Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

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Bush_Pilot_Daughter
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Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Bush_Pilot_Daughter »

Hello,

I am the daughter of a bush pilot who spent approx 13 yrs flying in the Canadian North from Watson Lake to Black Tickle and many places along or above the tundra line between.

My father is now in his mid 70s and has significant hearing loss which is believed to be a result of flying the DHC-2 and DHC-3 (floats) during the 1970s and 80's. Ofcourse WSIB is asking for named references and sadly many of the pilots he knew during those days are deceased. This said, I am expecting his initial application for hearing aids to be declined so I am building my appeal case and any info from reputable sources discussing hearing loss for pilots, ideally related to bush pilots and those two awesome flying machines.

I am googling myself blind, I found one report stating the db for DHC-2 on avg is 85 db; however, I do not believe that is cockpit noise.

I will continue to do my detailed search and possibly some FOI requests for studies from DHC, NavCan, etc.; however, ANY help anyone could provide in supporting this case - industry or health studies etc would be more than appreciated...OR, anyone or know anyone who has had to deal with WSIB re: flying related hearing loss.

Lastly, many of the flight services he fly for/with are gone - any help finding people from 1970 to 1985 who worked for the below would be awesome!
Nahanni Air
Yukon Air (Whitehorse)
Parson's Air (Flin Flon, MB)
Geoterrex (Ottawa)

THANK YOU.
Maya
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'97 Tercel
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by '97 Tercel »

Hi, as far as 'Nahanni Air' goes - you could contact Warren Wright at North-Wright Airways in Norman Wells, NWT and ask about this subject and also how to contact Perry Linton (I think he's still around?).

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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by mmm..bacon »

Good Luck!

Check your PMs!
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Redneck_pilot86 »

Is it possible to rent the gear to measure noise? If so, a short charter on one of the named types would answer your questions.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by fish4life »

The only thing is you would need to prove he never used any sort of headset as well which can be tough when going that far back in history. Headset technology certainly isn’t where it is today but some guys used it others didn’t.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Lost Lake »

I'm in my mid sixties. I like to learn if you hear (sic) anything. Having the same hearing problems.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by MAD DOGGY »

Send me a PM with contact info
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by peterdillon »

See this report in a plane magazine "recent study by OSHA measured noise levels in a Cessna 172S and found an average maximum sound level of just over 101 dB". While that doesn't answer the original question we know that the Beaver and Otter are far noise than a 172 and the Norseman another leap up from that again. With 90 DB the threshold for hearing loss there would be no way for the Beaver or Otter have cabin noise anywhere near that range. If you are wearing head phones then that has to be factored in though.
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ransom
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by ransom »

Hi. I have flown beavers otters and beech 18 among other aircraft for the past 50 + years and am in the process of applying for web hearing aid assistance. I cannot find any info either on the cockpit db but I will be flying some this summer and I am going to take a dB meter to actually measure it. I don’t know if I will need it but I will pass it on to you. As someone else said wearing headsets may be an issue. When most of my damage was done most of us only wore headsets to use the radio and there wasn’t much use for that either. Also the early headsets did not do much in the way o for noise suppression.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by flaps78 »

Re Perry Linton

Go to Google and insert "Perry Linton Armstrong BC" if that doesn't work try "Perry Linton Ottter Lake BC"

Flaps78
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bubba070
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by bubba070 »

I'm not sure how accurate this is but I have a db meter app on my iPhone. Climb power is about 103 db and cruise only a db lower.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by bubba070 »

I'm not sure how accurate this is but I have a db meter app on my iPhone. Climb power is about 103 db and cruise only one db lower.
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Jungle Jim
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Jungle Jim »

Guys,

The noise level at 102 db is very high. The scale is a logarithmic scale. Two identical noise sources side by side will increase the sound level by 3 db. In other words to get the sound level down to 90 db(12 db reduction) will really need to have the sound source reduced to 1/4 of what it is now. I finished my license in the mid eighties and we weren't using headsets then, so it is very likely that the pilots then had significant exposure to extreme noise levels.

