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Oldfartus
 Post subject: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:52 am 
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Location: Orstraliya
Is there any call for an aircraft that could carry 1200 litres of bulk diesel? This machine would carry that load off a 400 metre strip. Certified single engine machine, cruise speed 105 knots loaded.


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SuperchargedRS
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:00 am 
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Sounds like a old airtractor or thrush (maybe a cat) with a hopper full of fuel. Guy did that up in AK for a while in the off season.


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Oldfartus
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:10 am 
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SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sounds like a old airtractor or thrush (maybe a cat)

Nup........a Fletcher, has two seats up front and room for two more behind the hopper.


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HS-748 2A
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:05 pm 
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No landing weight restriction on this airplane?

I know a guy who had both his AME lic and pilot's lic revoked for hauling fuel in an Ag Cat.

Overweight landings were the issue with T.C.

'48


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bigredone
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Fletcher(FU950 with L720) has been looked at several time for certification(FAA) outside of NZ and Aus starting in 1976/77. It has never caught the potential customers attention for several reasons. First off the spray pattern is awful probably due to the wing. Ferry speed is around 105kts so getting there is an ordeal. The Lycoming 720(400hp no turbo no gearing) is a bloody good engine but they stopped making cranks for them a while ago so parts are becoming a problem. Yes you can turbine it with Walter or Prat but that's a different animal. It would be a real money maker but on very specific runs and unless you had a multi year contract for just such a thing...I dont know.


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tractor driver
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Hmmmmm....
We carry 4000 litres in the 802, in 2 different hoppers, 1- 2700 litres, the other 1300. We can "split" the load, carrying 2 different products at once, allowing for the 1300 capacity close to what you're referring to, but very rarely do it as there doesn't seem to be much of a requirement in our neck of the woods. The occaisional time, but that's about it. Shortest strip we go into is 2400'.
g


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bigredone
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:47 am 
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...and the 802 is doing it 60kts(at least) faster. The Fletcher is a great worker, it has been since the 50s with a 225hp con and will be for years to come in all forms including re-engined to turbine, V8 or the highly evolved Cresco. It is just to specific. I know I know! Passengers in PNG, jumpers, and some survey machines, but AG work is its bread and butter.


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Oldfartus
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:46 am 
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I have to agree with you folks a Fletcher doesn't compare to an 802,

802
4000 litre load
Over 2 million set up for fuel hauling
You need a very expirenced pilot to fly it
To carry a full load you need at least 1200 metres (3,936') nil wind
150 knots ferry-320 litres an hour fuel flow. Is it over 12,500lb speed limited to under 145 knots?

Fletcher
1200 litre load
Under $200,00
Any bare commercial could fly it
After delivering fuel you could carry 3 pax plus pilot backloading
Can operate out of 400 metre (1312') airstrip full load
105 knots ferry-85 litres an hour fuel flow
For 10% of the price of an 802 you could carry 33% of the load

Completely different aircraft

I will disagree with Bigredone about the spray pattern, if properly set up a Fletcher's pattern is comparable with the likes of a Brave, there have been lots of hectares sprayed in Unzud with Flitchers. :mrgreen:


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tractor driver
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:23 am 
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Roger,

Not intending to compare aircraft at all. It's the load that you're talking about that doesn't seem to be in demand in our limited part of the little blue marble. Caravan's carry a similar load, 1400-ish depending on leg length, and have great versatality for other requirements as you're suggesting. Once we brought the tractors on line, the (small) load of the 208 seemed to get tossed aside for the more economical delivery of the 802. Your aircraft definately has a field length and initial cost advantage, not sure how that works out in litre / mile dollars, but there's a small market in the more remote north of Canada for small strips (easier to maintain) that's presently being serviced by Turbo Otters, mostly in barrels. Not the most piston engine friendly regime, but maybe a consideration? Always great to see attempts at better utilization of our industry. Hope you find a niche.
Cheers!
g


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Oldfartus
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:23 am 
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How many 8's are you running? Do you use them for fire work as well or just bulk liquid?


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tractor driver
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:07 am 
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3 802's dedicated to fuel hauling so far, no immediate requirement to convert them to fire suppression, although they are equiped to do so, and we are prepared to go there. Options to optimize the utilization of such an investment are always a good thing. Your machine seems good for a very limited market in the fuel haul enviroment, considering the history of the environment. The Tank-trailers we see are all 4000 - 8000 litre capable, the trucks we load are equal or more. The tanks are 50,000 litre +, so we're probably looking at totally different markets. Even the "small" operators we deal with, are capable of taking multiple trips from the 802 on any given day to accomodate their needs. Maybe a spot where the legs are short, and the delivery is not too time sensitive?
Other than that, if you're looking to fly fuel haulers give me a call, we're always looking for more pilot candidates as this seems to be a growth part of the industry.
Cheers!
g


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Oldfartus
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:37 am 
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There are a few Fletchers sitting around at the moment I thought there might be a use outside AG, just thinking outside the square really.
You have a pm on the other subject,
GG


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Redneck_pilot86
 Post subject: Re: Liquid freight?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:48 pm 
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Location: between 60 and 70
We're carrying around 1600L in a Caravan.


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