703 one employee?

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headache
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703 one employee?

Post by headache »

Hi,

Is it possible/thinkable to start and operate a 703 with one employee?

Thanks
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Beaver Driver
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by Beaver Driver »

Sure it is. As long as you qualify for all the key positions and can pass the tests. PRM can be tricky if you don’t have a maintenance background, but not impossible.
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sunk
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by sunk »

I operate with just myself, I’m the PRM, ops manager and chief pilot. As I’m semi retired I can pick and choose what work I want. I only take on two contracts and fly about 150 hrs per year.
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headache
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by headache »

Thanks guys that's useful.

Sunk, I have no management experience, but some time to learn (thanks covid). I'm on the way to buying a small 310 for myself and my wife, but can't get my head around the fact that I can't bring friends/family/acquaintances in exchange for plane expenses (and a little more).
So while I'm turning my thumbs here, your post seems to confirm I could realistically pass all 3 exams, interview, write an ops manual and absorb some of the plane's expenses. Your two cents: not a crazy idea?

How much more are you insurances vs just private?
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photofly
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by photofly »

The difference gets smaller (proportionately) the bigger the airplane, but if you’re currently maintaining your aircraft using CAR625 Appendices B&C as your approved maintenance schedule, then the upscale in maintenance costs for working to an individual schedule approved for the model of airplane you intend to operate (which will be required for a commercial registration) will eat ten times the “little more” than you’ll get from flying friends. And those extra maintenance costs will apply to all your own private flying, too.

Sunk’s post is a valuable data point, but before you get too excited, he didn’t tell you what he has to charge per flight hour for his two contracts to make things worthwhile.

There is a reason why chisel charters are “popular”, and (legal) air taxi rates are very high, which is that doing things both by the book at “mates rates” is very difficult to do profitably. Of course you may have very rich friends, But they would have to love you a lot for you to be able to run a business with them as your only customers.

And then, yes, the insurance will be significantly more.
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Last edited by photofly on Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
ahramin
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by ahramin »

Insurance is the tip of the iceberg.

As a private aircraft you can do a lot of your maintenance yourself. Look up the list of elementary maintenance items in the CARs. You will also be able to decide what recommended maintenance gets done and what gets deferred. As a commercially registered aircraft your maintenance will be done by an AMO. You will have to follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule or come up with your own version acceptable to Transport Canada.

So each extra $100 you can squeeze out of your friends will likely cost you $500 to $1000.

How many hours a year are you planning on flying with this OC?
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photofly
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by photofly »

Also - you’ll have to find out what experience TC considers appropriate to accept you as chief pilot on a light twin, and whether you have it. If you’re a retired 705 captain, then I don’t think it’s a problem, but at the other end, it might be.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
photofly
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by photofly »

ahramin wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:10 amYou will also be able to decide what recommended maintenance gets done and what gets deferred.
That's actually a one line job description for the Person Responsible for Maintenance at a commercial operation. The actual work has to be done by an AMO but they don't do *anything* to your airplane without a written instruction from the PRM. So as PRM, you have to make exactly the right calls, according to all regulations, to meet your approved maintenance schedule. In order to be accepted as PRM you have to convince TC that you have the specific knowledge and processes to do this correctly.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
ahramin
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by ahramin »

Yes, both a privately registered aircraft and a commercially registered one will need someone making those decisions. My point was that as the owner of a private aircraft, very little of the maintenance schedule is mandatory. Aside from (off the top of my head) the compass, tach, propeller, transponder, ELT, and altimeter, you can repair or replace everything after it fails. As the PRM of a 703 OC you have to follow the approved maintenance schedule and overhaul or replace on schedule.

A private aircraft must be inspected a minimum of once a year. The same aircraft commercially registered will likely require the same level of inspection every 100 hours plus other stuff every 50 hours, plus 200 hours plus plus plus.
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Heliian
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by Heliian »

headache wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:17 am Thanks guys that's useful.

Sunk, I have no management experience, but some time to learn (thanks covid). I'm on the way to buying a small 310 for myself and my wife, but can't get my head around the fact that I can't bring friends/family/acquaintances in exchange for plane expenses (and a little more).
So while I'm turning my thumbs here, your post seems to confirm I could realistically pass all 3 exams, interview, write an ops manual and absorb some of the plane's expenses. Your two cents: not a crazy idea?

How much more are you insurances vs just private?
I think just getting an OC and manuals approved will cost more than you'll ever make back charging your friends.

Insurance will also be a non-starter for the amount of per seat liability.

And no, it is not a good idea for you at this point. You might be better off trying to find a partner to share expenses with.
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headache
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by headache »

Ok guys you rightly killed my buzz

Now,

“Chisel” charter vs legal one...

Anyone cares to share their experiences?

With friends and family, I don’t see too much of a concern: get a story straight before hand, no emails/texts referring to price and payment, etc...i’m not stupid, I could make an under the table deal once a while...

Some prospects “clients” though are good friends with legitimate business. I know i know, this would make me a scab to legit 703 ops and rookie pilots (spare me the insults, I can flagellate myself thank you), plus just a plain violator of federal law. But there HAS to be some sort of leeway to use your own airplane with friends for other than going for stupid brunch at a rural airport.
How bad is making a “fake bill” from a non airline company with a real tax number, with a dummy service on it, that would serve as payment for a flight? (I understand I’ll get tomatoes thrown at me, but it’s an anonymous forum so please just be as sincere and objective as you can, put yourself in my shoes, and remember We’re still just discussing here...).

And just for added perspective, I'm not talking about 150hrs/year here, more like 30...keep that in mind)
How bad would it be to get caught by tc or cra, would you think just a fine or up to licence suspension?
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ahramin
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Re: 703 one employee?

Post by ahramin »

Requirements for Air Operator Certificate

700.02 (1) No person shall operate an air transport service unless the person holds and complies with the provisions of an air operator certificate that authorizes the person to operate that service.

(2) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), no person shall, unless the person holds and complies with the provisions of an air operator certificate that authorizes the person to do so, operate an aeroplane or helicopter to conduct aerial work involving

(a) the carriage on board of persons other than flight crew members;
Those two carry a $5000 fine each per occurrence. At 30 hours per year divided by 2 hours per leg you're looking at $150 000 in fines per year, just for the low hanging fruit. There are so many other rules you would be breaking that also carry fines that the total is basically unlimited for your purposes.

What would your plan be? Explain to all your passengers that the flight is completely illegal, neither you nor the airplane are qualified for it, but you can take them anyway, issue a fraudulent invoice, and let them make up their own minds as to what their lives are worth? Or would you lie to them and assure them it's the same thing as a legal charter but that the govemi't paper pushers are too much of a hassle? Either way you need to seriously reevaluate your decision making abilities.

Keep in mind that most income tax fraud caught by CRA is through anonymous tips. I imagine it's the same thing for Transport Canada. You might think everyone is your friend and no one will rat you out, but if the vote goes yes for $5 a share you're going to have 3000+ Air Canada pilots trying to get you off their seniority list. The nice Captain you show the picture of your neat plane and mention how you're affording it to may be the one who sinks you. Or the fueller in YHU pissed about being stuck there. Who knows?

At some point in your life you're going to have to learn that it's better and usually easier to be honest and follow the rules, hopefully before it ends in a smoking hole in the ground with innocent people burned to death. I know life sucks right now but if you can maintain your integrity while working through the current crisis you will be far better off in the end.
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