Regards,

Jim
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by beaverbob »

I also have hearing loss and have been approved for Worksafe BC supplied hearing aids. I have 47db loss in left ear and only 21 in the right ear. Worksafe said no financial compensation but hearing aid will supplied and serviced as required. On the application form I just listed all the employers names and when I worked at each one and stated noisy to very noisy aircraft as the case may be for each company. I never listed actual db. Many of these companies are gone.
Bob Bates
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Lost Lake »

Any recent updates? Just got my first set of hearing aids.

Old beaver pilot.
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Alcoholism
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Alcoholism »

of course no operator with these deaf makers will do shit. Best thing to do for future pilot is to avoid places with these planes until they take health and safety (yours) seriously.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by W5 »

In July I needed an audiogram done (for a medical), and within a week I received a letter from WCB that I had occupational hearing loss and I needed to fill in a bunch of forms and supply a list of former employers.

They were wondering about the difference in hearing loss between left and right, and they only thing I could think of was that I mostly flew with only my left ear covered. Ergo it was the radios blaring in my ear that caused the loss.

Anyways, within two months I had two hearing aids, with a lifetime supply and service courtesy of WCB
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Lost Lake »

Which part of the country was this. I would like to try. In my first years on a beaver, we weren't aloud to wear head sets. Deaf as a brick now.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by W5 »

If you are referring to my post, this was in Edmonton, AB. The audiologist immediately noted the dip and notified the WCB. Obviously they wanted to sell some hearing aids. (They are expensive!)
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Castorero »

It's not as if WCB, in BC anyway, isn't aware of the connection between flying an Otter or Beaver for a few years, and subsequent hearing loss.

Depends who you may be dealing with.

Sometimes they are just stone deaf to your plight until you get their attention. In the past, that included some legal stimulation.

If one has an audiogram with the accompanying ENT or audiologist assessment AND the History of prolonged exposure, it should be a slam dunk.

From what I hear, BC WCB has been rather sensitive to the needs of near deaf pilots as stated by Beaverbob.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by beaverbob »

I took my Worksafe BC paperwork to Nexgen Hearing in South Surrey, BC. All they needed was my file number and they did a thorough audio test including having to repeat various words back from a recorded list. Needless to say I got a lot of words wrong. A week later I went back and she fitted me with Bluetooth controlled hearing aids and programed them with her computer while in my ears. Needless to say "tone deaf" is an accurate statement.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by flymum »

Thought this the best thread to bring this up.......I fly Beavers and my headset is coming up to 20 years old and am looking for a new headset. Any input on a great headset for the DHC-2 on floats is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Firetractor »

I used a Zulu lightspeed 2/3 for the last 4 or so years and it worked pretty well for me. However you always want to make sure you have a couple extra sets of batteries on hand. The punishment for having the batteries die on you away from base was severe.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by TailwheelPilot »

I have used a Telex 50D in Twin Otters, but not Beavers or Otters. It is an older headset, clunky, heavy, and I do not think the ANR is as good as the newer headsets, but it is comparable to a passive David Clark without power. My experience with their customer service has been bearable but not great.

I have been looking for a new headset for a few years but have yet to find a good ANR headset that also has some level or reasonable passive performance. I have seen mention that passive and active noise cancelling deal with different ranges and ideally all of it is blocked, since it all is damaging. Other than Telex or converting a passive headset to ANR myself, I have only found the short-lived Seinhauser S1. They said the S1 had passive noise reduction but it had not yet been certified when I contacted them and next thing I heard was they were leaving the aviation market.
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Re: Info Request: Hearing Loss - DHC-2 Beaver & DHC-3 Otter

Post by Ki-ll »

TailwheelPilot wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:50 pm
I have used a Telex 50D in Twin Otters, but not Beavers or Otters. It is an older headset, clunky, heavy, and I do not think the ANR is as good as the newer headsets, but it is comparable to a passive David Clark without power. My experience with their customer service has been bearable but not great.

I have been looking for a new headset for a few years but have yet to find a good ANR headset that also has some level or reasonable passive performance. I have seen mention that passive and active noise cancelling deal with different ranges and ideally all of it is blocked, since it all is damaging. Other than Telex or converting a passive headset to ANR myself, I have only found the short-lived Seinhauser S1. They said the S1 had passive noise reduction but it had not yet been certified when I contacted them and next thing I heard was they were leaving the aviation market.
How about earplugs worn together with a Bose A20?
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