AVCANADA

It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:15 am

All times are UTC-07:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:10 pm 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 54
Hello everyone… I’m just looking for some guidance /advise about the prospect of becoming a Bush Pilot in BC… My situation is (I think) rather unusual, so allow me to give a bit of background. Bear with me (and apologies for this very long post):

I'm a Canadian citizen living in Vancouver for over 20 years. I became a Private Pilot when I was 16 years old. That was flying a Piper J3 in small-town southern Brazil, where I was living back in 1982. My original idea was to join the Air Force (in my home country, elsewhere in South America). Yet, after finishing High School, just before I committed to joining the military, I realized that a third-world Air Force with a reputation for corruption and abuse of power wasn’t for me (again, that was NOT in Brazil), so the “natural” option would be becoming a Commercial Pilot. Yet, the idea of flying for an airline, flying set routes and set schedules, following approach procedures and ATC instructions like a robot, didn’t quite appealed to me. On top of that, the job market for pilots at the time was “saturated” (apparently, there were like 3 commercial pilots for every commercial airplane in the country…) As I half-heartedly started my commercial pilot training, my instructor told me that unless I had a really good “connection” in the industry I’d probably never find a job as a pilot (if you wonder why I never considered working in “other countries” at the time, just remember that NO country “welcomes” people from third-world countries, like me… even countries with some sort of immigration program like Canada or Australia, where there are requirements demanding solid work experience and in-demand skills… but let’s not get sidetracked…) My instructor suggested that I perhaps should take some “computer course” since that might help, considering how airplanes were increasingly becoming “computerized” in those days (late 1980s). I know that, looking back, it’s sounds a bit ridiculous, but it sort of made sense at the time. I did get into computers, enjoying it so much that I ended up graduating with a BSc. in Information Technology. That became my career and (oddly) since it was a career “in demand” in Canada in the 1990s, it allowed me to become Landed Immigrant and eventually Canadian Citizen. I’ve been living the Vancouver area since 1996. I divorced more than 15 years ago and my only daughter just started college. I live alone and, being in my early 50s, it feels like it may be the right time to think about myself and do something I really like to do, now that my mortgage is almost paid for, etc.

It goes without saying that, all these years, I could never just “forget” about flying/aviation. It’s an essential part of me. The first time anyone asked me “what are you going to be when you grow up” I instantly replied “Pilot” (even as no one in my family was remotely associated with aviation). When I came to Canada I was hoping to use my computer skills and experience in some sort of aviation environment (working for an aviation-related company or something). Yet, not having “family and friends” in Canada (complicating my job search), I couldn’t afford being picky and I ended up working in non-aviation-related jobs. Luckily, I worked for good companies, with great people, no complaints there. However, due to merges and re-structures I found myself “self-employed” since a couple of years ago. It hasn’t been too bad and I’ve been able to get by. Yet the aviation bug doesn’t let go… Again, I’ve tried working in something “aviation related”, unsuccessfully (turns out that computers and aviation are in many ways “worlds apart”, at least when it comes to what I ended up doing: database management, computer programming, things like that).

