AVCANADA • View topic - Hardest float plane to fly??

View unanswered posts | View active topics

Board index » TOP AVIATION FORUMS » Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Who is chatting

Enter Chat

Hardest float plane to fly??

Moderators: bandaid, sky's the limit, ahramin, Sulako, just curious, weather, sepia, North Shore

Page 1 of 5

[ 106 posts ]

Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Print view

Previous topic | Next topic

Author

Message

Idriveplane

Post subject: Hardest float plane to fly??

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:13 pm

Rank 6

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Tree tops

Just wondering from the experienced guys, what is the hardest float plane to fly or master? Twin otter, norseman??

Just curious

Top

1000 HP

Post subject: Hardest to fly..

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:54 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 pm
Posts: 865
Location: South-East Asia

Havn't flown norseman or twin otter, but heres my short list: 172: docile, 180: better than a 185 with a dead battery, easy to hand start, tough to exit quick in emergency. 185: twitchy on floats, takes experience in x-wind, bitch to handstart (plan on having bleeding fingers and swearing alot),tough to exit quick if loaded cause seat will not slide back Beaver: real nice to handle, just about perfect in all respects, better in original configuration cause it is harder to load tailheavy that way, fairly easy to hand start, nice water handling, Otter: 1000 HP piston is great, big loads = lots of manual labor, hard to handle near docks and in X-winds cause of large tail. Nice to fuel. Still my favorite. Caravan Amphib: don't forget where your wheels are! Fueling on top of wing sucks, cabin too short both ways, but hauls a good load, easy to fly but doesn't like dirty wings..Customer like it cause of the speed and quiet engine. I'm still on the fence with this one....

That's it from me, can't offer an opinion on the rest.

Top

twotter

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:17 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:28 pm
Posts: 1441

First, the Twin Otter is the easiest floatplane to fly. The Nordyne is a bit of work but a nice airplane to fly. If you want one that can be a real handfull, try the Goose. That'll keep you busy especially when you're docking with wind and currents.

Top

zero 2

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:30 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:47 am
Posts: 53
Location: courtenay, bc

Let me get this right...the Beaver is fairly easy to hand start!!! What's the trick to it? I had a dead battery/alternator over the summer and tried my luck at hand propping just for kicks and giggles...not even a cough or sputter from the ole 985. Mentioned this to the engineer who arrived with the new battery and he looked at me like I had two heads, what gives?

Top

Brint

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:30 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:52 am
Posts: 139
Location: CYXY

It helps if you have some pax to work your mags and ropes.

First, spin the prop until you feel a bit of pressure, the compression stroke on one of the cylinders. You want to spin it through that stroke. Give a little extra prime and crack the throttle a little more than you would - just so it catches.

Get the "Yankee Doodle Dandy" to work the mags and get on the right side. Left hand on the cowling (so you don't fall in the lake) and right hand on the Prop. It may take a couple tries, but it should go.

Jump in, kick your assistant out, signal for the ropes and taxi away.

That worked for me, and it is quite satisfying the first time you get it going!

Any other tips out there?

Top

wasYKnowFJ

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:21 am

Rank 2

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:05 am
Posts: 85

zero 2 wrote:

Here's what I'd do:

Mags - Off

Prime - as you would for a normal start

(Stand on the right float, so that you are pulling the blade down, it's easier than from the left where you have to throw the blade up. Good time to practice moving away from the prop as you pull down)

Pull the prop through 2-3 full rotations (sucks the fuel into the cylinders), stop when the blade is horizontal and under compression.

Mags - on

Throttle - 1/4 inch

Pull the prop down as you move your body (and hand) back and away from the prop.

If it doesn't start first try, shut off mags before resetting the prop, then mags on and try again. I'd do that 5-6 times before priming again.

I figure you just want to prime and start it just as if the starter was working, except now you're the starter.

Good luck.

On the original topic... maybe one of these. Probably harder to dock than the goose.

Top

boozy

Post subject: HAND START ON THE BEAVER

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:16 am

Rank 3

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:37 pm
Posts: 140

Hey wasYKnowFJ, that's exactly what I do for a cold start (with no battery ofcourse). Works like a frickin charm. I havn't done a hot start by hand. But Im guessing you'd have to have throttle up quite a bit for it to kick over....and well...you'd be outside the airplane with a pisspott full of power on....not so good.

