Twin Otter Ferry Flight

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Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#1 Post by caribotter » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:14 pm

Supposed to ferry an a/c with C Reg, but have never flown it on my canadian licence, and haven't used the licence for a while. I am however, licenced, current, and 'typed' but in a different country. Can I do the flight?
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#2 Post by PanEuropean » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:45 pm

As long as your Canadian Licence is valid (both medically, and you have met currency requirements), you can fly a Twin Otter if you hold a Commercial or higher licence with a multi-engine rating. There is no type rating for a Twin Otter in Canada, it is a 12,500 pound aircraft (11,566 pound if it is a very early production one), and this is just under the cut-off for requiring a type rating.

Hopefully I have not missed anything here, but if I did, I am sure my fellow forum members will point it out... :)

Michael
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#3 Post by caribotter » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:04 pm

Thanks for the quick reply.

Licence, check. Medical, Check. Currency, hmmm. Haven't flown a Canadian Reg plane for a few years, would that be a problem? could a flight in the otter with a current canadian pilot count?
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#4 Post by snoopy » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:35 pm

As long as you are not flying the aircraft commercially (ie just ferrying), it is recency requirements you most need to worry about:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#401_05

Recency Requirements

401.05(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Subpart, no holder of a flight crew permit, licence or rating, other than the holder of a flight engineer licence, shall exercise the privileges of the permit, licence or rating unless

(a) the holder has acted as pilot-in-command or co-pilot of an aircraft within the five years preceding the flight (if yes, stop reading this section and go to section 2); or (if no, keep reading this section)

(b) within the 12 months preceding the flight

(i) the holder has completed a flight review, in accordance with the personnel licensing standards, conducted by the holder of a flight instructor rating for the same category of aircraft,
(ii) the flight instructor who conducted the flight review has certified in the holder's personal log that the holder meets the skill requirements for the issuance of the permit or licence set out in the personnel licensing standards, and
(iii) the holder has successfully completed the appropriate examination specified in the personnel licensing standards.

AND

(2) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Subpart, no holder of a flight crew permit or licence, other than the holder of a flight engineer licence, shall exercise the privileges of the permit or licence in an aircraft unless the holder

(a) has successfully completed a recurrent training program in accordance with the personnel licensing standards within the 24 months preceding the flight;
(see waaaay below for the easy option to comply with this) and (If passengers not applicable skip to the next section...)

(b) where a passenger other than a flight test examiner designated by the Minister is carried on board the aircraft, has completed, within the six months preceding the flight,

(i) in the case of an aircraft other than a glider or a balloon, in the same category and class of aircraft as the aircraft, or in a Level B, C or D simulator of the same category and class as the aircraft, at least

(A) five night or day take-offs and five night or day landings, if the flight is conducted wholly by day, or

(B) five night take-offs and five night landings, if the flight is conducted wholly or partly by night,
....


AND (if IFR not applicable, skip to the next section...)

(3) No holder of an instrument rating shall exercise the privileges referred to in Section 401.47 unless the holder has

(a) within the 12 months preceding the flight, successfully completed an instrument rating flight test in an aircraft or in a Level B, C or D simulator of the same group as the aircraft;

(b) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, or in a Level B, C or D simulator of the same category as the aircraft or in a flight training device under the supervision of a person who holds the qualifications referred to in subsection 425.21(9) of the Personnel Licensing and Training Standards respecting Flight Training;
(amended 2012/02/19; previous version)

(c) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating; or
(amended 2001/03/01; previous version)

(d) successfully completed, for an aircraft, a pilot proficiency check whose validity period has not expired and which included the instrument procedures portion of (amended 2001/03/01; no previous version)

... (go to the reg if this needs to apply to you - link above)

_____________________________________________________
Before you despair...

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_05

(2) In order to comply with the requirements of 401.05(2)(a), any of the following are considered acceptable as recurrent training programs:

(a) completion of a flight review conducted by the holder of a flight instructor rating in the same category, shall include all items normally covered during the flight test for the issue of that permit or licence;