Since forever (that would be late 1990s), I’ve somehow managed to quench a bit of my thirst for aviation (and trying not to forget what I had learned in flight school) by playing MS Flight Simulator, from it’s early 1990s versions to the more realistic FS2004 version. Don’t laugh please. I know it’s “just a game”, not the real thing. However, I do find it’s quite realistic in many respects, particularly when it comes to navigation (both regarding Navaids behaviour and landmarks on the ground, wind drifts, using “real world weather” such as cloud cover etc.). The thing is, the more I play it, the more I miss flying, the more I crave “being a pilot”. I had to quit playing MS Flight Simulator for a couple of years due to compatibility issues with my new computer (long story) but I eventually sorted that out and lately, for several months I’ve been “flying” / playing several times a week. Typically, I’d look at a map of BC and aim to fly to airfields in the “middle of nowhere”. Then I’ll take my VNC charts (Vancouver / Kitimat / Prince George / Calgary) and make full flight plans (CR-1 computer calculations and all) and the give it a try (typically on a CE-206 or a CE-182). No GPS (ever), no cheating. It’s just me trying to see if I still know what I’m doing, if I haven’t forgotten stuff, if the “theory” of my flight plans holds up, at least in a simulated environment. I usually play in the evenings so there’s lots of “VFR night flying” (I usually set the game to the actual time of the day etc.), leaving the daylight, longer flights (2-3 hours to forsaken airfields with no runway lightning) for the weekends… (I’m currently “parked” at Prince Rupert and tomorrow I’ll probably go from CYPR to Anahim Lake, or Hudson’s Hope / CYNH… I just like to go to “new” places I’ve never been before, although I’m running out of such “new” airfields)

Apologies for digressing. It’s hard for me to stop myself when I start talking about flying, even if it’s just computer “flight simulation”. I just wanted of give a sense of what I “enjoy” in aviation: random flying to odd spots, flying with basic or non-existing navaids. The challenge of having to resort to basic VFR flight, and perhaps some NDB/VOR triangulation, to find my way and make approaches among mountains and such. It’s my kind of flying. For much that I love big airliners (who doesn’t?) if it came to “work as a pilot” I’d much prefer bush flying, going from remote location to remote location (I’m also a big fan of floats, although I’ve never flown a real floatplane)

I know very well that I cannot become a bush pilot “just like that”, with my very limited experience in real flying (about 100 hours, over 25 years ago). If I ever can afford it, I’d just go “back to flying school”, start it all over again from scratch.

But back to the title of this post… If (say) a few years from now I manage to save the money for flying school (I reckon $10,000 just to re-do the Private Pilot course), which path should I take, aiming to become a Bush Pilot? I know that 50+ years old is “super old” to get started. But I wouldn’t be aiming for the “big bucks”, just aiming to pay my bills. Is it realistic? Is it work available for a (say) Cessna 206 pilot (land or floats) who just got his Commercial license (I intend getting IFR and Float rating too, certainly, and perhaps also multi-engine). I just want to figure out if this “dream” of becoming a Bush Pilot (even if it’s for a few years before I become too old to pass the medical checks) is in the realm of “maybe possible”, or is rather a “not a chance” proposition. And if it’s “maybe possible”, what’s your advise? What should be my priorities? (e.g., should I get the float rating right away, or rather wait to build up land experience before I venture with floats? Is Beaver certification a must-have for bush flying, or is there a job market for pilots of smaller types such as CE-206 or even CE-182? etc.)

Many thanks in advance for your feedback. Sincerity is appreciated: don’t fear “raining on my parade” if you think I’m being delusional (hey I’m 51, so I’m used to the concept of “dreams not coming true” anyway…) I really look forward to read your opinions, advise and perspective! :-)



Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:56 pm 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:50 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Minnesota USA
see thread
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=28848&hilit=howard+lockhart

I know the Howard mentioned. At one time before selling out of the float flying he was running 5 or 6 planes. Half Beavers and half Cessna 185's.. That is a lot of hardware. He then ended his career with a fleet of Cessna twins.

If you are a hard charger you can accomplish anything


_________________
Athabascan Quote: "Know one knows the ways of the wind or the Caribou".


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:04 pm 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:50 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Minnesota USA
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=108569&p=963979&hilit=bush+flying+career#p963979

_________________
Athabascan Quote: "Know one knows the ways of the wind or the Caribou".


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:16 am 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 54
Many thanks for the threads, onceacop. Very informative and helpful (sorry I didn't reply earlier, I had checked "notifications" in the forum and I assumed I'll be notified by e-mail if there was a reply to this post, so I never checked back until now...)
Most encouraging of all is the fact that "bush flying" is seen as sort of an entry-level stepping stone to fancier flying jobs, whereas for me bush flying is actually my "dream job" :-) Those posts are a bit old (2007) but I assume that in general terms not that much have changed in the aviation industry...
Cheers and thanks again! :-)



Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:33 pm 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
Quote:
Most encouraging of all is the fact that "bush flying" is seen as sort of an entry-level stepping stone to fancier flying jobs,


Who told you bush flying is an entry level stepping stone to fancier flying jobs?

