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Float pilot and new boat regs?

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Airtids

Post subject: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:44 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 1595
Location: The Rock

Soooo... I was watching the CBC last night (I know :roll:

) and they ran a story about the new "Pleasure Craft Operator Card". As of Sept. 15th, 2009, all operators of boats with motors will need to have this card. In my other life, I masquerade as a guy with enough spare time to enjoy his boat with his family.

Now, I've been a boater since I was a teenager, and a float pilot since 1996. I went on the TC website (again, I know :roll:

) this morning to find out; a) if my floatplane priveleges exempted me (they don't appear to) and b) where I can go to write the exam to get a 'card'.

So, now I've got some questions: Will every float pilot be required to have one of these cards, and if not, why doesn't the PPL with a float endorsement count as a qualification? Seems to me I need to know everything a boater does, AND THEN SOME to operate my floatplane safely. But then again, maybe it's that attitude that will be beaten out of me in the course I'm supposed to take...

Last time I went through this idiocy was for the gun registry! Anyone else think this is crazy? Anyone written the exam/gotten 'the card'?

Advise?

Sheesh!!

Tids

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185_guy

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:51 pm

Rank 6

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:30 am
Posts: 406
Location: Where my skidoo broke down

You are not doing anything illegal untill you get caught!
It is sometimes easier to beg for forgiveness than to get permission!! (and fork out the retarded amount of $40 for the boater card)

I believe you can do the test online.............
I dont have it, and my guns remain unregistered. I've been hunting and fishing and had no grief from anyone. Living on the edge or what eh?!!!!!

But when (if) i get caught, I will probally wish i had done all this stupid stuff, cause it'll have cost way less than the fines!!

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Airtids

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:21 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 1595
Location: The Rock

$250 fine if found without the 'card'. I'm sure the boys will be at the wharf next weekend...

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nofate

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:37 am

Rank 2

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:41 am
Posts: 52
Location: Chapleau, ON

The boat licence course content includes a bunch of stuff not learned in the seaplane rating. Much of it is similar though. I got my boater card last year. Its pretty easy to pass, but if you never see channel markers you quickly forget how to read them.

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BGH

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:10 am

Rank 2

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:12 pm
Posts: 92

I was told by one of the people giving the boating test that an aircraft has it's own license system & floatplane pilots don't require the boating license when on the water.
I do agree that the boating test is quite easy & still wrote it for my dingy when fishing.

Daryl

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Conquest Driver

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:27 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:57 pm
Posts: 378

You don't need a POC (Pleasure Operators Card) to operate a floatplane. Section 2 (2)

Competency of Operators of Pleasure Craft Regulations
INTERPRETATION
1. The definitions in this section apply in these Regulations.

SOR/2002-18, s. 1; SOR/2007-124, s. 1, err., Vol. 141, No. 15.
APPLICATION
2. (1) These Regulations apply in respect of pleasure craft that are fitted with a motor and that are operated for recreational purposes in Canadian waters, other than the waters of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.
(2) These Regulations do not apply in respect of seaplanes.

As far as getting caught, I got "ramped" in a Kayak in Bedwell Harbour a couple of weeks ago. You don't need a POC in a Kayak or till Sept 15th. but I was checked for safety gear and I have no doubt that, had a POC been required, it would have been checked for.

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Airtids

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:50 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 1595
Location: The Rock

Thanks. Looks like I'm just gonna have to shell out the $45 and take the test to get the card. Baa-aaaa!

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snoopy

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:10 am

Rank 8

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:19 am
Posts: 988
Location: The Dog House

There are plenty of occasions where float pilots end up operating out of public waterways (your very rating allows you to do this) and for reasons of safety and self-preservation are required to have a knowledge of markers, buoys, and right of way on the water. Either float planes should not be exempt from the POC requirement, or float pilots should be exempt from the POC.

In my opinion...

Kirsten B.

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Airtids

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:44 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 1595
Location: The Rock

See Kirsten, I agree with you 100%. I'm very tempted to carry my license with me next weekend, and present it when I inevitably get ramped, and see what happens. Problem is, $45 to write the test is a whole lot less than it would cost to be a test case for this ridonkulous requirement! :roll:

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HuD 91gt

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:08 am

Rank 5

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:09 am
Posts: 341

There are quite a few things you will have not learnt with the Pleasure craft license over a float plane endorsement. Luckily you can write it online for about $60. I did mine at a boat show for free about 10 years ago (before it was mandatory for everyone). The catch then was you only needed to pay if you passed. I just squeezed by :p

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AEROBAT

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:45 am

Rank 7

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 553

A float endorsement seems redundant when you think that you can fly an advanced ultralight on floats without a float rating.

Next thing you know they will try to squeeze in a tail wheel rating like the FAA did.

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Cat Driver

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 2:40 pm
Posts: 10432
Location: CYSH

The only thing Canadians like more than big government is high taxes.

It's a real pity that Canadians never push back against idiocy like this.

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ruddersup?

