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Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:21 pm
by Moose47
G'day AP

You are correct. Not sure how I got the two mixed up.

Cheers...Chris

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:44 pm
by GA MX Trainer Dude
Here is a photo of the Barkley Grow wing structure - taken in 2007.


Image


Definitely not a simple 2 spar system!!

Mx

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:52 pm
by beech 18
June 05, 2014

Barkley Grow being unloaded in the Antarctic.
Aircraft involved with the U.S. Antarctic Service.

This aircraft may be on the USS Bear that was
sent to the Antarctic in 1939 - 1940.

Photo found on the web.
Unknown photographer.


Image

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:54 pm
by Antique Pilot
beech 18 wrote:June 05, 2014

Barkley Grow being unloaded in the Antarctic.
Aircraft involved with the U.S. Antarctic Service.

This aircraft may be on the USS Bear that was
sent to the Antarctic in 1939 - 1940.

Photo found on the web.
Unknown photographer.


Image
This would be Barkley Grow serial # 7 that was used by Admiral Byrd in his last Antarctic expedition.

AP

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:15 am
by Canuck Plumber
Hello all. New here. Big fan of the T8P-1. I found this pic on Ebay. Some fellow selling models of the Barkely Grow.
Image

A great aircraft.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:53 pm
by Canuck Plumber
If anyone's interested, I've started a Barkley Grow fan page over on Facebook.

Cheers.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:37 pm
by Canuck Plumber
Ok. I did some more digging. Pardon the redundancy of some of this as I noted parts have already been posted by others. I spoke with the curators at the Calgary Aerospace Museum, The Reynolds Museum, and the Edmonton Aircraft Museum. I'm amazed at what I've found so far. I can only imagine what I'll find tomorrow.

So for starters. Everyone assumes that there were 11 T8P-1s built. This is false. There were only 9 units built with the intent to build a tenth until the company had some financial troubles.

CF-BVE sat for years in Moose Jaw. A wing was removed to repair CF-BQM and the remainder was acquired by Harry Whereatt, Assiniboia.

OB-GGK went to Peru and nearly set a world distance record enroute to serve in the Peruvian airforce and was destroyed by a hanger fire in 1942

CF-BVL Crashed after takeoff in 1960 near Peace River. The fuselage was recovered by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary in 1982.

CF-BMG sank near Port Alberni. It was salvaged and scrapped in 1947

CF-BMV is currently sitting under a couple hundred feet of seawater somewhere near a fjord in Greenland. I spoke with a fellow today that said it's been found in remarkable condition but in too deep of water to salvage at this time. No idea of the coordinates.

CF-BMW Parts of might still be sitting near Nettley Manitoba. Some parts were attained by Harry Whereatt.

NC18470 was used in the Byrd expedition to the Antarctic. The salt water did a number on it and it was scrapped due to corrosion. A fellow at the Reynolds museum knows a fellow whos seen it. He said there's really nothing left of it. Noting no MSN number. CF-BVB?

CF-BQM sank near Norway House Manitoba and was salvaged by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary.

CF-BTX (as AP mentioned) crashed east of Grande Cash Alberta and in 1989 was removed by the Aerospace Museum of Calgary.

9 units. Thats it. My guess is that several severely damaged planes (including the CF-BTX) were used to build the three we have here in Alberta today. CF-BLV in is Edmonton, CF BQM is in Calgary, and CF-BVE is in Wetaskawin.

Its also worth noting that Vice Admiral Archibald S Barkley worked along side the Wright brothers which in my opinion places more importance on these underrated aircraft. This company has an amazing story to tell. I'm going to continue looking up more information on the aircraft and the company.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:17 am
by Antique Pilot
Canuck Plumber wrote:Ok. I did some more digging. Pardon the redundancy of some of this as I noted parts have already been posted by others. I spoke with the curators at the Calgary Aerospace Museum, The Reynolds Museum, and the Edmonton Aircraft Museum. I'm amazed at what I've found so far. I can only imagine what I'll find tomorrow.

So for starters. Everyone assumes that there were 11 T8P-1s built. This is false. There were only 9 units built with the intent to build a tenth until the company had some financial troubles.

CF-BVE sat for years in Moose Jaw. A wing was removed to repair CF-BQM and the remainder was acquired by Harry Whereatt, Assiniboia.

OB-GGK went to Peru and nearly set a world distance record enroute to serve in the Peruvian airforce and was destroyed by a hanger fire in 1942

CF-BVL Crashed after takeoff in 1960 near Peace River. The fuselage was recovered by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary in 1982.