Bush flying requires more piloting and thinking skills than most other types of flying.


_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:48 pm 
Offline
Rank 10
Rank 10
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Posts: 2368
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario
Quote:
Bush flying requires more piloting and thinking skills than most other types of flying.


Definitely! Though bush flying might be the objective of lower time pilots. it is hardly easy flying, it requires much more good decision making than any other kind of flying. The wisdom and experience to make those decisions well is hard won. Expect to have to prove yourself to prospective employers, demonstrate maturity and responsible thinking, along with innovation and the ability to improvise when things change.



Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:16 pm 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 54
Cat Driver, Pilot DAR... I fully agree! I was surprised reading in other threads (about pilots looking to fly airliners etc.) people suggesting to "start" with bush flying as way to getting experience... I fully understand the challenges of bush flying and that's precisely what I like about it...! Not for the fainthearted for sure! :-)


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:33 pm 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
Bush flying is flying at its best and will give you an excellent base of aircraft handling skills and the ability to think and make decisions based on what best to do in a changing situation, and thus is a true art..

Flying an airliner is paint by numbers art.

And I found it to be so boring I was incapable of working at it as a means to earn a living.

The best way to understand airline flying is go sit in any air terminal and watch the pilots walk by, all dressed up in their gold trimmed identity uniforms pulling their luggage behind them on wheel equipped cases.

Bush pilots carry their luggage. :D


_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:22 am 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm
Posts: 106
Cat Driver wrote:
Bush flying is flying at its best and will give you an excellent base of aircraft handling skills and the ability to think and make decisions based on what best to do in a changing situation, and thus is a true art..

Flying an airliner is paint by numbers art.

And I found it to be so boring I was incapable of working at it as a means to earn a living.

The best way to understand airline flying is go sit in any air terminal and watch the pilots walk by, all dressed up in their gold trimmed identity uniforms pulling their luggage behind them on wheel equipped cases.

Bush pilots carry their luggage. :D


Don't mistake a bush pilot carrying his or her luggage for taking out the trash. It happens.

The only art I see in bush pilot mastery from Muskrat Falls to Porcupine Lake in an airplane that belongs in a museum is tragedy.

Quote:
And I found it to be so boring I was incapable of working at it as a means to earn a living.


Did you mean to say, "I was incapable of working at it as a means to earn a living"?

Your sum total of heavy iron flying is zero. You're entitled to an opinion of the trade but it would hold so much more value if you had any experience with it.



Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:43 pm 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
Quote:
Did you mean to say, "I was incapable of working at it as a means to earn a living"?


No, I said I chose not to fly the " Heavy Iron " as you call it because that type of flying is just plain boring in my personal opinion.

Quote:

Your sum total of heavy iron flying is zero. You're entitled to an opinion of the trade but it would hold so much more value if you had any experience with it.


And what exactly do you base that opinion on?

I six different instructors teaching me in the A320 Sim at the factory in Toulouse, I personally found it boring after a the first five or so hours.

I still have my Air France pilot ID card that I used for years flying all over their routes and had so many hours jump seating in their airplanes as well as flying back and forth with KLM on the same pass that it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

I had enough exposure to heavy Jet flying to convince me I had zero interest in it.

By the way speaking of big airplanes the DC6 was far more demanding than a Boeing or an Airbus jet....especially in the environment we flew them in the far North.

And last but not least I managed to earn enough money flying for the clients I worked for that I was very happy.


_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:10 pm 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm
Posts: 106
I hope you told your instructors they were all wrong because you didn't do it that way on the 170 in Rhubarb Lake.