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:43 am

Rank 3

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:10 am
Posts: 155

I'm the type that wants to fight this damn marine reg. I'd like to know what this test will do for safety? For chr..st sake lets have an operator's test for newbies and leave it at that. Not sure if civil rights are being violated here. After boating for 60 years, now I'm not qualified?Speeding and alcohol are what it's all about. There is a major problem with canoes and cold water that is not even being address. Around here canoes kill more than power boats. I could go on and on.

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:33 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1237
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

In my opinion, seaplane pilots should be required to have training in basic seamanship. It's frustrating enough to get a new copilot on the T.O. who has no boating skills of any kind, but some of the skippers I've met are equally bad. How hard is it to learn how to tie a decent knot, pretty f**kin' hard, apparently. And have you ever flown into a muddy river, like, I dunno, say the Mackenzie River for example, in a large-ish seaplane, and wondered where you might land and not hit rocks? Between or beside those floating red-and-green barrelly-looking things might be a good place, if only you knew what the heck the colours meant :roll:

Boaters should be licensed. I find most recreational powerboaters to be a menace. They do not heed wake restricions, right-of-way, lighting, safety, or any other regulations. Sailors tend to be better trained because sailboats actually require some skill to operate, but there are some ignorant pricks among them too.

I think I would draw the line at canoers and kayakers though. It's probably just a cash grab.

Last edited by Meatservo on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Airtids

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:33 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 1595
Location: The Rock

Meatservo wrote:

In my opinion, seaplane pilots should be required to have training in basic seamanship.

But that's just it: We are! Waaay back, when I did my rating, I definitely remember a session on marine law, right of way, marker buoys, etc. When we were teaching float ratings at High Alpine, we definitely taught the candidates everything they needed to know about operating as a boat. Certainly a hell of a lot more than the pathetic little study guide for this freakin' joke of a license/card! Floatplane pilots should be exempt!

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North Shore

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:37 pm

Rank Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:47 pm
Posts: 4193
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Meatservo, classic:

Quote:

And have you ever flown into a muddy river in a large-ish seaplane, like, I dunno, say the Mackenzie River for example,

Since when was the Mackenzie River a large-ish seaplane? :lol:

I do agree however; the confusion between cleats, ballards and bollards riles me no end, as does the inability of a large segment of the population to tie a bowline competently.

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:01 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1237
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

OK, Northy, whoever you are, there can be no higher calling than preserving our language by correcting poor grammar and spelling. I salute you.

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snoopy

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:14 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:19 am
Posts: 988
Location: The Dog House

Well, I agree Airtids, but as I said above, either floatplanes should not be exempt from the POC or floatplane pilots should be exempt (but then learning the information should then be a requirement of the rating). Either or. Years ago when I got my float endorsement, that stuff wasn't covered - wasn't needed for the area I was operating out of and wasn't required for the rating. Really, IMHO it should be required as part of the float endorsement, and then floatplane pilots should then be exempt, because with the present licensing structure there is a loophole: boating regs are not mandatory, yet float pilots are permitted to operate in public waterways. Incidentally, I had to look up marine regs and procedures of my own accord when I began operating out of areas that knowing this information was important to the safety of my ship.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

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ctmorawetz

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:09 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 77

I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.

We just bought a Husky on amphibs and we were wondering if (in Ontario) you require a Pleasure Card Operator's Card to operate a float plane on the water? From what I've read here and on the department of justice website (because Transport Canada doesn't have any info on it), it doesn't appear like you need one, but we would like to confirm this before we get out there. I have not been able to find anything on any Provincial websites so any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Blue skies!

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:24 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1237
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

ctmorawetz wrote:

No, you do not require a pleasure craft operator's card. Besides, if your aeroplane is registered commercially, it is not a "pleasure craft". I'm pretty sure the operator's card exists for two reasons: one, a source of money for the government, and two, something to take away from you if you're caught ripping around drunk. If you're drunk in your plane, you've got bigger worries than the boat cops.

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burhead1

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:27 am

Rank 7

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:30 am
Posts: 506
Location: kinda north

Airtids wrote:

Thanks. Looks like I'm just gonna have to shell out the $45 and take the test to get the card. Baa-aaaa!

Just put some little wings on your boat.

Did you get your card?

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mag check

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:13 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:24 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Drink in my hand, feet in the sand

Meatservo wrote:

ctmorawetz wrote:

Actually, the government doesn't make anything from the cards. The cards are purely a get rich scheme by a group of people that lobbied to have them implemented. They are free to set the price, and testing requirements to any level they wish. There is NO government involvement(aside from enforcement).
The card cannot be revoked or suspended at any time. Once it is issued, it is for life.

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Airtids

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:05 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 1595
Location: The Rock

burhead1 wrote:

Airtids wrote:

Thanks. Looks like I'm just gonna have to shell out the $45 and take the test to get the card. Baa-aaaa!

Just put some little wings on your boat.

Did you get your card?

Totally legal over here (and still as baffled at the burocracy!).

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Float pilot and new boat regs?

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:32 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1237
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

mag check wrote:

Meatservo wrote:

ctmorawetz wrote:

Well, that's even more disappointing. I will be sure not to get one, in that case. My boat doesn't have a motor anyway, so I can be as drunk as a lord the whole time I'm on the water, which is how I like it.

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