrying a bit of gas.

There are some operators using 180's but they mostly seem to use them for camp checks and things like that. 185 or 206 is probably the way to go and if you get a 206 you better have plenty of water everywhere you go because they don't get off fast. I've only flown the non turbocharged version though.
---------- ADS -----------

esp803

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#5 Post by esp803 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:20 am

And simply forget about amphibs unless you are looking at something big. And even then... on the Van it's an additional 800lbs...

E
---------- ADS -----------

marakii
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:59 am

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#6 Post by marakii » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:56 pm

esp803 wrote:And simply forget about amphibs unless you are looking at something big. And even then... on the Van it's an additional 800lbs...

E
Thank you for all the great valid points, how do you take it to the maintenance shop on floats? if the the AME is on a land airport? I get the whole profit margin on running straight floats, much better and lighter and the whole bit.

appreciate all the true facts guys
---------- ADS -----------

phillyfan
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#7 Post by phillyfan » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:22 pm

Putting amphibs on the airplane so that you can bring it to a maintenance facility, makes me wonder about other aspects of your business plan? That and the fact you considered a C-172 on amphibs as a Commercial aircraft. Sometimes you just have to get a job working for somebody else. Generally there are very few shortcuts in this business that don't lead to death, or financial ruin.
---------- ADS -----------

marakii
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:59 am

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#8 Post by marakii » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:26 pm

phillyfan wrote:Putting amphibs on the airplane so that you can bring it to a maintenance facility, makes me wonder about other aspects of your business plan? That and the fact you considered a C-172 on amphibs as a Commercial aircraft. Sometimes you just have to get a job working for somebody else. Generally there are very few shortcuts in this business that don't lead to death, or financial ruin.

you're right, I'll quit while I'm ahead.

thanks for the heads up!
---------- ADS -----------

N181CS
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:05 am

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#9 Post by N181CS » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:53 pm

There are some 206 operators on anphibs but that is about as small as they get. There are a few 18X's but they are mostly sight seeing and training. I can't believe an AME won't come to your plane, they do for most operators out there. Lots of ways to get your straight float to and from a land airport as well.
---------- ADS -----------

SeanMountainous
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#10 Post by SeanMountainous » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:14 pm

I used to fly a 172XP amphib. It's a half tanks and two average sized guys and that's about it kind of airplane.
---------- ADS -----------

SuperchargedRS
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1353
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
Location: the stars playground

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#11 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:15 am

I've been pretty happy with my 185 amphib.

That said if you're hauling folks for hire I'd get a U206 for those rear doors, makes like much easier
---------- ADS -----------

GreenStar
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:23 am

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#12 Post by GreenStar » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:23 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:I've been pretty happy with my 185 amphib.

That said if you're hauling folks for hire I'd get a U206 for those rear doors, makes like much easier
And not much room in a Skywagon for fat sightseers.
---------- ADS -----------

SuperchargedRS
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1353
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
Location: the stars playground

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#13 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:46 am

Flying fatties isn't really the 185s mission profile.

Question for you guys, does anyone charge extra for pax over a certain weight?
---------- ADS -----------

esp803

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#14 Post by esp803 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:07 am

At Chisel air we work on a strictly Pounds per Nautical Mile charge system, with the price we want set to average weight.

Seriously though, I've only ever worked for charter operations, so they are already paying for the whole airplane. I have had clients in the past have too much stuff, and that results in a second trip at full price. Or upgrading to larger aircraft... either way it's good news for the company.

E
---------- ADS -----------

Slats
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:35 pm

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#15 Post by Slats » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:06 am

Thank you for all the great valid points, how do you take it to the maintenance shop on floats? if the the AME is on a land airport? I get
I've done it a number of ways. For regular, brief inspections you could go to the nearest suitable body of water and the engineer can work on the aircraft while it's in the water. Or if there is a boat launch nearby, you could land and taxi the aircraft onto a trailer/dolly and have it pulled out of the water. Or, failing that, you could land the aircraft at the aerodrome on a grass infield and have it picked up (and launched) on a dolly.
I never found amphibs all that enjoyable to fly, and as others have pointed out, you will take a penalty in performance that would probably not be worthwhile, unless your operation has a unique requirement for amphibs.
---------- ADS -----------

180
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:10 pm

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#16 Post by 180 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:39 pm

Google "seaplane beaching gear", select "images", and the first 4 photos show you how a straight float aircraft gets maneuvered onto dry land for maintenance.
---------- ADS -----------

LousyFisherman
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 8:32 am
Location: CFX2
Contact:

Re: cessna 180 vs 172XP floatplane amphibian?

#17 Post by LousyFisherman » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:25 am

C150. straight floats 400lb useful
C172. straight floats 560lb useful
C172XP. amphibs 560lb useful
C172XP. straight floats 650lb useful

Anything under 750lbs useful is only suitable for day trips. The 150 on floats is not even useful IMHO

YMMV
LF
---------- ADS -----------
Women and planes have alot in common
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure

Post Reply

Return to “Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service”