Hand spanking C47

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samcole
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#51 Post by samcole » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:44 am

Hi Pete, glad to see your still out there. Saw your picture with the guys at Jack's memorial. Wished I could have been there. Remember that load of canned goods you spread along the road rushing to put out that engine fire on SFI.
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TG
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#52 Post by TG » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:22 am

NWONT wrote:None of us ever heard of SOP's or duty days or any of the rest of that bullshit.
Bullshit!? Are you sure about that?
Remind me of life expectancy at that time.

Speaking of (life expectancy) This "My generation is the best" type of banter did not start with yours or mine.
I'm sure if we could bring guys from WWII, they would happily call all of you a bunch of wuss for not getting shot at while dead reckoning! :wink:
But yes, big massive thank you for clearing my path and make my life wayyy much easier than what it could have been.
I think that is what Bacunayagua is missing.



Keep the pictures and stories coming...
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#53 Post by NWONT » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:38 am

Ha ha, I knew when I typed 'bullshit" somebodies panties were going bunch up. Yes, life expectancy was somewhat shorter than today for sure. Can't even remember how many funerals I've been to but I'm sure getting tired of trying to explain the differences in the challenges there was in flying 40 years ago from today. You like pictures? Well here's one for you. I changed this engine in Gillam Man in 1974. The warmest it got was -42F and I was wishing someone would have shot me and put me out of my misery. lol
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#54 Post by NWONT » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:04 am

I know I'm getting older and my patience level has gone way down, but I often think that this is who I'm talking to on AvCanada!!!
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#55 Post by godsrcrazy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:51 am

I believe the above should say.

The SOP says its not serviceable. If you can't get it fixed soon i can't go. My duty day is over at 15:30.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#56 Post by samcole » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:12 pm

NWONT is right when he says there were no SOPS or duty days. I feel like we are a bit off track here from the original post, but for what it's worth we really did not SOPs. Never heard of them...or an OPS manual...duty days or anything else. There were no training syllabus'...flight manuals...load sheet sheets or paperwork of any kind. Man when I think back it was pretty simple. I'm still a qualified and working 737 captain and I realize the huge change that's occurred since then, but I think we can all recognize that. I don't think anyone is trying to put anyone else down. These are just facts.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#57 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:02 pm

I feel like we are a bit off track here from the original post, but for what it's worth we really did not SOPs.


But we did have check lists for the airplane we were flying.
Never heard of them...or an OPS manual...duty days or anything else.
True but we did understand when we were too sick or tired to fly...at least we should have. :)
There were no training syllabus'...flight manuals...load sheet sheets or paperwork of any kind.


True, but we were trained to fly the airplane we were flying...sometimes better than others. :)

And we did know how to do a W&B and we could do simple math to figure it all out. :)
Man when I think back it was pretty simple.
Ahh just think of the size of the ANO's and compare them to the CAR's. :vom: :vom:
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#58 Post by xsbank » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:26 pm

YOU RAN WITH SCISSORS?! Holy crap!
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#59 Post by valleyboy » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:51 am

Not scissors but away from shot guns and pissed off husbands and BF's -- try to explain "it was only stick time" to one of them :smt040
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#60 Post by Siddley Hawker » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:49 am

Holy cow!! This is my first post and I didn't realize it would garner such a lively discussion. Was somebody suggesting this was dangerous? Hmm. Of course it's pretty hard to swing the prop on a "pig boat".I just finished the morning plowing around in a super typhoon. Maybe I should send some pics of that and see what happens. Anyway, thanks Antique and Ray.
Not quite hand bombing but if you had a bum starter you could start the pig using the other engine and a rope. If the right starter was good the rope went over both prop domes - to come off the top of the dome - and if the left starter was good, under both domes. That's Jimmy Bell's version anyway. Cat, didn't you once get a Twin Beech going by using a modification of that 'SOP'? :)

Sam I knew your dad well, he was a good friend. I flew with him at Northern Wings in the '60's.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#61 Post by Cat Driver » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:00 am

Cat, didn't you once get a Twin Beech going by using a modification of that 'SOP'? :)
Yes I did, it is a bit easier than starting the PBY that way because the engines are closer to the ground. :mrgreen:
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#62 Post by switchflicker » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Question- When you did the rope trick from one engine to another, did you let the engine with the working starter light up at the same time as the one with the lame starter? Seem like that might keep you a tad busy.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#63 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:52 am

No, I had the wheels chocked and the brakes on.

I used the starter on the engine I was using to start the other one with the mags off.

