Hand spanking C47

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samcole
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Hand spanking C47

#1 Post by samcole » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:38 am

Been cruising some of the posts and thoroughly enjoying some of the pics and stories. Came across the subject of hand spanking or hand bombing, what ever you want to call and thought I would throw in my 2 cents. When I was wrenching for OCA or Patricia Air Transport out of Pickle we went up to Wunnumin Lake to rescue old BJE that froze up. Forget who was drivin' it, but Pete the Finn and I flew up there to get it going. Battery were frozen so once we heated the engines we started it by hand swinging the prop. Pilot was in the cockpit, Pete straddled the nacelle just aft of the scoop with two pop cans full of gas and I swung the prop. Dump one can down the scoop and swing it through a couple of blades; then mags on; swing some more and when she started to fire another pop can full of gas down the hatch. It would usually back fire out the carb so was glad it was Pete with his arm stuck in there. You can't see Pete in this photo. I think he was slightly behind the nacelle.
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NWONT
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#2 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:21 am

Yup, not easy but can be done. In 1983 Kevin Beddome and I hand swung CF-KBU in the middle of Angling Lake after the starter died. Two guys swinging the prop, Trevor Northcott working the primer switch and ignition vibrator. Plane was on skis and snow was deep...but we gott'er done!!! When I see pictures like this it makes me think of a thousand I could have taken but it was all just another days work!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#3 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:43 am

Yup, and we didn't need to have someone reading the SOP's in the background. :smt040
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#4 Post by Bacunayagua » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:59 am

Cat Driver wrote:Yup, and we didn't need to have someone reading the SOP's in the background. :smt040
Maybe you guys should have.

https://aviation-safety.net/statistics/

If you fancy some reading, look up "survival bias". Might enlighten you a bit.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#5 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:42 am

If you fancy some reading, look up "survival bias". Might enlighten you a bit.

So am I to take it that my fifty one years of accident free commercial flying was just pure luck?

If I were not retired I sure would like it if some of you guys that know it all would come out here and educate me about how to fly safely.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#6 Post by crazyaviator » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:31 am

And then there are pilots who live in their parents basement who have done little more than circuits and point A to B in their life, accusing others of being liars and not following all the rules!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#7 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:58 am

I rarely comment on AC anymore because, at times, I have a hard time keeping my lunch down when I hear comments for a child that has never flown a plane anywhere without a GPS or a snowflake on the wing but can sure spout every bullshit air reg that has ever been written that will prevent them from getting off the ground!!! I also get just a tiny bit cranky when some still-wet-behind-the ears virgin throws insults at an aviator like Cat Driver that has done more in one week of his life than many of you will do in your entire careers......if you even have a career.....and I don't consider sitting in Moms basement mailing out hundreds of resumes, waiting for the response for that job that you feel you are entitled to because you are now the holder of a document that says you are a "PROFFESSIONAL PILOT!!!!!.....a career!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#8 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:10 am

When I did my ATPL it was back in the days of the real interesting airplanes and the exam was not multiple choice, you had to hand write the answers and each exam was marked by a human actually reading the answers and deciding if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground.

The airplane the exam used was the Lockheed Super Constellation which in my opinion was the last real interesting airliner built.

When I was in the airplane restoration business we took one out of storage and renewed its C of A for a customer in California.....that was a truly awesome airplane to work on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynlAVeQd_MY


Compare that to starting an Airbus for complexity.

Yeh for sure the old timers were not really pilots. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


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Re: Hand spanking C47

#9 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:00 pm

sometimes when I have nothing else to think about I imagine a line of Corsairs taxiing to the runway when one of the canopies slides back and the pilot yells "Hey, Pappy!! Got a problem. did my run-up. Mag drop on left side is 175rpm. SOP's say 150 max. Gotta go back!! BTW, see all those BF-109's coming out of the sun? Keep you eyes open!! Even without the mag problem my duty day would be up half way through this sortie anyhow!! SOP's are there for a reason so must be obeyed. Have a great day guys!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#10 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:07 pm

When I wrote my DC-3 endorsement 35 years ago on my engineers lic it was also all long hand. TC guy says "You got three hours, no more!!" If you had to stop to think you wouldn't get through it. I used about 25 folscap pages. I got it finished without a minute to lose. Don't know why the time limit because it became a test of speed writing and diagram drawing more than a test of knowledge of the old bird!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#11 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:46 pm

Ahh the good old days.

When we had to change an engine on a DC3 somewhere far up where enemas are given we called the engineer and said we needed that spare because this one is making metal big time.

When the engineer showed up with the engine the old one was sitting on the ground in an engine crate ready for him to load up and take it home.

There where no helpers with him because we were his helpers and it worked just fine.

You see we had the correct mindset and motivation to do it right because it would be our asses sitting in it if we fucked it up.

NWONT, thirty five years ago I was flying a water bomber in Manitoba, the best people I ever worked for, Manitoba actually had government bureaucrats that could think and used common sense.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

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Re: Hand spanking C47

#12 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:13 pm

Government bureaucrats and common sense!! Don't often hear those words used together. 35 years ago I was co-pilot and engineer on a DC-3 for Bearskin Air.....the only help I had on the maintenance side was my jack-all and my truck. The jack-all helped me hold the skis against the axles and my truck provided lights to install them at night. Damn, I was a helluva man back then I tell ya!!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#13 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:17 pm

A real man can take two inches of dick out of four inches of clothing and have a piss at forty below and not get any on his gloves.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


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Re: Hand spanking C47

#14 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:35 pm

Damn, not sure if I was that good of a man!!!
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Bacunayagua
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#15 Post by Bacunayagua » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:32 pm

"The good old days"

Ah yes, when planes were falling out of the sky left right and centre.