(b) attendance at a safety seminar conducted by Transport Canada Aviation;

(c) successful completion of a recurrent training program designed to update pilot knowledge, which could include subject areas such as human factors, meteorology, flight planning and navigation, and aviation regulations, rules and procedures that has been approved by the Minister as being satisfactory for those purposes;
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(d) completion of the self-paced study program produced annually in the Transport Canada Aviation Safety Newsletter, which is designed to update pilot knowledge in the subjects specified in (c) above. The completed copy shall be the most current published by date and shall be retained by the licence holder; (Easy Option - scroll to the last section)

(e) completion of a training program or Pilot Proficiency Check as required by Parts IV, VI or VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations;

(f) completion of the skill requirements for issue or renewal of a pilot permit, licence or rating, including night rating, VFR over-the-top rating, instrument rating, multi-engine class rating, flight instructor rating, landplane or seaplane rating; or
(amended 2000/09/01; previous version)

(g) completion of the written examination(s) for a permit, licence or rating.

__________________________________________________

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... t-2281.htm

Easy option located here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... y-4058.htm

__________________________________________________

Hope that all helps!

Cheers,
Kirsten B.
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#5 Post by PanEuropean » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:53 am

caribotter wrote:Currency, hmmm. Haven't flown a Canadian Registration plane for a few years
I'm not an authority on this stuff, so don't take what I have to say as Gospel, but I believe you can meet the currency requirements in ANY plane, it doesn't have to have a Canadian licence plate on it.

In other words, if you meet the currency requirements in a plane registered on the dark side of the moon, using your rare and valuable 'Dark Side of the Moon' pilot licence, Transport Canada will be very happy with that. What registration the plane has does not matter.

Michael
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#6 Post by Beefitarian » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:11 am

I'm sure pan's right here and it doesn't matter who's plane you're current on. I just spoke with someone at Transport and regarding recency I could fly a balloon and it's fine for my PPL. Give them a call and they won't even ask who you are.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... ns-139.htm
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#7 Post by PanEuropean » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:24 pm

Caribotter:

By the way, if you are planning to ferry a Twin Otter, do be sure to have the most recent revision of the AFM on board. For Series 300 (and variant, such as 310, 320) aircraft, this is revision 53, which was released last year. Revision 53 is a total re-write and total re-organization of the whole flight manual, it replaces every page in the old AFM. It also contains a section entitled "Aircraft and System Description" (section 7), which is the classroom training manual for the aircraft, replacing all of the old de Havilland service school manuals, and superceding the current release (Revision 4) of the FlightSafety training manual.

Maybe I'll see you along the way - I have to ferry a Twin Otter from Canada to Singapore, leaving in a couple of days. I posted a little story about my last ferry flight in this forum - to see it, click here. The flight I am making at the end of this week will be a little bit more ambitious - I have posted a route map below.

Michael

Around the world in 80 days... :?
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#8 Post by cdnpilot77 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:32 pm

Assuming good wx and mx, how long will that trip take Pan? Looks like a hell of a fun trip!
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#9 Post by PanEuropean » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:08 pm

In theory, 9 days. But, the plane does not have de-ice boots. So if the weather is lousy, it might take a bit longer.

Michael
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#10 Post by Beefitarian » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:23 pm

I totally want to do that trip. If I won enough money or something and could afford it. I'd fly from CYYC to the start of that route then on to London and back to CYYC.

How often have you gone across the Bering straight? Did you used to enjoy it?
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Re:

#11 Post by PanEuropean » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:37 am

Beefitarian wrote:I totally want to do that trip.
Yeah, right. Easy to say when you are at home behind the computer. Wait till you get stuck with a frosted-over aircraft in some little Siberian village that makes Attiwapiskat look like a resort town, it's -30 outside with strong winds, high noon and it's still dark out, and you have to de-ice the thing yourself while the rampies stand around and watch the show. :shock:

Michael

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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#12 Post by snoopy » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:00 pm

I'd still be all over it... that's what makes flying so fun! All the challenges... :wink:
Kirsten B.
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#13 Post by Beefitarian » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:46 pm

Snoopy has a point, being challenged can be good.

