The Beaver at Air-Hart Avation in Kelowna will be available for the months of April and most of May, then it is off working for the summer. It will return in October and be avalable throughout the winter at Kelowna for training through to the middle of May 2006. This Beaver is well equiped with some of the advanced mods on it. A real joy to fly. It can be booked in 5 hr block time segments, as many as desired. Cost will be 500 dollors per hour. It may also be incorporated into a 50 hr course with a couple of other planes to give an opportunity to train on different aircraft types. ex; 35 hrs 172XP, 10 hrs 180; 5hrs Beaver. Talk to Trevor at Air Hart Avation in Kelowna about upgrading or recurrent training.
Good flying to all
C-GUJV
DHC 2 training in Kelowna
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore, Rudder Bug
DHC 2 training in Kelowna
Last edited by C-GUJV on Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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O.k. I seem to be missing something here GUJV so please help me understand this buying time in a Beaver.
I have already opined that the Beaver is probably the easiest float plane to fly used in commercial opeartions, also very few companies hire direct on to the Beaver if the pilot does not have considerable float plane time already.
Here were my thoughts on the Beaver and I stand by them.
"Anyone with 500 hours on a 185 would only need about one hour on a Beaver for a check out.
There just ain't nothing on earth on floats as easy to fly as a Beaver.
Cat "
When starting with a company operating a Beaver their Ops Manual will outling a minimum training program, most will probably have 2 hours initial training, if the candidate can not grasp how to fly a Beaver in 2 hours I doubt any operator would want to hire them or turn them lose without further training.
What this industry needs is someone to offer bush pilot training on something inexpensive to operate and teach pilots the skills needed to fly for a bush operation, the best float plane for this would be a Piper PA 11 on Edo 1400's, but of course that is only my opinion.
Cat
I have already opined that the Beaver is probably the easiest float plane to fly used in commercial opeartions, also very few companies hire direct on to the Beaver if the pilot does not have considerable float plane time already.
Here were my thoughts on the Beaver and I stand by them.
"Anyone with 500 hours on a 185 would only need about one hour on a Beaver for a check out.
There just ain't nothing on earth on floats as easy to fly as a Beaver.
Cat "
When starting with a company operating a Beaver their Ops Manual will outling a minimum training program, most will probably have 2 hours initial training, if the candidate can not grasp how to fly a Beaver in 2 hours I doubt any operator would want to hire them or turn them lose without further training.
What this industry needs is someone to offer bush pilot training on something inexpensive to operate and teach pilots the skills needed to fly for a bush operation, the best float plane for this would be a Piper PA 11 on Edo 1400's, but of course that is only my opinion.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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shimmydampner
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What a money grab. Cat's absolutely right, why would anyone need or want to buy Beaver time at $500 an hour when you could get a job on a 180/185 for a summer or two, make money instead of pay through the nose and accomplish the same thing and still be more likely to get a Beaver job? If you want to learn floats, learn on something that's inexpensive and will teach you what you need to know and is a challenge to your skills, like Cat said.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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There is of course a very good reason for a FTU to have a Beaver avaliable for training and that is to bring in customers with the money to fly it...there are thousands of such customers in Europe who would love to have the fun of flying a Beaver.
So hopefully Airhart will do well with the Beaver.
Cat
So hopefully Airhart will do well with the Beaver.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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water wings
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a few threads on here about this Beaver stuff... i really don't see anything bad with taking a bush course if it contains a bit of DHC-2 time in it. The more types, the better, i think. If an hour or 2 was available when i started, i would have gone for it, for sure...
GeorgianBay Airways puts an hour or 2 of Beaver time in their program as well. It's not like buying a PPC, it's buying a taste of what a year or 2 on a 185 MIGHT get you...The bush course tuition is pricy anyway, but worth it.
The last couple of float job posts do ask for a minimum of 1000 float, with 500 on type for Beaver or Otter, so 5 hours isn't going to get you hired, but it may make the insurance weasels happier (definetely one i know of)...BUT by the time you get on a Beaver, youv'e gone at least a year without flying one...but then you go a year or 2 on the dock without flying a Cessna, either...hmmm..
