First Air

[flying_dutchman]

Looking for info on the turboprop side of first air's ops. Do they hire low timers for ramp entry? What is their pay range?

[Just another canuck]

They have a big chart on their website of their time requirements. I don't think they normally hire low timers for anything though, unless you really know some people there. 1500 TT is the probably the lowest amount of time they'll take for an ATR or Hawker FO... I think the website might even say more. Pay, I know it's above average but not sure exactly.

[Embraer190]

They have a big chart on their website of their time requirements. I don't think they normally hire low timers for anything though, unless you really know some people there. 1500 TT is the probably the lowest amount of time they'll take for an ATR or Hawker FO... I think the website might even say more. Pay, I know it's above average but not sure exactly.

I have an inside source that tells me they've been hiring people with as little as 750 hours. Crappy airplanes though.

[Changes in Latitudes]

I have an inside source that tells me they've been hiring people with as little as 750 hours. Crappy airplanes though.

Which one is the crappy one, just so I am aware.

[Just another canuck]

Which one is the crappy one, just so I am aware.

Yeah I always though Herc's, ATR's, 737's and 727's were nice airplanes. Maybe he's referring to the Hawker in YFB, but I also think that qualifies as as a nice airplane.

[kilpicki]

A 748 is a Nice aircraft? Hmmm can;t say Ive heard it called that before, exactly who were you talking to?

Its been called lots of things but NICE. Have a nice day.

[Just another canuck]

Well, it does a better job than the ATR goin into Qik and Pang... or going out I should say. They can take over 10,000 pounds. Wasaya's were gutted and capable of 12-13. Guess "nice" wasn't the right word but it's certainly more appropriate than "crappy".

kilpicki, have you ever flown one? or been in one?

I like 'em.

Oh, by the way, I said "I think it qualifies as a nice airplane". That's called an opinion. I wasn't talking to anybody.

[HuD 91gt]

What airport is Qik? Did a quick search on Pang and that looks like ass clenching fun :p under 3000'

[Just another canuck]

Qikiqtarjuak ... on the east side of Baffin as well.

[Embraer190]

Yeah I always though Herc's, ATR's, 737's and 727's were nice airplanes. Maybe he's referring to the Hawker in YFB, but I also think that qualifies as as a nice airplane.

Yes, I was refering to the Hawker above all.

[Just another canuck]

Yes, I was refering to the Hawker above all.

Well it's noisy and has no reverse, but it still serves a good purpose.

[Changes in Latitudes]

Yeah I always though Herc's, ATR's, 737's and 727's were nice airplanes. Maybe he's referring to the Hawker in YFB, but I also think that qualifies as as a nice airplane.

Yes, I was refering to the Hawker above all.

Most Eunuchs say that...what's missing in your life?

Crappy airplanes though.

So one out of 19, doesn't get your covetted seal of approval? I'm going to need more information.

[Fatass]

I've got some time on FNW ( The Hawker ). As far as Hawkers go, it's a nice Hawker.

[Liquid Charlie]

I flew a hawker -- once

[Embraer190]

My father was a pilot at First Air for over 2 decades before he made the move to Air Canada... it takes a lot of guts to leave a Captain position making over $100k a year to going on fixed pay on an embraer, don't you think? He had his reasons. He was heavily involved in FAPA and fought hard against First Air's unsafe practices during arbitration. He's been on all the planes and was a Captain on the Hawker, ATR and even B727 at different times during his First Air career. He always had stories to tell about First Air's questionable practices. Many things weren't even necessarily aircraft/maintenance related, lots of what he disliked had to do management practices, such as their flawed management bonus system. After he left there was a lot of management restructuring, so First Air is probably better now... who knows. They're also supposed to be getting a B767, which they've been putting off for the last decade.

All I can say about the maintenance part of operations is that many pilots were very diligent when reporting aircraft problems, but usually repairs would not happens until aircraft were forced to be grounded because of them.

I'm sure 7F isn't the only company with questionable practices, but it's all subjective. Maybe for someone who's been flying deeper in the bush, First Air's policies and planes aren't so bad, it all depends. For my Dad, they were... which is why he's no longer there.

At the end of the day, when all is said and done, it's your choice.