CF-BMG sank near Port Alberni. It was salvaged and scrapped in 1947

CF-BMV is currently sitting under a couple hundred feet of seawater somewhere near a fjord in Greenland. I spoke with a fellow today that said it's been found in remarkable condition but in too deep of water to salvage at this time. No idea of the coordinates.

CF-BMW Parts of might still be sitting near Nettley Manitoba. Some parts were attained by Harry Whereatt.

NC18470 was used in the Byrd expedition to the Antarctic. The salt water did a number on it and it was scrapped due to corrosion. A fellow at the Reynolds museum knows a fellow whos seen it. He said there's really nothing left of it. Noting no MSN number. CF-BVB?

CF-BQM sank near Norway House Manitoba and was salvaged by the Aerospace Museum in Calgary.

CF-BTX (as AP mentioned) crashed east of Grande Cash Alberta and in 1989 was removed by the Aerospace Museum of Calgary.

9 units. Thats it. My guess is that several severely damaged planes (including the CF-BTX) were used to build the three we have here in Alberta today. CF-BLV in is Edmonton, CF BQM is in Calgary, and CF-BVE is in Wetaskawin.

Its also worth noting that Vice Admiral Archibald S Barkley worked along side the Wright brothers which in my opinion places more importance on these underrated aircraft. This company has an amazing story to tell. I'm going to continue looking up more information on the aircraft and the company.
Good research CP. Here is a list of the known serial #'s:

# 1: CF-BVE
# 2: OB-GGK to Peru
# 3: CF-BLV
# 4: CF-BMG
# 5 : CF-BMV
# 6: CF-BMW
# 7: NC18470 to Admiral Byrd
# 8: CF-BQM
# 9 ??
# 10 ??
# 11: CF-BTX

Quoting from Walter Henry's article in the CAHS Journal Vol 16, # 3, Fall 1978: "7 of the 11 produced saw service in Canada." I have read other references stating that 11 were produced. So why would they produce serial # 11 but not 9 and 10? I have other references stating that CF-BVB and CF-BLN were allocated to Barkley-Grows being imported to Canada but were "NTU" (not taken up).
Cheers, AP

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:22 am
by bmc
I have memories as a kid in the 60's driving up to St.Jerome north of Montreal and seeing a twin parked at an airstrip beside the road in a blue Belvedere paint scheme. Was that a Barkley?

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:47 pm
by Canuck Plumber
Thats what makes this such a great mystery. There are a ton of unanswered questions surrounding both the aircraft and the company.

I've been digging pretty deep starting with the beginning. The Barkley Grow Corp offices are listed in 1937 as being 13210 French Street Detroit Mi. In 1935 its listed as being
The Michigan Aircraft Company. Did they step in and buy out MAC to form a new company. Also, with Archibalds background and connection to the Wright brothers why werent these aircraft more noteable?

As for the two aircraft that were issued production numbers that are missing... I dont know. Cancelled orders?

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:48 pm
by Canuck Plumber
bmc wrote:I have memories as a kid in the 60's driving up to St.Jerome north of Montreal and seeing a twin parked at an airstrip beside the road in a blue Belvedere paint scheme. Was that a Barkley?

Is it the same as the picture posted earlier? If so, yes and it is part of the Calgary collection.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:09 pm
by Canuck Plumber
Ok, Ive been wracking my brain trying to figure out why there are two planes missing from the history books and why they would skip building production number 9 and 10.

I have a theory.

So your a couple of guys with some serious background in aviation and you hear that the government is looking to contract a manufacturer that can meet their criteria. Lockheed steps up to the plate. Their already a well established company by this time. Beechcraft steps up as well. Another well established company. Then along comes Archibald And Harold.

I don't know much about Harold but Archibald rubbed shoulders with the grand daddy's of aviation, Orville and Wilbur Wright. Not to mention a few other heavy hitters like Curtis Aircraft (et al). These guys had the experience but I doubt they had the same bank roll.

So you start this company to build these beautiful airliners. In order to be competitive you set the price point at around $37,000 to keep up with the competition, but because you're new to the manufacturing scene, your profit margins are razor thin. You set your sights to build 10 units. It's a nice round number. Why would you build 11 units when you don't have any orders. You build your prototype to show people what you can do. If they bought the Michigan Aircraft company, you already have everything laid out for you. You start punching out aircraft.