I totally forgot about the fact that it's going to be dark most of the time up there right now. Having to get the plane moved in the low temperatures and on a schedule will make for a pretty huge difference from just touring this route checking out the regions.

I suspect dealing with the weather is a lot of the work load. How far ahead do you need to apply for Visas and permits?
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#14 Post by PanEuropean » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:10 pm

Overflight permits are pretty easy, most are approved within 24 hours. Visas can be a problem. A Russian visa takes about 20 business days to get. I applied for mine on Dec 11, and it arrived by FedEx this morning, this because the Russians close up for both the Julian and Gregorian calendar Christmas holidays. If you just plan to make a fuel stop (3 hours or less) in Russia, you don't need a visa. But if you plan to overnight, you need a business visa (not tourist or transit). Heck, it will take us 3 days to get through Russia, and that is if the sun shines all the time.

Weather permitting, we will try and depart Saturday about noon hour. But, the weather in Victoria was so bad today that the Air Canada Jazz flight bringing the co-pilot to down missed and went back to Vancouver (not at all an auspicious start to a ferry flight)... and our first destination, Ketchikan, is supposed to get two feet of snow tonight... so, I guess we will see what happens. I stuffed the plane in the hangar this afternoon, at least it will be warm and dry when we leave.

My biggest concern is icing conditions. The plane does not have de-ice boots. At this time of the year, the clouds tend to stick to the plane if you go into them. So, I'll have to wait until the Victoria weather improves to at least VFR with broken (or fewer) clouds, to let me get up "on top", even though I will be filing IFR. I hope I don't have to go up so high that we need to breathe oxygen (that is never fun), but better to do that than to sit on the ground.

Once we get 'really' up north (beyond Anchorage), weather becomes less of a concern because it is typically very cold (-20° or less).

There is a massive low sitting off the coast of BC, perhaps we might get some help tomorrow from the upper winds.

Michael
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#15 Post by just curious » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:09 am

If fueling in Providenya, don't park too close to the terminal. When we were there, a slab off concrete came off and squashed an Mi8.
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#16 Post by Beefitarian » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:30 am

Don't get me wrong. I understand this takes plenty of skill and it's pretty obvious to me you do a lot of work to make these trips. I don't think it's just a matter of jumping in the plane like it's flight sim or something.

Have a good flight.

Edit: I just had a chance to read about the other trip, nicely done. Do you do any flight planning on paper or is it all electronic?
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#17 Post by PanEuropean » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:36 am

Beefitarian wrote:Do you do any flight planning on paper or is it all electronic?
Well - I first rough out a route using a shoelace overlaid on a globe (the shoelace does a terrific job of computing great circle routes, with no worries about map projections, computer display driver conflicts, or any of those kind of headaches), then I use Jeppesen FlightStar Corporate to do all the routing, performance planning, fuel, weight and balance, weather, FIR overviews, stuff like that. Kind of like the best of the old and new technologies, if you know what I mean. In case of any discrepancy between the two technologies, I usually put my faith in the shoelace.

Michael

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#18 Post by Beefitarian » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:02 am

That picture makes me need to ask something I was thinking about. Are the Aleutian islands lacking in decent facilities? I noticed even before the shoe lace they seemed more direct for your trip. I like your planned route a bit better myself though, because the water crossing is shorter. Granted most of the water up there may be solid this time of year but it's probably lumpy.
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#19 Post by PanEuropean » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 am

There are lots of facilities in the Aleutian Islands, but they are not a good place to be in the wintertime, especially if you are flying west. The Aleutian Low generally sits just north of the island chain, which means the winds are right on the nose. The climate is mild, and when you are in the south-east quadrant of a low with lots of moisture available from the sea, it is an ice machine. So, I elected to go north, and have the winds behind me most of the time.

