Another Beaver Mod Question

[Beaver Driver]

I'm wondering about two Beaver Mods in particular.

1) The three bladed Mac Prop, I've heard the climb performance is not as good as with the 2 blade Hamilton

2) 5600 lb Upgross kit. How does the Beaver perform @ 5600 lbs?

[CFMartin]

Be prepared to have longer laker and good climb-out areas for the 5600 upgross- although the handling of the airplane up to "climb flaps" is no different, the climb rate sure is.

The three bladed prop is very much a performance killer in all aspects.

[HS-748 2A]

The three bladed prop is very much a performance killer in all aspects.

True - advantages are less noise, less water damage to the prop and fewer cowling repairs.

[Rowdy]

the HA machines have the three bladers for one reason only. Noise.

[HS-748 2A]

the HA machines have the three bladers for one reason only. Noise.

Right. That's what the pilots will say:

The AMEs will say:

less water damage to the prop and fewer cowling repairs.

[MUSICMAAN]

In my opinion, the 3 blade Mac belongs on the hangar ceiling with the rest of the ceiling fans, but I do have to say, one of our planes, which has the 3 blade, will run (fly) circles around any other Beaver at the base. I just don't get it, climbs like a bat out of hell, and has fast cruise too. Not at all expected.

[HS-748 2A]

Was just talking to a guy today who is having to make due with a short, round tip two blader hydro' for the season while his ag prop gets the 5 Year S.B. inspection. He's pretty choked about this thing. "Almost as bad as a 3-Blader; but those are really bad - barely take you to the scene of the crash.."

[Bulawrench]

Isn't the two blade 60 lbs heavier as well as lower TBO. 2000 hours on the hartzell 3 blade

[Beaver Driver]

I'm all for less weight, less vibration, and higher TBO (don't really care about noise), but if it doesn't get me over the trees at the end of the lake, then what's the point?

So what is the best prop to have then? Does the ag prop perform better than the long blade hamilton?

I've flown with the long blade, the 3 blade, and the hydromatic, but all on different airplanes with a bunch of different mods, but no direct compasrisons on the same airplane. I'm just worried about spending a bunch of $$$ and ending up with worse performance.

Thanks for all the responses.

[Castorero]

I struggled with this for a while, waiting for Hartzell to get their act together and put out a new big three blade.
In the end they decided that it wasn't worth it for them to redesign the hub to hold the larger blades from going their own way. Very disappointing, as the three blade is what it is.

Northwest Prop in Puyallup built a new 108" HS and they pretty much guaranteed that it would not have ANY vibration issues, like most of them do at low RPM.
The first iteration had a wicked vibration at 600-750 RPM that could not be lived with, so two new blades were exchanged and this prop has been excellent in every respect.
There are no weird vibrations at any RPM, and I would venture to say that this prop is as smooth as the 3-blade that came off, and that was pretty smooth. We tried to dynamically balance it, but it could not be improved upon from how it was already.

Performance is noticeable at any altitude on floats, and when all that metal catches up to the crankshaft, you can feel the pull and it almost gives you a wedgie.

The neighbors like the noise too, as it reminds them of the old days on the lake. Go figure.

I have been out of Vic and Van a few times on wheels and nobody has complained yet.

Definitely not going back to the very good 3-blade Hartzell that we changed three years ago and that is still hanging on the wall for insurance.

I think it's time to sell that now. If anyone needs it, it is in optimal condition.

I know of a couple of airplanes that tried the Ag blades for different reasons, and the results were disappointing, mostly because of the bad vibrations.

With the 108" HS being available NEW, there can be no other choice for performance, and...screw the noise!

[enbt]

So what is the best prop to have then? Does the ag prop perform better than the long blade hamilton?

I

In my experience the ag prop hauls ass off the water, and seems to climb and cruise faster too. I've flown two with that prop and they were both super performers. They shake like crazy though particularly around a certain range just above idle, 800-1000 rpm or so. Enough to wear things out, even if you keep it out of that range as much as possible.

On one plane they swapped the prop for a regular 2 blade and it turned into a regular beaver, although it was put on amphibs around the same time so it was hard to say if the decreased performance was from the prop or amphibs or a combination.

[MUSICMAAN]

The shorter of the two blade (the -18) is a really shitty seaplane prop. It's okay on wheels, and gives a faster cruise. The longer two blade (the -12) is a descent seaplane prop, gets out of the water quickly and good cruise speed. The round tip ag prop ( ag 400 I believe) is by far my personal favorite, it pulls hard and gets you out of the water fast, but does drop the cruise a bit.
The square tip ag prop (ag 200 I think) is well, to put it bluntly, a piece of shit. We're running one right now on one plane. I'll tell you, it does pull hard, but the damn thing is so thick, and so heavy, that it takes about 350 of the 450 horse power of the 985 just to spin it. When we got it back from the prop shop, all pretty and balanced, it was smooth as glass, but after a few filings, sure as shit, between 750 and 900 rpm, it'll rattle your brain. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Good luck to anyone finding any two blade prop now, from what I understand, the ag props are no longer in production, and we'll be stuck with the POS 3 blade.


MM

[Castorero]

Apparently Northwest prop in Puyallup are no longer building the 108" HS.

MT Propeller in Germany or Czech Republic have the contract with HS to produce these now, and that may be the place to go. Unfortunately the price for two blades sounds like it may be a lot more than it was a few years ago.

This is second hand information unfortunately, however, Dick at Northwest Propeller in Puyallup tel 253 770 7400 is the guy to talk to get the straight goods on this.
I haven't talked with him lately, and he also carried new Ag props, 100-1 and 200-2.

I cant say enough good things about the service and how well they stood behind their product until it was the way he said it would be, or should be.

[phillyfan]

All the mods in the world don't mean a thing if the tail ain't shimmed right.

[Lost Lake]

Isn't the two blade 60 lbs heavier as well as lower TBO. 2000 hours on the hartzell 3 blade

The Hydra is 2,400 hr tbo and performs way better and louder. Why fly a radial if you can't make noise too!!

[sportingrifle]

Something else to think about. The 3 bladed Hatzells are hard on crankshafts.

There is no TBO on an R-985 but there is an AD requiring the inspection and reworking of the crankshaft flyweight liners. The labor involved in this makes it a de-facto TBO. This AD is due at 1600 hours with the HS or 1200 with the 3 blade. Even if you only go to 1200 hours anyway, it is clear that the Hartzell is beating up the flyweight liners. At $8K for a crank, this makes the prop TBO kinda irrelevant.

Keep 'em flying,
sportingrifle.

[anydam]

Sorry to bring up old posts but this one got me thinking. Does anyone know of the status of the 2 blade prop? Are they still being manufactured anywhere, or is the only option for new beaver propellers the hartzell 3 blade?

[Beaver Driver]

I've herd they are available for $10,000 each.

[sportingrifle]

I was [picking up a prop at Maxwells in Crystal Mn. last year. Butch was building up 4 props with brand new -12 blades manufactured by Avia in Czeckoslovakia. List price was $11 000/blade but they sure looked nice.