When I refer to having experience with heavy iron I was referring to operating the aircraft.

My opinion of your airline experience is inaccurate. A few sim sessions and some deadheading is the extent of your airline experience so the sum total of your airline experience is near zero, not actually zero. I stand corrected.



Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:41 pm 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
Quote:
My opinion of your airline experience is inaccurate. A few sim sessions and some deadheading is the extent of your airline experience so the sum total of your airline experience is near zero, not actually zero. I stand corrected.


Well I had enough sim time at the Airbus factory to decide I would not want to fly them for a living.

My time sitting in the jump seat was quite a bit more than " some time " because I sat in the jump seat for hundreds of hours on my airline pilot pass over the years I was being paid by Air France.

What exactly is your definition of airline experience, Austin airways was a 705 arline and NWT Airways was a 705 airline and between the two of them I flew over 5000 hours on the DC3 and DC6 which are more demanding than the new jets that are more being a computer monitoring observer than a pilot in my personal opinion.

I was chief pilot for a 703 airline as well as chief pilot for two 705 charter operations so I obviously have some idea of how the industry works.

Anyhow I was giving my opinion on flying the bush to someone who asked and you chimed in and gave your opinion.

That is what makes life interesting we all have opinions and are free to express them.

Oh, by the way I started flying turbine powered aircraft in 1974 and have thousands of hours on them both fixed wing and rotary wing and they are far less problem to fly than piston powered aircraft.

One of the most interesting little jets I flew for a company was a twin engine four place little machine.


_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:51 pm 
Offline
Rank 8
Rank 8

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:21 am
Posts: 911
WastedFlyer wrote:
Hello everyone… I’m just looking for some guidance /advise about the prospect of becoming a Bush Pilot in BC… My situation is (I think) rather unusual, so allow me to give a bit of background. Bear with me (and apologies for this very long post):


Well the first thing I would suggest is make sure you can get a Cat 1 medical.



Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:29 pm 
Offline
Rank 4
Rank 4

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:01 pm
Posts: 268
I once went to an air show. I saw some fighter planes making a lot of noise. Anyone want the low down on a military career?


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:53 am 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm
Posts: 106
Quote:
My time sitting in the jump seat was quite a bit more than " some time " because I sat in the jump seat for hundreds of hours on my airline pilot pass over the years I was being paid by Air France.


Did you log your jumpseat time as PIC? I'm not sure if you know but some countries still don't accept that as PIC.

You didn't log your sim time as flight time did you?

Jumpseat time equals closer to zero.

I'm sure the DC6 jumpseat was more uncomfortable than the 320 jumpseat so I hope you logged your DC6 jumpseat time at 3X your 320 jumpseat time.



Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:16 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
Back to your original questions WastedFlyer.

I flew for a living for fifty one years and I live on Vancouver Island and I know people in your area that you can meet and get to know who own their own aviation companies.

PM me and I will give you some help.

Of course you could ask for help from telex or atphat but judging from their in put to your post so far I doubt they would really know much. :lol: :lol:


_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:26 am 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 54
Telex, Cat Driver... You're both right... When I posted my reply to Cat Driver and PilotDAR the other day I *almost* added that I thought "airline flying" was something boring and that I had no interest in a flying career based on (mostly) programming waypoints and following ATC instructions... Yet, I bit my tongue on time and didn't add that note, because in all fairness (on top of the fact that I've never done either bush or airline flying) every pilot's worth is in their ability to address emergencies and make sound and effective decisions, be it flying an A320 or a CE185. Airliners and bush airplanes are different beasts, each with their own set of challenges, but in the end we're all pilots, we understand the basics and our priorities are the same: safe, effective flying. Personally, I believe that bush flying is more "my type of flying", yet, although it may be tempting to "look down" on the fancier airline jobs (and perhaps it's also tempting for airline pilots to "look down" on those flying small propeller aircraft in the bush), deep down we're all pilots and we're not that much different, I'd think...


