Why Transport doesn't like externals

[Charioteer]

I feel compelled to submit this picture I found on West Caribou Air's website entittled " freight". I wonder what the flight characteristics are on that tank. Is that tank double walled or single. At least it's tied to the right side...I guess. I showed this picture to people who aren't pilots and they even felt it is quite ridiculous. I enjoy how the date is displayed in the corner so we all know when it was flown. Looking up the environment canada historical weather data for that day I hope they did it early in the morning when it was cool instead of late morn when it was 20C out. Judging by the picture it looks about noonish though. I also get a kick out of;
The Norseman is the only aircraft that can take an external load i.e. (boat/canoe) plus passengers to my knowledge because it is the only aircraft that has a manufacturer built and approved boat rack. Any other airplane is out of the loop because of Transport Canada regulations, which become even more restrictive December 2005. Now the plane has limits, but to give you some insight; 1) we have some lakes with baots already on them, 2) one occasion this fall we flew 7 small moose hunter Indians and 2 canoes plus gear, 3) WE ARE IN THE PROCESS of acquiring more commercial boat cache lakes, 4) we can make use of collapsible boats, 5) for speckeled trout river fishing, all you need is a pair of waders...ect...ect...

That's straight off the website...7 small moose hunter Indians, 2 canoes AND GEAR...WOW. That's quite the machine. Must have been a true Norseman day, cold and windy. Are you kidding me guys. How about 4 large Italian moose hunters, one 14' lund and gear or 8 pakistinians, 2 small cows and a goat.
Gee, I wonder why BWP ended up a few meters away from hazelwood drive in Thunder bay awhile ago. The CADORS say the pilot called low fuel and the RCMP say that there was a large area of fuel around the crash. Doesn't make sense. I'm just glad that there was only minor injuries...this time. I don't blame the pilot as much as I blame the organization for lack of leadership. How about the pic of the downwind buzz job entittled norseman wing over, wing over what, the two guys in the foreground or that pole. I think these guys make us all look bad who actually care about doing a good, safe and effective job.
END RANT.

[mcfaulds]

Who is this post from "ShedAnoutherTear??? Go cry on your mommies shoulder not here!!

[Charioteer]

nice response cowboy. This is the kind of thing young aviators need to avoid. There has been an increasing number of accidents in the bush due to stupidity. Are you really trying to say that this is an acceptable external? Let me guess, you fly a Norseman and you think it can do it all, do you run Military rating to get it off the water or do you even know what that means.

[HS-748 2A]

Is that tank double walled or single.(?)

Clearly single-walled.

I showed this picture to people who aren't pilots and they even felt it is quite ridiculous.

Right, so what is your point there?

Maybe you should have shown it around the Lakeview.

'48

[Charioteer]

Man, tuff crowd out here. Double or single walled was a jab bud. Hey is that Mcfaulds handle as in Mcfaulds lake as in Plantenix where WCA is doing a little bipping around. Is that where BWP was coming from? Hell I've done longer jags then that in 185.

And where is the Lakeview? Sounds like a fun place.

[Bushav8er]

The Norseman is the only aircraft that can take an external load i.e. (boat/canoe) plus passengers to my knowledge because it is the only aircraft that has a manufacturer built and approved boat rack.

Not true, others are approved to but that has nothing to due with allowing any loads. You have to check the Type Certificate and see what is spelled out as allowed on the racks. It often lists the max size, length, weight etc and I`ve never seen one that allows tanks, fridges, snowmobiles etc.

Even if an `odd`load is allowed, I`m pretty certain that tying off to a strut isn`t.

Here is a TC (pfd) for a Norseman Mk. V, see Equipment 4, Canoe rack -
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/applicatio ... num=640002

If the rack used is under another STC you have to search and check the conditions it has on it.

The DHC2 has more in its TC and includes lumber of certain lenght and type for example.

In the case presented, if the load rack used is the one listed under the TC, carrying a tank as shown would make the C.of A. invalid and cancel insurance. Bottom line - know what you are dealing with before risking your license and neck.

[Dr. Mcillicuddy]

Looking at the pics, The approved external racks are not installed. What then ? dm

[xsbank]

Skin
Tin
Ticket

(where is Hedley?)

