C-185 Float Training

Durango skywagon · Post by **Durango skywagon** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:38 pm

I've been lurking here for a while and have a question for you all to ponder. I've got about 360 hours in my skywagon and 70 on floats. I have no interest in work but I want to develop the skills of a working 185 pilot on floats. My business has been good to me and I now have the time and a budget to devote to more training. I have looked at Georgian Bay Airways Career bushpilot program and a few others like it. Whaddya guys think? Is that a good option or what else should I look at? Something in that geographic area would be good, or in the N. Bay, Sudbury area, though I guess I'd travel anywhere if it was worth it.

Interested in your opinions.

moose_meat · Post by **moose_meat** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:08 pm

I don't know that any training program can give you the skills of a working 185 pilot. Not saying it can't be done but really, anything short of waking up every morning and flying to lakes you've never been to before, different docking situations (i.e. crappy dock, NO dock, beach, grassy river bed, etc.), different wind conditions, wx conditions etc. and any combination of the afore mentioned, I don't see how you could develop the same skills as someone that DOES wake up every morning and do it for a living.

One of the best things to do is to spend some time talking with other float pilots and see what they have to say (face to face, not on here!). Tell them about a situation you were in and what you did, they'll let you know in a heartbeat if you were right or wrong in how you handled it.

Nothing wrong with taking a 25 or 50 hour dual course to get some tips and tricks, but ultimately I believe practice and learning through experience on your own is the best way. Just never get over confident, be diligent and you'll have fun with it!

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Save your money, and fly your own plane more. You've got enough time in it now to have an idea of where the pitfalls might lie, so just start expanding the envelope slowly and cautiously...

Just One · Post by **Just One** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:29 pm

You don't necessarily need to go to a flight school or an instructor. There are plenty of experienced float pilots who would be happy to earn a few bucks showing what they know. Ask around and find someone with the right experience and attitude, and go flying.

Bushav8er · Post by **Bushav8er** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:51 am

If you want a 'school' - Sudbury A. They have been around for years operating in the north. What you may need is 'refinement' for hands & feet and 'tips' as you already know how to fly.

Chemtech · Post by **Chemtech** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:46 am

Lake Country Airways in Orillia has a 185 for rent

Nahanni · Post by **Nahanni** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:29 am

David Budd at Ocean Air, he's worked with other guys in your position who wanna fine tune the skills or be challenged in specific situation.

angry inch · Post by **angry inch** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:58 am

First you must do some "character building" by moving back into your mom's basement & getting your cpl. Once that is complete, head "north" where you can properly build a foundation for learning the "fine art" by performing various digging, washing, and other basic toiling tasks. You say you have a successful business... great! However, we're going to have to strip you of your sense of pride & accomplishment before we can rebuild you "from the ground up" in order to develop the skills of a working 185 pilot...

But seriously... as a couple others have already stated, find some experienced guys to learn a few things from & fly your own airplane more.

Heliian · Post by **Heliian** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:27 am

Sudbury Aviation on Whitewater lake in Azilda.

They've been in the business for a long time and have great people. They have a 185 on floats and a beaver and I think they might have a 172 or something on floats for training too. There is no substitute for professional training from people who do it everyday. Get the instruction and then use those lessons learned to enhance your skills on your own plane.

Have fun

Airspeed-Alive · Post by **Airspeed-Alive** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:03 pm

Heliian wrote:Sudbury Aviation on Whitewater lake in Azilda.

They've been in the business for a long time and have great people. They have a 185 on floats and a beaver and I think they might have a 172 or something on floats for training too. There is no substitute for professional training from people who do it everyday. Get the instruction and then use those lessons learned to enhance your skills on your own plane.

Have fun

x 3 for Sudbury Aviation. Marg has a great school and staff over that way. They run two 172's (150 hp). FQEH just got a nice new paint job, looks like a million bucks. Highly recommend!

nofate · Post by **nofate** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:02 pm

Airspeed-Alive wrote:
Heliian wrote:Sudbury Aviation on Whitewater lake in Azilda.

They've been in the business for a long time and have great people. They have a 185 on floats and a beaver and I think they might have a 172 or something on floats for training too. There is no substitute for professional training from people who do it everyday. Get the instruction and then use those lessons learned to enhance your skills on your own plane.

Have fun
x 3 for Sudbury Aviation. Marg has a great school and staff over that way. They run two 172's (150 hp). FQEH just got a nice new paint job, looks like a million bucks. Highly recommend!

Yup, I got my float rating there and they are great operation. Watch out for the cormorants and geese on Whitewater Lake. And don't let anyone see you land with your water rudders down or you will be buying a case of beer for someone.

tempo · Post by **tempo** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:18 pm

Stay away from Georgian Air....

I can go on but not into smear ...just better off anywhere but not there!

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:52 am

I am confused by some of the posts. If I understood the original post correctly you have your own plane. If that is correct, just get in her and fly around. Most commercial bush pilots got their experience by having to fly everyday, in all kinds of weather, and occasionaly in and out of new places. there is simply no substitute for getting out there and doing it at your stage.

If you have 70 hours now, you probably have learned how and what to look for, make a plan to get to the shore/dock etc. Experience is what you need, not instruction.

On the other hand, if you ar finding yourself getting surprised and scared with a few things, get an old experienced float/bush pilot with low testosterone levels to take a couple of trips with you and give some advice. You dont need the "hey watch this" type or the one that has less float experience than you do.