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:32 am 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm
Posts: 106
Quote:
Of course you could ask for help from telex or atphat but judging from their in put to your post so far I doubt they would really know much. :lol: :lol:


I probably sat on the toilet longer than you sat in the jumpseat but I didn't log the time.

You're right dad, I don't know much. If it wasn't for that f*cking 172 I would know so much more.



Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:47 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
Don' t get discouraged telex as you mature and get more experience you will not feel you need to troll to get your rocks off.

_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:57 am 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm
Posts: 106
Thanks dad, your advice is invaluable as always.

Do you find it as entertaining as me that when you are called on your bs you change the subject to your safe space?



Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:28 am 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 54
J31 wrote:
WastedFlyer wrote:
Hello everyone… I’m just looking for some guidance /advise about the prospect of becoming a Bush Pilot in BC… My situation is (I think) rather unusual, so allow me to give a bit of background. Bear with me (and apologies for this very long post):


Well the first thing I would suggest is make sure you can get a Cat 1 medical.


Agreed! I'm on it... I'm in pretty good health (I think) but I probably can do better... I used to run 7K per week (weather permitting) but last year I slacked, so I'm getting back to it and hopefully I'll be in "top shape" in a couple of months... But who knows, maybe I have some underlying health issue and this will be the "end of story"...? we'll see...



Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:56 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 18770
I probably should just ignore your comments telex, however it would seem you are calling me a liar.

Quote:
Do you find it as entertaining as me that when you are called on your bs you change the subject to your safe space?


Considering I use my real name on this forum would you point out where I misrepresented my background and claimed to have done something I have not?

As to your safe space comment that is really astonishing, it is not me who is posting under a make believe identity.

Chuck Ellsworth ( Cat Driver )


_________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:31 am 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:05 pm
Posts: 106
Dad, I know I triggered you to your safe space as we're dealing with another topic change.

Go to your safe space. Stay in your safe space. Do not come out until you are ready.

Feel free to use whatever identity you feel is appropriate on the internet. Please know that I accept the gender you identify as.

If you still have problems with your ego at your age I can't help you with that. You should have grown out of that at least fifty years ago.



Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:55 am 
Offline
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Telex, knock it off, please.

_________________
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?

Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:09 pm 
Offline
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:00 pm
Posts: 474
My two cents on somewhere I would want to work had I started all over again....would be Gillam Air. The planes aren't fancy but I had the great fortune of meeting Pat when I was sent to move 100 drums over a weekend out of Gillam and the company neglected to tell me they couldn't secure any help. I had to scrounge around for lumber to create some ramps and Pat came to my aid, he even helped me load them in the back of his pick up truck and push them into the plane when he wasn't busy flying!

The pilot there at the time raved about the type of operation it was and that if something was on the higher side of the risk spectrum, Pat would do the flight himself and not put his employees outside of their knowledge, skills or abilities.

From all of my dealings thus far in Aviation, Gillam Air was one of the finest operators I have ever run into. I guess I just want to send out a big thanks to Pat for all his help and I don't think I have met such a hard working guy since!

Cheers and good luck...Bush flying is great, just find a good operator to work for and as Cat says...hardest thing in flying is when to say no and if you want a long career in the bush it's something you will have to aim at becoming good at!



Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC-07:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot], YYZSaabGuy and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]

For questions/comments please send them to
avcanada@gmail.com


AvCanada Topsites List
AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com Avitop.com

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. If you feel a topic or post is inappropriate email us at avcanada@gmail.com .  By reading these forums you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable. This website is not responsible or liable in any way for any false or misleading messages or job ads placed at our site. 

Use AvCanada's information at your own risk!

We reserve the right to remove any messages that we deem unacceptable.
When you post a message, your IP is logged and may be provided to concerned parties where unethical or illegal behavior is apparent. All rights reserved.