Cheers,
EMJ190

[HuD 91gt]

My father was a pilot at First Air for over 2 decades before he made the move to Air Canada... it takes a lot of guts to leave a Captain position making over $100k a year to going on fixed pay on an embraer, don't you think? He had his reasons. He was heavily involved in FAPA and fought hard against First Air's unsafe practices during arbitration. He's been on all the planes and was a Captain on the Hawker, ATR and even B727 at different times during his First Air career. He always had stories to tell about First Air's questionable practices. Many things weren't even necessarily aircraft/maintenance related, lots of what he disliked had to do management practices, such as their flawed management bonus system. After he left there was a lot of management restructuring, so First Air is probably better now... who knows. They're also supposed to be getting a B767, which they've been putting off for the last decade.

All I can say about the maintenance part of operations is that many pilots were very diligent when reporting aircraft problems, but usually repairs would not happens until aircraft were forced to be grounded because of them.

I'm sure 7F isn't the only company with questionable practices, but it's all subjective. Maybe for someone who's been flying deeper in the bush, First Air's policies and planes aren't so bad, it all depends. For my Dad, they were... which is why he's no longer there.

At the end of the day, when all is said and done, it's your choice.

Cheers,
EMJ190

This post may not be 100% coherent, but I understand what you are saying. I am not part of the First Air Team, nor have I ever been. But if you have ever experienced the less travelled parts of the world you will realize that all regulations do not make sense. If your father has been employed by First Air for two decades, I assume he has been a Captain a majority of the time. First Air is backed by a union which supports the pilots 100%. It is ultimatly the pilot decision to go/not go in any situation, and I can assume the union would support his/her decision in any case. If your father had any feelings of regret/negativity he should have left long ago. It takes alot for a person to stay 20 years, some must be good. My ow personal opinion ofcourse... After a X-mas Dinner :p

[Embraer190]

This post may not be 100% coherent, but I understand what you are saying. I am not part of the First Air Team, nor have I ever been. But if you have ever experienced the less travelled parts of the world you will realize that all regulations do not make sense. If your father has been employed by First Air for two decades, I assume he has been a Captain a majority of the time. First Air is backed by a union which supports the pilots 100%. It is ultimatly the pilot decision to go/not go in any situation, and I can assume the union would support his/her decision in any case. If your father had any feelings of regret/negativity he should have left long ago. It takes alot for a person to stay 20 years, some must be good. My ow personal opinion ofcourse... After a X-mas Dinner :p

I think his favourite part was having a base in YOW

At least the compensation is good... I hate all these little companies that exploit the hell out of their pilots for proverty wages, even if they are for building time.

[Just another canuck]

I can honestly say that I've never heard one bad thing from a First Air pilot... I mean there's always the bitching that all us pilots do. But all the guys I know that work there have nothing but good things to say. This is of course is very recent information and things may not always have been that way.

[Changes in Latitudes]

I can honestly say that I've never heard one bad thing from a First Air pilot... I mean there's always the bitching that all us pilots do. But all the guys I know that work there have nothing but good things to say. This is of course is very recent information and things may not always have been that way.

Agreed...

Sounds like daddy came home bitching a few days after being up north and now junior is telling us the second hand story.

After he left there was a lot of management restructuring, so First Air is probably better now... who knows.

Perhaps some recent facts might assist everyone and avoiding the "who knows" after your points might assist you in some coherence . Yes, there has been some management changes in the last few years and things have been good. Perhaps it was due to the work of your father with FAPA which is now ALPA? I couldn't know, because you didn't say anything about that, all you did was slag the company with expired disinformation.

Getting back on track, First Air offers an outstanding benefits/travel package, above average pay, great maintenance, good schedule, and great people to work with in a challenging environment. As far as safety goes, I feel there is a strong committment to safety at all levels or else I would be out of there in two weeks, not two decades.

And to address the original post, pilots typically are not hired from the ramp and 1500 hours is a competitve number right now. Keep applying if you are interested though.

[ettw]

Back in the Twin Otter days I would have said that getting hired on from one of the other arms of the company was a good angle but these days with only transport catagory aircraft they generally want to hire higher time pilots. That being said I know one of our ATR capts got on the ATR with something like 700 hrs BUT he had done a year or two as SO on the 727 AND is one REALLY sharp cookie.

I think you would need some good, RELEVENT time to make a go of the ATR. Its in the company's best interest to hire those candidates who are most likely to succede in the training program.

Just my opinion but I've only been here for less than a year.

Cheers,

ETTW

PS....despite the lack of reverse on the hawker it really doesnt need it due to its low approach speeds. It's a blast to fly