985's start real easy if they are primed correct, so when the engine with the starter that was dead started I set the RPM to 800 and got out and retrieved my rope and pulled the chocks and started the other engine and went flying.

You do not want the engine that is being used to start the other engine to fire up as the rope could get really clusterfucked.


It is a very simple procedure actually.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#64 Post by switchflicker » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:25 pm

Cat Driver wrote: You do not want the engine that is being used to start the other engine to fire up as the rope could get really clusterfucked.


It is a very simple procedure actually.
Of course. That makes a whole lot of sense. Elsewise you might (would) have a monster vertical weed eater!!
Thanks
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#65 Post by Spandau » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:21 pm

Bacunayagua wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:37 pm
I'll do you one better, I found someone to hire me as DEC into a two crew aircraft. Something about leveraging the current employment market to my advantage.
That might be a slightly Freudian way of saying that your current employers had hit the bottom of the barrel and THERE YOU WERE. I wouldn't go bragging about it much. Good SOP's are the only way to go - nobody will argue that - and thankfully we've evolved enough to have them, but they are STANDARD operating practices or procedures, not a replacement for common sense, ability, experience, or talent. And you'll find that many, many situations in this game are decidedly NON-STANDARD, and multiple unrelated problems are real and do happen, and when you run into them (and you will) that you'll have to ad-lib sometimes and be able to think on your feet, even if it means throwing the precious rule book into the fire. You'll benefit (ie live longer) by listening to and considering what some of the wise old pelicans like Cat and others have to say rather than standing up and waving your dick at them.


I remember something someone said once about using a ski-doo to start a Dak was kosher but using a pickup would often result in a bent engine mount, but it might have just been "bar talk". It was something I never acquired the bragging rights to. I have however seen what happens when 50' of yellow nylon rope gets tossed into a Twin Otter prop... It makes probably about an acre's worth of fine yellow fuzz! I can imagine how much of a pain it must have been to cut all that wadded up rope off the prop shaft! :-) And I'll bet it was a nice cold day with a refreshing breeze too. Keep the pics and stories coming.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#66 Post by Cat Driver » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:17 pm

You'll benefit (ie live longer) by listening to and considering what some of the wise old pelicans like Cat and others have to say rather than standing up and waving your dick at them.
I really do not pay much attention to dick wavers because I am not really interested in dicks. :finga:

For sure aviation has improved immensely since the days of the DC3 being the standard of aviation.

However the big improvement in safety can be attributed to aircraft design and engine reliability improvements far more than improvements in pilot skills.

Those of us from that era can look back and relate to the improvements based on having flown in both era's the newer generations can only relate to what aviation is today and then to make them self's look superior they fall back on what they read about the accident rates back then.

Where do they think aviation would be if we had not kept it going so improvements could be made? :roll:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


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Re: Hand spanking C47

#67 Post by Spandau » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:27 pm

That kinda reminds me of what they used to say about AD's... how they were originally written in blood.
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Re: Hand spanking C47

#68 Post by Siddley Hawker » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:14 pm

... Good SOP's are the only way to go - nobody will argue that - and thankfully we've evolved enough to have them, but they are STANDARD operating practices or procedures, not a replacement for common sense, ability, experience, or talent. And you'll find that many, many situations in this game are decidedly NON-STANDARD, and multiple unrelated problems are real and do happen, and when you run into them (and you will) that you'll have to ad-lib sometimes and be able to think on your feet, even if it means throwing the precious rule book into the fire. You'll benefit (ie live longer) by listening to and considering what some of the wise old pelicans like Cat and others have to say rather than standing up and waving your dick at them.
+1 !

Trouble is though, should you use your common sense and bend the SOPS a little, if it gets back to the powers that be your ass - to put it indelicately - will be grass. I once watched a -8 get deiced. Nothing unusual about that, SOPS all the way and the little "When In Doubt" video from MOT to back that decision up. But. the outside temp was -13, and the wind was gusting to 25 knots, blowing the loose snow around a bit and most of the fluid wound up on the ramp anyway. The only visible ice on the airplane was a thin line of rime on the wing leading edge, that the guy would have picked up while over the water on approach, flying through a couple hundred feet of strato cu. Would I have called for deicing? No. The airplane obviously flew well and never fell out of the sky on approach, odds were it would do the same on departure.

I'm a little surprised that SOPS has even made it into this thread except peripherally. Starting a DC-3 - or any other airplane - using anything other than the starter, I would call a "Get-my-ass-out-of-here-and-back-to-base" procedure, to be used once. About as far from a SOP as it's possible to get.
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