You start showing people your aircraft but your receiving luke warm approval and the orders aren't coming in. Lockheed won the contract and everyone likes the price point on the Beech better than your model. Problem is you've already committed to build ten units. Things are not working out in your favour.

You start building production number 9 and 10. CF-BVB is halfway complete and you've got a pile of parts ready to begin building production number 10. There's one small problem. You're out of money.

To save yourself and carry things over until AVCO bails your sorry ass out of a sling. You disassemble 9 and 10 and make the final T8P-1 to roll out of 13210 French Road by the Detroit City airport. CF-BTX.

Thoughts?

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:01 am
by beech 18
Sept 21, 2014

Canuck Plumber

Here is a link to an article about the Barkley Grow.
It was in the Dec 24, 1991 issue of Vintage Aircraft.

The story is on page 24 of the magazine.


http://issuu.com/vintageeaa/docs/va-vol ... dec-1991/1

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:18 am
by Canuck Plumber
Wow. Thanks Beech18. I've been looking for a shot of the factory. Brilliant. I wonder if the concrete pad just off of French Road is where the factory used to be.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:59 pm
by Canuck Plumber
Hey there,

This is meant for AP but worth sharing with everyone.

Image

It reads:

In Memory of Carl Brooks.
Big Game Guide and Outfitter.

On October 24, 1945, after takeoff from Kakwa Lake enroute to Lake Saskatoon with passengers,
Carl Brooks and four American big game hunters, CF-BTX was forced down by engine failure.

All survived except Carl.

Placed here by his sons
Richard, Cecil, Dennis, and Stanley.


This is located near Kakwa Lake. It's a three day hike in. Might hit it up in a couple years once my son gets a bit older. Since the sight is a memorial site, I hope people will respect the place if they go there.

Cheers.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that I'm going out find out that BTX is part of the aircraft in Edmonton.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:34 pm
by dogsbodymk1
This is at the Alberta Aviation Museum in Edmonton.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http:/ ... N6Hc4m_GZg


The pictures below were taken in 2012.

Image

Image


Chris

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:35 pm
by Rudder Bug
frozen solid wrote:That is a very unusual structure inside the wing... I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before. Is it some kind of Barnes-Wallace-inspired geodetic thing?
Amazing concept indeed!

RB

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:40 pm
by Rowdy
Why does it look to me like the central vertical stab is missing on the one in the museum!?

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:00 pm
by Canuck Plumber
Rowdy wrote:Why does it look to me like the central vertical stab is missing on the one in the museum!?
It's only on the aircraft when it's on floats.

Cheers.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:08 pm
by dogsbodymk1
Here's one on skis.

Image


Chris

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:56 pm
by Canuck Plumber
Great picture. Are you certain thats a Barkley Grow?

Cheers.

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:15 pm
by Antique Pilot
dogsbodymk1 wrote:Here's one on skis.

Image


Chris
That is a Lockheed 10A Electra, CF-BAF serial # 1064 registered to Canadian Airways in 1936. It went on to TCA in 1937. It eventually went to the USA but came back to Canada as CF-HED. It was written off after a precautionary landing in poor weather on Anticosti Island in October 1967.

AP

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:48 am
by dogsbodymk1
Sorry about that, gentlemen. You are right. I've had this in my files for years now and have forgotten to rename it. When I first found it in a long-gone forum, I had just gotten a computer and was just learning the ways of the Internet. When first seen, it was labelled as a Barkley-Grow but was afterwards identified as a Lockheed.

Please forgive.




Chris

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:20 am
by Antique Pilot
dogsbodymk1 wrote:Sorry about hat, gentlemen. You are right. I've had this in my files for years now and have forgotten to rename it. When I first found it in a long-gone forum, I had just gotten a computer and was just learning the ways of the Internet. When first seen, it was labelled as a Barkley-Grow but was afterwards identified as a Lockheed.

Please forgive.

Hey no problem, easy assumption to make. I just looked at a warbirds forum website: www.warbirdsforum.com.
It takes a bit of digging but there is a history of every Barkley Grow along with a few pics. There is the story about Jimmy Wade in CF-BMV going down off the coast of Greenland in 1942. The photo attached is of a Lockheed 10A. Probably CF-BAF with a different antenae setup.

AP


Chris

Re: Barkley-Grow

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:23 pm
by Rowdy
Canuck Plumber wrote:
Rowdy wrote:Why does it look to me like the central vertical stab is missing on the one in the museum!?
It's only on the aircraft when it's on floats.

Cheers.
Makes perfect sense now thank! I'd only ever seen the photos whilst on floats!