Enjoy,

sheephunter · Post by **sheephunter** » Tue May 03, 2011 6:24 am

Durango, is the ice out in your part of the world? If so, get in that 185 as many days a week as you can and start putting fuel through her. Try landing on every lake you see, find some stretches of river with current and land, taxi, sail... back, side to side and stationary. Taxi on step and around corners. Get back up in the air and pull the power and land. Try getting to shore in less than perfect conditions and get the aircraft secured as though you have to load or unload. Practice your procedures and know them well and just simply learn what your plane likes and doesn't like. Find some buddies that need loads flown into their camps or cottages or weekend beer runs. Just put the hours in and you'll be doing the same as doing a bush course. Especially if it has a low hour instructor. As others have said, the older high time guys are very well worth finding, so if a school has one, that would be worth the price of admission as then it isn't two of you flying around practicing. If you have time when you are up in the Eau Claire region, pop up and see me about another 200 miles NE or if you are around Huntsville give me a shout. There is fuel at CHL6 on Lake Vernon that's where I'm tied down.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:43 am

I agree with Sheephunter. Get proficient in your aircraft but I would also suggest finding a seasoned 185 pilot, throw him a few bucks to do a few hours with you. You may be picking up some bad habits and not even realizing it or at least he could pass along a few tips and some knowledge that you probably don't know.

I have probably flown over 50 different types on wheels, floats and skiis over the years and I still say the 185 is the hardest aircraft I have ever flown.

BGH · Post by **BGH** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:33 pm

Take your friends & family to places you've never been & treat them as customers.

Take them fishing to areas you've never been to.Tie up on shores,near trees & other challenging areas(without compromising safety).

My dad was my toughest customer when I first bought my aircraft,wanted to fly in everything,carry everything that fit in the 185 & wanted to bring all his friends.Never wanted to leave anything behind either.I think my first summer I did something like 10 -15 takeoffs & landings in an hour one day(no fish in this lake ,take me to the next one).He was also famous for - can you tie up over there(in the trees).

I learned real fast what was safe,how to do weight & balance & when not to carry to much fuel & most importantly to estimate fuel burn accurately & how much was on board.

Lastly was the why did you land way out here so landing close to the dock & coming off the step close to the parking area(within reason) came with the other skills.

Daryl

Castorero · Post by **Castorero** » Thu May 05, 2011 8:54 pm

CLguy wrote:I agree with Sheephunter. Get proficient in your aircraft but I would also suggest finding a seasoned 185 pilot, throw him a few bucks to do a few hours with you. You may be picking up some bad habits and not even realizing it or at least he could pass along a few tips and some knowledge that you probably don't know.

I have probably flown over 50 different types on wheels, floats and skiis over the years and I still safe the 185 is the hardest aircraft I have ever flown.

Worth emphasizing and repeating.

You may be flying around on your own for the next 300 hrs reinforcing the same bad habits or avoiding certain manouvers or places because they may make you uncomfortable and... may not even be aware of it.

An older experienced pilot who will tell it to you like it is without sugarcoating can provide just the right environment for you to push your limits without feeling that you might kill yourself, whether it be mountain flying or bad weather.
How bad is really bad weather?
How bad is bad turbulence? How much can this airplane really take?
Is that lake really too small to get out of?

You wont really know unless you fly with someone that has seen it all and can put it all in perspective for you.
I really believe that this route will help to morph you into the accomplished safe pilot that you can be and it will save your bacon on more than one occasion during your flying days. Otherwise you will forever be chipping around the edges of your flying envelope.

The 185 is a wonderful machine... lots of power on wheels and floats but much like a spirited stallion you never want to become complacent and think that you have it mastered, because that's when it will turn on you and bite you in the ass, on wheels anyway, no matter how many hrs you have under your belt or how gray your noggin.

sheephunter · Post by **sheephunter** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:51 pm

Agreed 100% with finding a high time float guy to fly with you or for that matter try to fly with any high time guy in anything any time you can.. It's like anything, just because you have always done it a certain way doesn't mean it's the correct way or moreso even a safe way. The problem is finding this guy. I have high time buddies that I will try to fly with every year or so and at the end they always have something to say about why I did something, how I didn't do something and not once were they wrong. Usually just small things you don't even realize you are doing that slowly becomes a habit. It's good to be scrutinized by someone that knows what they are talking about. And as far as young guys right out of school, hey they are up to date on everything new... great on the radio (i'm terrible), good with all the new toys and how all the gadgets work. Gets right down to it, I'll try to learn as much as I can from anyone willing. Whether they know anything or not and can teach me is for me to determine and yes, as soon as you think everything is going way too good, look out, somethings about to happen. Just remember to really look over the lake you are about to land in, your approach to the lake, your terrain getting out. Somedays you just can't land in a lake that you normally would or at least land but not get out. The more take offs and landins you can do the better. Good luck, have fun and be safe.

r22captain · Post by **r22captain** » Sat May 07, 2011 3:41 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6e3n1RY ... re=related

just remember the gear and you'll be good

DHCdriver · Post by **DHCdriver** » Sun May 08, 2011 8:56 pm

r22captain wrote:just remember the gear and you'll be good

Thats what checklists are for.

C-185 Float Training

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