I think it's great that a variety of planes are being offered for training. I think everyone should train on as many types as possible, from Cub, Champ to 185...fly 'em all.
AirHArt has a great reputation, and i'm sure they will keep it up with the Beaver training, too.
GeorgianBay Airways puts an hour or 2 of Beaver time in their program as well. It's not like buying a PPC, it's buying a taste of what a year or 2 on a 185 MIGHT get you...The bush course tuition is pricy anyway, but worth it.
The last couple of float job posts do ask for a minimum of 1000 float, with 500 on type for Beaver or Otter, so 5 hours isn't going to get you hired, but it may make the insurance weasels happier (definetely one i know of)...BUT by the time you get on a Beaver, youv'e gone at least a year without flying one...but then you go a year or 2 on the dock without flying a Cessna, either...hmmm..
I think it's great that a variety of planes are being offered for training. I think everyone should train on as many types as possible, from Cub, Champ to 185...fly 'em all.
AirHArt has a great reputation, and i'm sure they will keep it up with the Beaver training, too.
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maDDtraPPer
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Give Me a Break
First of all you have to have a pretty rich daddy to buy enough hours in a Beaver to get you by an operators insurance policy, 5 hours is usless, save your money and get 25 hours on a cub or 170. You need to learn how to get a plane off the water, thats whats important. The less power the better for practice in my opinion.
Airharts reputation? I checked a guy out who came from this 50 hour "Bush Course" and most of his time was spent flying around. He needed some serious glassy water work and really didn't know how to get an airplane off the water if there was no wind or any kind of a load. The funniest thing in the world was the airplane wouldn't start and he asked what we should do. I said well get out and paddle the damn thing. 50 hours of training in a so called bush pilot course and this guy never paddled a float plane before!!!
The bottom line is these guys are all the same, they are "Dream Merchants" selling a dream to who ever has the money.
For those people who don't have the money there is the reality of hard work on the dock for a good company, and you be in a Beaver in a few years.
Airharts reputation? I checked a guy out who came from this 50 hour "Bush Course" and most of his time was spent flying around. He needed some serious glassy water work and really didn't know how to get an airplane off the water if there was no wind or any kind of a load. The funniest thing in the world was the airplane wouldn't start and he asked what we should do. I said well get out and paddle the damn thing. 50 hours of training in a so called bush pilot course and this guy never paddled a float plane before!!!
The bottom line is these guys are all the same, they are "Dream Merchants" selling a dream to who ever has the money.
For those people who don't have the money there is the reality of hard work on the dock for a good company, and you be in a Beaver in a few years.
Well okay, of all the "expert" opinions here, I am about to complete my Commercial Pilot training.
For the best chance to land a job with only 200 hours, what should I do, should I invest some money in a bush/float course, or should I get my multi rating/multi IFR?
Are their even companies out there that hire pilots with only 200 hours?
Cheers,
Andreas
For the best chance to land a job with only 200 hours, what should I do, should I invest some money in a bush/float course, or should I get my multi rating/multi IFR?
Are their even companies out there that hire pilots with only 200 hours?
Cheers,
Andreas
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water wings
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trapper...that's too bad about that guy. AirHart would no doubt be dissapointed. Generally his results are good, and i got my first float job because i did my training there... but i guess you have to have common sense to succeed in anything... that pilot you checked may have been in the same "lost" state of mind in a boat should it have stopped on him...too bad...
AH79ca;
I would think about what you want to do in the long run.
Do you want to fly floats or twins?
Where your heart is should also be where your money goes. If you want your money to go as far as possible, i wouldn't spend money on a few hours Beaver...but i would never turn down an opportunity to fly as many types as possible...if an hour or 2 were included in a bush course, then fine...as you can tell from a few threads here, float flying minimum requirements are on the rise and 2 hours DHC-2 won't help you out.