Look at this guy comparing himself to a member of the Jolly Rogers. Bahahahaahha you guys kill me, you flew DC-3s, relax there cowboy. You guys make yourselves out to be the Canadian Chuck Yeagers and Bob Hoovers.
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Antique Pilot
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#16 Post by Antique Pilot » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:29 pm

samcole wrote:Been cruising some of the posts and thoroughly enjoying some of the pics and stories. Came across the subject of hand spanking or hand bombing, what ever you want to call and thought I would throw in my 2 cents. When I was wrenching for OCA or Patricia Air Transport out of Pickle we went up to Wunnumin Lake to rescue old BJE that froze up. Forget who was drivin' it, but Pete the Finn and I flew up there to get it going. Battery were frozen so once we heated the engines we started it by hand swinging the prop. Pilot was in the cockpit, Pete straddled the nacelle just aft of the scoop with two pop cans full of gas and I swung the prop. Dump one can down the scoop and swing it through a couple of blades; then mags on; swing some more and when she started to fire another pop can full of gas down the hatch. It would usually back fire out the carb so was glad it was Pete with his arm stuck in there. You can't see Pete in this photo. I think he was slightly behind the nacelle.
Hi Sam,

Thanks for the very interesting post. I have often wondered how this was done. Heard about hand bombing a C47 but never saw it done. I have the greatest respect for you and others that can rescue an aircraft under difficult circumstances.

Cheers,
AP
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#17 Post by Cat Driver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:00 pm

Speaking of flying skills Bacunayagua I read your posts here since you started and thought I would ask you if you ever got enough experience to get hired on a two crew airplane?

You wrote:
What options does a 1700 hour guy have over there?

No Turbine or two crew.

1700 TT
1550 PIC
650 MPIC
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#18 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:43 pm

Thanks for the post Sam. Every DC-3 discussion always brings back memories of the good old days!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#19 Post by NWONT » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:47 pm

BTW, WTF are the Jolly Rogers? Damn I get lost in these chats about hand spanking a DC-3?
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#20 Post by xsbank » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:47 pm

I flew a Racer out of The Puddle in 1979. Changed more jugs and fought my first engine fire, saw my first jug come straight through a cowling. Cold, firepots, adf approaches into private airstrips, 50’ on radar altimeter over a frozen lake, at night. F*** I’m still alive!! Not sure why...
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#21 Post by samcole » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:53 pm

Holy cow!! This is my first post and I didn't realize it would garner such a lively discussion. Was somebody suggesting this was dangerous? Hmm. Of course it's pretty hard to swing the prop on a "pig boat".I just finished the morning plowing around in a super typhoon. Maybe I should send some pics of that and see what happens. Anyway, thanks Antique and Ray.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#22 Post by samcole » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:55 pm

Probably because you had a radar altimeter.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#23 Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:48 am

You guys are all wusses! Real men hand carved a prop out of a tree and bolted it onto your Gypsy. Bought gas from the nearest trading post in 5 gal containers. DC3 has two engines? That's also for the sissies!

It's called progress. Yes a DC3 is better than a Fox Moth, but a ATR/Dash 8 is better than a DC3. How many old timers know friends that died in a DC3 crash? How many Dash pilots know friends that died in a Dash?

SOPs brought in a huge safety improvement. You can't deny that with logic or evidence, so please stop belittling them. "Well I didn't kill myself and I didn't have SOPs" isn't a good argument at all because there are hundreds of crashes where a coherent crew would otherwise be alive with their passengers.

In regard to a mechanic fixing a stranded plane. The first thing I do is "what can I do to help". We're also now in his relm where he's got the knowledge and experience regarding misbehaving airplanes. I'm going to follow his lead. SOPs are for a crew flying functioning airplane.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#24 Post by NWONT » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:55 am

There was a time when most or at least many accidents were blamed on aging aircraft, tied engines that had been overhauled too many times, operating piston engines in severe cold, few or nonexistent nav aids, etc, etc. SOP's, as they are used today, in most cases would never let a plane off the ground. Of course there were accidents and many of them. These days with satellite navigation and state-of-the-art aircraft and engines that rarely present a problem, the focus for accident solving has moved to human factors. How often does a Dash-8 engine fail, or catch fire? SOP's work in this new age with new aircraft that can fly themselves because that's how you protect the plane from the pilot. This discussion went from some guys hand swinging a prop on a stranded aircraft to someone whipping out his modern day SOP's to tell us all why this should never be done. Give me a fking break!!! There was also a time when you got paid for the work you did. If you didn't do any work.....then you didn't get any pay...simple as that. If that plane is on the ground then your pay is in the bosses wallet!!!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#25 Post by digits_ » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:11 am

Cat Driver wrote: So am I to take it that my fifty one years of accident free commercial flying was just pure luck?
Not just luck, but it is definitely a factor.

"Smoking doesn't give you lung cancer, my grandpa's been smoking for 80 years and is still healthy!"
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