Loading fuel drums in A/C...

Johnny Boy · Post by **Johnny Boy** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:08 am

This is a question for all bush flyers. Do you stand your fuel drums up or down in the airplane? Of course it depends of the type, but it seems to be different every places you go. Everybody seems to have their personnal theory about it. How do you do it?

Johnny BoY

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:04 pm

Why wouldn't you stand them right side up? First I've ever heard other wise.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:36 pm

There is of course, the lazy bastard rationale for layin'n 'em down. Quicker on quicker off.

Sadly, if going to an offstrip location where rough landing abrupt stopping is the norm, the odds are good that the drums are going to wind up where your kidneys used to be.

A different rationaization is that the company doesn't have barrel hooks so that up-right drums are secured both in the horizontal and vertical. This being the case, laying them flat and hercing over the top may be their only alternative.

My preference is for the vertical, in case any of your drums are not sealed. The cabin also looks fuller to the client so as to avoid excessive customer whine, which is harder on the ears than those stupid rolls royce darts on hawkers.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:59 pm

Pratt wrote:Why wouldn't you stand them right side up? First I've ever heard other wise.

Me too. We always stood them up in the Otter, takes up less floor space that way. Leaves more room for hundred-pounders.

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:14 pm

I lost track of how many drums I have flown. But an old grey haired bush pilot once pointed out the differnce of laying drums down to standing them up.

If you remember your loading limitaions for the A/C floor.. they are limited to so many pounds per sq. inch right? Well if you lay a drum on its side, the area of the drum that is contact with the floor is much less than if you were to stand them on end. This could lead to exceeding your floor stress limitations if you start pulling g's (for some silly reason

) But.. (for those of you thinking ahead) if you don't roll them in on their sides aren't you then man handleing the drums on the bottom edge increasing the weight to area ratio on the floor?

It is one of those you are damned if you do and damned if you don't kinda things.

I came to the conclusion that you roll them in and then stand em up'. That way you don't bust you back too much and you still keep the boss' plane in some what a respectable shape. This all depends on where you can secure your load by too. But that is something to talk to your Mntnc Department about.

Have fun...

Adanac

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:54 am

I've flown them both ways. Never (knock wood) had a problem either way. A lot depends on what you have to secure them to. We used to lay some down simply because we didn't have the hard ponts on the wall. In that case, place a 2x4 under each side to discourage roll, and use two straps per drum, securing for and aft. Standing drums should each get their own strap, then we'd place an extra strap around each group of three drums..just that little extra insurance. Either way you go...and they both work, the trick is to really secure the pricks! Because you DONT want them in the cockpit!
BTW, the best airplane in the world for drums is the "Racer"...it's all downhill for the unload...DUH!
Just a couple of notes on drums....they're the best load there is. Fast turns on both ends. Use good herc straps. Some can get pretty ratty, and should be tossed...toss 'em. Dont forget the tire. Wear heavy gloves to prevent catching "meat-hooks" on the drum bases, and wear steel toes! And always carry a bung wrench!

Johnny Boy · Post by **Johnny Boy** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:16 am

I see lots of old bushy flying otters with their drums lying down. It is easier of course for handling, but harder to tie down safely. I personnaly prefer to stand them up in the Otter against the wall and tied down with a herc.

The floor limitation is another good point. I think it's probably better to roll them in on their side and them stand them up like you said Adanac. When they are standing up, It seems to me they are tied down tight enough they wouldn't fly around in an accident. I don't know if anybody ever had or heard any stories about this matter. Is it different in a twin Beech or Caravan?

Thanks for all the replies...

Johnny Boy

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:29 am

I remember a winter fuel haul from about 30 years ago. We were hauling fuel out of the airport at LG2 and taking it in to a diamond drill camp about 25 miles north. We had a Douglas Racer and the other aircraft was a Fectou Otter. We took 12 drums and he took 6 on every lift. He could land very close to the fuel cash at both ends and we had to taxi back after every landing. At the end of a very long day that Otter had lifted as many drums as the 3 into that camp. I was amazed to say the least.
Of course an Otter on skis is very easy to unload too.
We left the drums lying down and used chock blocks and ropes on every drum the Otter crew did too.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:23 am

A little more on the Lazy Bastard method of fuel haulling.

I came to the conclusion that you roll them in and then stand em up'. That way you don't bust you back too much and you still keep the boss' plane in some what a respectable shape.

I'm too lazy to want to explain to my boss why the floor got wrecked. So I avoid it by laying a piece of plywood down before the drums go in. At least on an airplane that doesn't have an STCed decktread floor
I'm too lazy to want to bust my toes by trying to roll a vertical drum, on its edge. So they go flat on the floor until they are rolled to where I want them.
I'm too lazy to want to Bugger up my back by standing drums up by hand... being old and all. So I use a Barrel lifter, which permits 75 lb FO's to stand up drums

flynfiddle · Post by **flynfiddle** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:02 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz sleepy

. . · Post by **. .** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 pm

A drum lifter eh? never seen one, what do they look like?

If you end up putting the drums on their sides when you chalk them slam the chalks in really tight. Once the chalks are in tight put a ring flush agaisnt the chalk to prevent it from slipping back. As mentioned before I too like flying with them vertical.

red003 · Post by **red003** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:40 am

Regruntled, Drag Eraser....tell us how it's done.

Full Fine · Post by **Full Fine** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:46 pm

Johnny boy, load the drums as Capt Frank has instructed

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:35 pm

i was gonna add that i thought it was a reg that they had to be standing, then i remembered that was for propane...

no choice there!

Spaceship 2 · Post by **Spaceship 2** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:41 pm

I always strive for the best of both worlds:

Safe and secure, yet quick and effortless to load.

I find I can achieve this by rolling them all in and positioning them flush against the forward bulkhead (if the bulkhead is weak or non-existent then use two herc-straps in place of). Then with the drums lying down, experiment with each drum either lying lengthwise in the middle of the cabin or horizontal, untill you achieve a C of G that is acceptable. The clincher is that the second last drum must be horizontal. Then the final drum is stood up, and double herc-strapped towards the front. This compresses all the drums between the front bulkhead and the last standing drum. Plus you only have to stand the last one up. Quick and easy, and safe. For bonus points, when double hercing the last drum, make sure you attach each herc strap to separate tie down lines. Thus ensuring redundancey, should a rough off-strip landing actually pull out some of your tie down points.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:20 am

Flown them both ways, when lying down they're chocked with triangular pieces of wood and Herc'd in two directions. When standing up, either with barrell hooks or Herc'd over the top and then around the barrell so they don't move laterally.

As for 200lb propane, probably flown close to a thousand of those over the years and not one in an a/c where I could stand it up, same for acetylene, and O2. Just don't leave them that way for hours in the sun... Never had any issues there as the standing up rule is only so the relief valve is not covered by the liquid inside - quickly in, quickly out. Usually open the valve for a second or two before loading to bleed some pressure, but other than that, no special treatment.

I'd love to hear what some of you guys would do with things like the cutting edge for a D-11 CAT, each piece is about 400-450lbs, generally rectangular in shape, and about three feet long by two feet wide and 3 inches thick... While you're at it, quarters of moose meat are a fun little exercise as well, took a Beech 18 out of the sky a few years ago in Yukon, killed all on board - improperly secured and slid to the rear on t/o.

cougarhunter · Post by **cougarhunter** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:12 pm

If you a Beaver driver, be careful if you place then upright. Slamming them down on the floor will crack the belly tanks. A leaky tank is no fun and your boss will be seeing red when the maintenance bill comes in.

Loading fuel drums in A/C...

Loading fuel drums in A/C...

Both ways