There are companies that do hire guys with 200 hours, and give a chance to move up to right seat twin; in that case you will need your multi IFR. You will also find that you can do your Multi IFR in less cash as the 50 hour bush course as long as you study and wrap your brain around the IFR procedures before getting into the airplane. (sim )
Where do you want to be in 5 years? do what will best assist you to get there.
good luck, fly safe
[quote="Brew"] Georgianbayairways and bush flying should not be used in the same sentence hmmm. not the first time i've heard that....
AH79ca;
I would think about what you want to do in the long run.
Do you want to fly floats or twins?
Where your heart is should also be where your money goes. If you want your money to go as far as possible, i wouldn't spend money on a few hours Beaver...but i would never turn down an opportunity to fly as many types as possible...if an hour or 2 were included in a bush course, then fine...as you can tell from a few threads here, float flying minimum requirements are on the rise and 2 hours DHC-2 won't help you out.
There are companies that do hire guys with 200 hours, and give a chance to move up to right seat twin; in that case you will need your multi IFR. You will also find that you can do your Multi IFR in less cash as the 50 hour bush course as long as you study and wrap your brain around the IFR procedures before getting into the airplane. (sim )
Where do you want to be in 5 years? do what will best assist you to get there.
good luck, fly safe
[quote="Brew"] Georgianbayairways and bush flying should not be used in the same sentence hmmm. not the first time i've heard that....
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NorthernDuck
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I've got mixed feelings on this topic, both with buying Beaver time and those offered "Bush" courses.
I agree with Water Wings. If your heart is into the float flying thing and you have the money to spare, go for it. A little bit on this machine, and little bit on that, it all chocks up to experience, even if it is just the tip of the iceberg and there is much more to learn. Still gives you a taste of what's to come.
Now with these "Bush" courses, I admit I've never taken one, but I too have seen guys come out of them and still have no clue to actual "bush" operating. In my opinion, I good idea to get a check out on floats, but only just barely getting into the bush flying. Depending where you are and where you get hired on, I do know some companies out there who give the guys off the dock a float check out when they get promoted to their first flying job. Saves them a bit of cash.
Just my two cents.
I agree with Water Wings. If your heart is into the float flying thing and you have the money to spare, go for it. A little bit on this machine, and little bit on that, it all chocks up to experience, even if it is just the tip of the iceberg and there is much more to learn. Still gives you a taste of what's to come.
Now with these "Bush" courses, I admit I've never taken one, but I too have seen guys come out of them and still have no clue to actual "bush" operating. In my opinion, I good idea to get a check out on floats, but only just barely getting into the bush flying. Depending where you are and where you get hired on, I do know some companies out there who give the guys off the dock a float check out when they get promoted to their first flying job. Saves them a bit of cash.
Just my two cents.
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Crazed Windscreen
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You could take 100 bush flying course and it still will not equal time flying the line and having to make all the calls yourself!
1. Get 10 hours on anything that has floats
2. Find the operater that best suits your needs for your future.
3. Bug the sh*t out of them untill they give you a job...any job!
No one is going to let someone with 200 hours fly anything untill the know what your like.
And if they are going to cut you loose right away, you don't want to work for them. Because the obviously don't care who there clients are flying with. And care even less about who is flying them.
As for what airplane is easier to fly than an other...who cares when they are in the air. Physics applies to all of them the same way.
Where your really going to screw things up as a new float pilot is on or near the water.
If the float training your doing spends more time doing circuits and cross country flying, then step taxiing, docking and sailing, there is something wrong
Later
1. Get 10 hours on anything that has floats
2. Find the operater that best suits your needs for your future.
3. Bug the sh*t out of them untill they give you a job...any job!
No one is going to let someone with 200 hours fly anything untill the know what your like.
And if they are going to cut you loose right away, you don't want to work for them. Because the obviously don't care who there clients are flying with. And care even less about who is flying them.
As for what airplane is easier to fly than an other...who cares when they are in the air. Physics applies to all of them the same way.
Where your really going to screw things up as a new float pilot is on or near the water.
If the float training your doing spends more time doing circuits and cross country flying, then step taxiing, docking and sailing, there is something wrong
Later
Ditto for me Cat!
I have always said they should start the new guys out on the Beavers and when they get enough time and experience move them to the 185's.
IMHO buying Beaver time is an absolute waste of money and time for any fledgling pilot. These so called bush courses are also a waste of time and money.
Find a private guy with a small float plane, get to know him, wave a cheque in his face or pay whatever he wants to get the hours you need and fly the shit out of it. Find a commercial guy who is willing to teach you what you need to know, pay him some bucks and pick his brain apart. You will end up with at least twice the hours as the so called Advanced Bush Course will give you and probably for a lot less money. It won't get any cheaper than that!!
I have always said they should start the new guys out on the Beavers and when they get enough time and experience move them to the 185's.
IMHO buying Beaver time is an absolute waste of money and time for any fledgling pilot. These so called bush courses are also a waste of time and money.
Find a private guy with a small float plane, get to know him, wave a cheque in his face or pay whatever he wants to get the hours you need and fly the shit out of it. Find a commercial guy who is willing to teach you what you need to know, pay him some bucks and pick his brain apart. You will end up with at least twice the hours as the so called Advanced Bush Course will give you and probably for a lot less money. It won't get any cheaper than that!!
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
I am currently finishing my CPL with Air-Hart Aviation. I did 100 hr. build-up on the C-172Xp I incorporated the 50 hr bush course the mountain course. Lots of upper lake practice. Small lakes high density/ altitude stuff, great experience. I believe training on the smaller planes, whatever, is the best bang for your buck. It's not cheap but like I said prob the best bang for your flaot training buck. The 172XP solo's at 172$ and hour. Some days you really have to work hard to get that XP off the water and fly best angle to just clear the trees. The training is world class, and the variety of different terrain and conditions year around is phenominal. Now, about this Beaver time, I am horny about flying a beaver and if i had ANY extra cash that I could beg, borrow or steal then ,yeah I would go for the checkout. But it will come with time and i do not regret one hour i spent flying the shit out of that 172XP. Now i need to find a job so I can pay it all back.
I think the 50 hour float course offered by airhart is a good course.Over the years I hired 3 of his pilots and they all had the basics,just had to spend another 10 or so hours with them befor cutting them loose.As far as beaver checkout,it"s a completr waste of money.If you must spend the dads money,get some more xp time
Wburns no doubt you are pretty excited about the Beaver. Every guy that flies it for the first time is exactly the same but remember it is just an airplane. As pumped as you are save your money because once you start flying it you will quickly realize that it is slow, hot and noisy and in know time you will be looking across the dock at the next biggest one.
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
Well while your we're on the topic of float training and "bush courses". The only kind of flying I'm really interested in is float flying; period. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm a AME with Kelowna Flightcraft and I've jump seated around with these guys in the big birds, but it just doesn't seem like flying too me. So anyway i spent the money and did my build-up on floats. A 100 hours in total float time, yeah you could call it a bush course or whatever. Nobody is too stoked on these bush courses though?? I trained at Air-Hart and I think that I have a fairly good grip on the basics. In total about 30 hours dual and 70 hrs solo practicing all the tecniques I'd learned, ie step-taxiing, short field take-off and landings.... and In no way am I a pro, but I'm ready to learn. So why knock these bush courses?? The way Air-Harts is set up, is to give you the basics in as many conditions as possible. If your goal is to fly floats anyway I don't think there is a better way to do your buildup. Anyway, rambling on, I'm just wrapping up my CPL and looking to go just about anywhere to get that first float job. As an AME i hope i'll have a bit of advantage over the next 200 hr guy but I'm ready to put my time in wrenching on a dock or throwing bags, whatever...... I guess i'm just looking for some suggestions or advice from those higher time guys out there. Come next spring I'll be knocking on doors........
And if your advice is anything like go back to school and get a real job forget it, I'm stuck in this racket for life.
And if your advice is anything like go back to school and get a real job forget it, I'm stuck in this racket for life.
Cheapest way to build float time: Buy a cheap floatplane (like a homebuilt) and fly as much as you can. Than sell it and you'll recoup your initial investment. Even better: figure this out before you start your commercial and do your commercial on your own float plane. Checkout ebay or barnstormers for good deals.