As for hardest planes to fly on floats....my experience is limited to Super Cubs, the cessna experience and the beaver. AND....its hard to say from those really. I actually had the hardest time with the beaver belive it or not....but once you got the hang of it...its a dream in every aspect. Stepping back into a cessna after the beaver, felt realllllly awkward. The cessnas are like cars that fly!!!

As for the super cub...well...I could fire off a few knuckle children thinking about that old girl. Just a wonderful plane. So much fun and unbelievably usefull inside its domain...I've been in some rough waters with one of those on CAP 2000's (wings almost rocking to the water) and she managed.

Anyway....most of the time I find its not the airplane itself (with its "controls") that make it hard to fly, but rather the situations you have to use the floatplane in. You can often find yourself in the "best single engine bushplane" in the world...staring at the farthest part of the lake and the gusting crosswind and your load (parents and kids) and wondering hmmmm....she should get up and over the trees...yeah...............(deep breath)...full power....

Top

bornagain1340

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:51 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:03 pm
Posts: 75
Location: here...for now

Never flown the polish 'swine' but the straight otter is still my favorite. haven't gotten my hands on a turbine version yet.
I wouldn't say that the Norseman is hard...it's still an airplane. Learn how to treat it right and it can be fun to fly. More to think about when loading it than a deHavilland. Just because you got off the water with a big load at 6am doesn't mean that you'll get off the water with the same load at 3 in the afternoon in July with no wind. Alot easier to taxi with a big wind than an otter. You definately learn how to get everything working in your favor when operating a Norseman.
I'd say the most skittish floatplane that I've flown is the buck 85.
Anyone have any input on the new "bush hawk?" To me it just seems like a fancy 206...oh yeah the Cessna 206 (fastest canoe on the lake).

Top

Idriveplane

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:16 pm

Rank 6

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Tree tops

I have time on both the 185 and new found. The found is harder to fly for sure. Tends to be become quite pitch sensitive with a load in the back. whereas the 185 you can throw whatever in the back and it'll fly nice. all things aside tho the found is quite impressive. You can legally carry 300 lbs more than a 206 and actually get off in a good distance, climbs very well once airborne, its fast, and 4 doors oh thats nice!

Top

CLguy

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:55 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:54 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: Reality!

Hardest float plane to fly?? Cessna 185

Top

c185

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:04 am

Rank 2

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:58 am
Posts: 71

What about the 206?
What makes the 185 so difficult?

Top

shimmydampner

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:24 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:59 pm
Posts: 1133

Idriveplane wrote:

the 185 you can throw whatever in the back and it'll fly nice

Speaking from experience I can say that's certainly not the case.

c185 wrote:

What about the 206?

In my limited experience with it, it's fine in the air, but it should never have been put on floats in the first place. Waterhog.

I've got piles of time on the 185 and I agree with bornagain and 1000hp, it's twitchy and skittish. A real squirrelly-bird, but fun as hell to fly.

Top

bronson

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:23 pm

Rank 4

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:56 pm
Posts: 217

I'll go with the Goose too...

Top

Siddley Hawker

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:25 pm

Rank 11

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:56 am
Posts: 3054
Location: 50.13N 66.17W

Cessna 182 & 1/2.

For the uninitiated, that's the early 185 with 260 HP on the 2870 floats. Jack Parnam at Northland Airways had three of the fuckers, RYO, RJH and RVC. All three had the left side stretcher door, where the whole side of the airplane opened up with allen wrenches, and you could slide a stretcher or propane tanks in. Great idea, but they were both underpowered and underfloated. Wheeler inherited them when they took over Northland, and Northern Wings got 'em when they took over Wheeler. Wings did the right thing and re-engined them with the 300 HP engine and installed the 2960 floats.

On the other hand, The Super Cub on the Edo 2000's and with the seaplane prop is downright fun to fly.

Top

Driving Rain

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:37 pm

Rank 10

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:10 am
Posts: 2561
Location: At a Tanker Base near you.

None of them are hard to fly some of them are harder on you.

NorDyne, Twin Beech and Otter drivers all complain of back ailments after a couple of years. :roll:

The C-180 is unforgiving of poor handling or bad decisions.