Today, I flew from Victoria to Anchorage, about 1,250 miles. It took quite a while.

The Americans sure have strange altimeter settings - I can't remember seeing 28.55 very often before, normally the first number is a 29 or a 30. Pretty cold and windy here too.

Michael

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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#20 Post by Airtids » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:48 am

Have a great flight, Michael. And keep us posted- this medium is so much more enjoyable than mere Flightaware!! Also, tell B.A. I'm having a small chuckle at how big a shock to his "freshly returned from PV" system this first part of the trip must be!! Sorry, I have no restaurant recommendations for that route...

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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#21 Post by PanEuropean » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:21 pm

Well, not too much progress today. Got up and went out to the airport for a 10:00 AM departure, but there was a layer of cloud over the Anchorage airport, with bases at 4,000 feet. There were no PIREPs to let us know what the tops were, although the met office was pretty confident that the tops would not be higher than 10,000 feet. But, we don't have any de-ice boots on our plane, and don't want to take off and climb through a frozen cloud, lest parts of the cloud stick to our plane on the way up.

The terminal forecast called for the cloud layer to break up and go to scattered/broken around noon hour, so, we waited for that. However - the forecaster was not having one of his/her best days, and around noon hour, snow started to fall and the weather went down to 1 mile and about a 1,500 foot ceiling. Even worse, our destination, Anadyr (UHMA) was reporting 1,200 meters viz in fog. I have no experience with fog when it is -20 but I figure that would probably stick to the plane too. We then started to hope that maybe we might make it as far as Nome, and overnight at Nome. Nome was reporting CAVOK and the TAF called for it to remain clear.

Unfortunately, the snow continued to fall at Anchorage, so, at 2:00 in the afternoon, we gave up, stuffed the plane back into the hangar at the FBO, and headed back to the hotel. That action was all that was needed for the original forecast of scattered cloud to come true... at 4:00 in the afternoon, we were at the hotel downtown, watching sunshine coming through scattered cloud.

We'll try again tomorrow (Monday) morning to fly from PANC to UHMA.

One of the staff at the office gave me a little SPOT tracking device. This is a product sold to hikers and outdoor adventurers - it comes with a little fabric pouch and an elastic strap to allow the hiker to attach it to their arm (or gear leg). It has an associated web page that shows the location of the device. I am quite impressed with this thing, mostly because I no longer get 5 or 10 emails a day on my Blackberry saying "where are you?" - my co-workers, our dispatcher, and other interested parties can just go to the web page and see where the plane is. Finally, some peace and quiet while on ferry flights.

Michael

The SPOT device - looks sort of like one of those ankle bracelets that people under house arrest get.
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The track of the plane, as recorded by the SPOT device
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#22 Post by cdnpilot77 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:29 pm

Best thread hijack ever!!! Pan this is really interesting and I am sure there are more than a few jealous people out there....is there any way for us regular folk to see you progress realtime with the spot? BTW, what is the reason for strapping it to the gear and not just having it inside the airplane with you?
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#23 Post by Beefitarian » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:50 pm

I'm surprised you have not been using a Spot or Spot 2 before. I'm looking forward to hearing about Anadyr and crossing the straight. Have you been there before?
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#24 Post by PanEuropean » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:22 am

cdnpilot77 wrote: ...BTW, what is the reason for strapping it to the gear and not just having it inside the airplane with you?
Just to tease my co-worker, who gave me the device. We actually leave it on the instrument panel glareshield - the wind would probably blow it off if we went flying with it attached to the gear leg, as shown in the photo above. :mrgreen:

Michael
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Re: Twin Otter Ferry Flight

#25 Post by Brantford Beech Boy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:06 am

We do this every October from Calgary to the Philippines (albeit in a BE20). Would love to take the northern route but we have the ability to one hop from Shemya to Petropavlosk and then Sapporo, Japan...saves the visa paperwork....and then on the return we can go from Petro straight to Anchorage, gotta love those tailwinds!


Enjoy and have a safe trip!
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