[ettw]

Well next to that post with the pic of a Beaver with a 4 wheeler on the rack, this is the craziest thing I've seen. FULL DISCLOSURE...on the scale of things, I have very few hours of float time.

That being said, it appears to me that the ropes tying off to the stuts are just loose ends but I wonder what sort of load is imposed on the strut by the drum being wedged in by the black herc staps to the floats and over the top.

And this was on a website?

Cheers,

ETTW

[Dr. Mcillicuddy]

Been a while but I seem to remember the nordyn rack attaches to both struts and the float in kind of vertical way??? dm

[beaverbob]

Go Ahead Boys, Flame away

[tcraft]

Charioteer what`s your point? The external load issue is just another Transport Canada witch hunt. Aircraft ,including the Norseman have been flying external loads since the dawn of Canadain Aviation.

[wabano]

TC approve your operation manual, where you'll have detailed all the what not of
lashing stuff to your plane...same thing goes in the US, in principle...
Fact, it's worse down there as different regions have different standards.
I'd fully expect a POI(principal Operation Inspector)in the south to nix everything
while the Alaskans, contemptuous of everything Lower 49, will approve of whatever does not kill you.

You think TC is bad? I remember landing in Cleveland and getting assaulted by a flock of suits
taking the plane apart to find default on anything from Detroit!

[Check Pilot]

tcraft,

TC witch hunt? Where'd you get that from?

TC doesn't give a rat's ass about external loads anymore.

Before you spout off about it, maybe do some checking around, rookie.
Fly it and then carry what you want, but don't kill anyone is now the modern day credo.

[CLguy]

All the pics posted so far are just a "day in the life" of a bushpilot as far as I remember. I certainly haven't seen anything posted out of the ordinary yet. Of course I can see why all the posters who have never lived a "day in the life" would be shocked and appauled but like they say, until you have walked a mile or in this case flown a mile in their shoes.........

How do you suppose all those remote wilderness resorts with all the amenities, outpost cabins, boats etc. arrived at their present locations??

[302sc]

way back .......when I was flying c-180 in NWO we used to take 14 foot lund boats on the side of c-180 and various canoe brands, but the worst external load to my humble opinion for turbulence was to strap big moose rack to the side , any one newbie having flown moose antlers have an opinion on that particular subjet,

[CLguy]

I agree but for me the worst ever was an 18' Fiberglass Bass Boat with all the bells and whistles strapped under a Beech 18. No doubt it was a one way trip and as far as I know the boat is still at the lake I dropped it off at unless they portaged it out of there.

[niss]

Worse experience was when I strapped a moose to the port wing, a 17' fiberglass canoe to the starboard, 6 pakistani guys in the back, 3 natives in the front, and 4 italian guys up top, c/w all their fishing/hunting gear.

The cherokee did not want to get off the ground, but no airplane says no to me.

[Widow]

Two previous threads worth a glance:

External loads on private aircraft
External loads

See also this TSB report on an external load accident, including a list of other accidents with external loads. http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 3w0210.asp

[Charioteer]

I guess for some I wasn't clear enough on my intentions of why I started this post so here it is to beat an otherwise dead horse. what I was trying to get at is, just like any arse can fly VFR in IMC when everything is running right, any arse can strap some ungastly load to his float and get airborne when everything is running right. That's not the point, the point is are you slick enough to run through an emergency procedure while your in it or have it strapped to your float, prop govenor failure, electrical or engine fire. Statisticly low but it happens so why put yourself there. I'm not against externals, sometimes there so sweet you don't even know they are there. But there is a limit to everything and it's called the "old days" for a reason. Bush flying is so much of a revolving door, it's a place to build time and move on for so many and it's not possible to be a knowledgable bush pilot in only a few seasons. i just hate seeing float plane accidents when they are avoidable. I hate seeing young brothers and sisters who are in vulnerable positions being taken advantage of. This is my last post on the subject. Thanks to the people who listened and good luck to the ones who view me as a loser. I can take that. I will be in the bush as long as I can retain a medical, the four winds willing. I hope to meet all of you one day.