My first exposer to the Otter was frustrating compared to a Twin Beech's I'd been flying. After a couple of years I learned to love it though. The Beech was dream to water taxi with the Otter it took patience in any kind of wind. After a while it slowly revealed it's secrets.

Top

MUSKEG

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:36 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:49 pm
Posts: 732

My experience is with a amphib C-206. Shall I say at times I had the most expensive boat on the lake. I would consider it not a float plane but an aircrafty with floats, there is a huge difference.

Top

Cat Driver

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:30 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:31 am
Posts: 16643

The Goose with PT6's on it is easier to taxi, but a bitch to dock because of the zero thrust locks the fuc.in props just dont want to stop spinning.

And on the runway it really can get twitchy because of all that power.

Another drawback with the Turbo Goose is the poor sideways and foward visibility because of the long engine cowlings, especially in poor vis trying to turn.

All in all I found it to be the most demanding sea plane I ever flew.

Top

Handsome B. Wonderful

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:59 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:23 pm
Posts: 90
Location: YYZ

fougner wrote:

Grumman Goose. I have lots of respect for the boys up in Hardy.

I have to say the first time I saw someone fly and dock a Goose on a shitty windy day up north of Hardy was a humbling expereince for me...That thing isn't for everybody...'Specially in that environment.

Top

CaptainHaddock

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:17 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:22 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Wet coast

I've only flown C180/185/206 and DHC-2. The 180 was my first plane so I remember it through rose coloured glasses,it could do no wrong(but I sure could )I agree with the earlier posts about the 185 being twitchy, especially in gusty,lumpy conditions like Van harbour can be.
I've gotta say my least favorite was the 206 (two-O-piece of S%#t, or lead sled), most of the ones I flew were clapped out though in rough ocean conditions, probably not the life the boys in witchita designed them for.
And the Beaver is of course my favorite, it always made me look good, it has the ability to forgive mistakes. That said you do have to plan your climbs/escape routes in the sounds on the coast.
I also agree that the most difficult would be the goose though, lands fast, tendency to porpoise, and a then the hard part is docking it, I never flew it but I respect the guys who did.

Top

Dog

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:27 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:41 pm
Posts: 347
Location: next to the fire.

As much as I love the Goose I would have to say it is the least forgiving of the types I have flown. No two are the same so you have to fly them all a little different. The flaps are vacuum actuated so they never come down at the same speed (weight, engine thrust and aoa change it). It can porpoise so bad it will do structural damage. The landing gear system is from the industrial revolution so you hang a rabbit's foot off the compass and touch down as soft as you can (really it's quit strong but there are four gear boxes plus torque tubes, cables and chains working in secret to make it press alloy into runway). It is critical of c of g errors. The front window is always opaque do to salt spray from the previous takeoff and the engines block the view out the side. Turns in low vis are done using spider sense. Anyway, it would take a book to say all the ways it can kill you (or at least make you look like a incompetent). Everyone I know who flies it loves it so it's a kind of perverse relationship.

The 180/185 next as the landing speed is relatively high compared to the size of the float so it likes to dig/swerve unless you are predictive with the control input. That and the water drag curve quickly catches up to the takeoff thrust available if you are hot/heavy/high.

Top

Bubbaganoosh

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:03 am

Rank 3

Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:58 pm
Posts: 148

Twin Otter, absolute dream on floats. Not many floaters you can dock with a 25kt wind straight up the arse. Norseman - nasty, fastest thing on water, ok in ON I guess, but don't try one in the rocks. I would agree that the turbo goose would be one of the bigger handfuls single pilot, but at least it performs. Then again, a "boat" is not really a float plane, is it?

Top

oldtimer

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:56 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:04 am
Posts: 1857
Location: Calgary

I would say the Found FBA 2C (F%4cking Bastard Airplane) was a real bitch. No redeeming features at all. Another pig was the Howard DGA 15. Flying prostitute with those small wings (no visible means of support)
I have to agree with other posters, the 260 HP C185 was another lame duck. Flew CF-TZV out of Lynn Lake Mn.

Top

Page 1 of 5

[ 106 posts ]

Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Board index » TOP AVIATION FORUMS » Bush Flying & Specialty Air Service

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: