Interested in a Float Rating

[johnwa]

People from around Yellowknife who are interested in a float rating (7 hrs of training) can drop me a line. I consider training people. 300.00 per hour, firm. Email: johnwa@ssimicro.com

[. ._]

[water wings]

what type?

[brokenwing]

must be a beav for that price.....holy crap.

[Cat Driver]

Not necessarily, if he is a top notch teacher he is worth that.

Cat

[bogey]

with that attitude?

I wouldn't even "consider" it

[Cat Driver]

You all must remember that there are two seperate kinds of sea plane instructors, first are the normal puppy mill school types that teach the same few bits of knowledge they have over and over. Second is the high time bush pilot that has a very broad base of knowledge to teach the new sea plane pilot.

The former is not going to prepare you for the world of bush flying, where as the second type can.

Which is better paying $300.00 per hour to learn someting new every hour or paying $200.00 per hour to digest the same pablum over and over?

Cat

[goldeneagle_53]

I don't really explain this normally but it seems that the few that responded here never tried to purchase an aircraft and make it available to the benefit of others. 300.00 per hour- sounds lots (and maybe it is) but it is also the official and going rate in the North. Go fishing on the net and see if other private guys give you a 180 for next to nothing. I know I did have to pay for it - the very same rate and on my own aircraft! But what if the 300.00 include all accociated aircraft expenses, including fuel (1.40 per litre right now) and oil, insurance, maintenance. Docking fees in my town run up to 500.00 per month. Remember, the 300.00 are not all income but 80% expenses. Does it sound reasonable now? Do you want the float rating? A lot of people seem to forget that flight training has never been cheap and that a little bit of extra effort is part of getting the education and skill you want. I did it.

John

[Cat Driver]

$300.00 per hour dual on a Cessna 180 is more than fair...

How can you justify such a low rate?

Cat

[. ._]

Oh. I didn't know it was on a 180. I'm used to seeing 172, Cub etc. rates, and $300.00 sounded high. Yeah, that sounds about right now. More than I can afford at the moment, but about right.

-istp

[flyinhigh]

Outta curiosity, what is the going rate on a 172 floats these days?
I flew one right after I got my rating and was payin 160 an hour, was that high or average?

[Blakey]

$300/hr for a 180 on floats in Yellowknife? Are you kidding? Grab it!

I had to get my rating on a 180 for my insurance coverage and I was lucky enough to find one near me for $285/hr. This was in southern Ontario and this was a couple of years ago. I thought it was a bit steep until I got my rating and started operating my own airplane. I have non-commercial insurance rates and it costs me about $200/hr to operate. I can only echo Cat's question of "How can you operate that cheaply in a 180"? I suspect you don't have insurance to cover the student solo portion of the rating in which case you must have a modified pilot's door to get those big cohones of yours into the aircraft!

As far as "considering" students, I can understand this statement. I wouldn't take everybody who had $3000 either. Remember, at the end of the instruction you have to send this guy off solo in your 180. I'd chose those folks pretty carefully!

If you really think that $300/hr for float instruction in a 180 is too much, see if you can do better. I couldn't!

[justplanecrazy]

I guess it must be more expensive north:

But what if the 300.00 include all accociated aircraft expenses, including fuel (1.40 per litre right now) and oil, insurance, maintenance. Docking fees in my town run up to 500.00 per month. Remember, the 300.00 are not all income but 80% expenses.

So a C180 costs $240/hr to operate??? Even in the north this sounds like quite the inflated figure. I guess Air Hart pays the student $35/hr to rent their C180 then.

Air Hart:
C180 $205/$255 solo/dual

Courtenay Flight Center:
$290/$245

Southern Skies:
$255 dual

Ocean Air:
$235/$275

Parallel:
$285

I couldn't find a school that charged $300 for a c180. In my opinion spending $300/hr to get a 7 hour rating is stupid.

Find the cheapest operator you can and do your 7 hours to try and get an idea of what float flying is all about. Then find a good operator that has a smaller aircraft and get an advanced float course from them... ie. 15hrs. Then rent the aircraft solo until you have some confidence doing the manouvers taught in the advanced course. Then and only then would I open my wallet and get 2-3 hours in a C180 with an instructor that is worth that kind of money. He'll be able to teach you the tricks to improve on your mistakes and when he gives you some good info, you'll be able to take it in because you're somewhat comfortable flying floats and can listen to and understand what he's saying. Learning to fly on a smaller underpowered aircraft will show you the sweet spot, short field etc. way faster than an instructor trying to demonstrate it on an overpowered cadillac can.

That's just my opinion, take it for what its worth.

[Cat Driver]

"I couldn't find a school that charged $300 for a c180. In my opinion spending $300/hr to get a 7 hour rating is stupid. "

How many flight schools have instructors that really know the subject?

What is the charter rate for a Cessna 180?

If the charter rate is more, what does that tell you?

Cat

[Donald]

If the charter rate is more, what does that tell you?

Either the level of instruction is higher, or the operator is attempting a rip-off in a market with no other alternatives.

In the case of Mr. Wannecke above, well let's just say that the yellow 180 isn't all that busy around YZF these days and no one else is offering float ratings in town.

[justplanecrazy]

"I couldn't find a school that charged $300 for a c180. In my opinion spending $300/hr to get a 7 hour rating is stupid. "

How many flight schools have instructors that really know the subject?

What is the charter rate for a Cessna 180?

If the charter rate is more, what does that tell you?

Cat

Cat, I agree with you that a good instructor is really invaluable. What I am saying is that 7 hrs is just enough time to get your feet wet... maybe literally and the level of instruction isn't that important.

Why not go somewhere cheap and see if you like it first. After that go somewhere with a good instructor but a cheap (small) aircraft. Then when you have 50hrs or so and are a relatively competant pilot, then and only then spend the big money. Go for a few hours in the air on a bigger machine and spend some time doing some ground school to pick his brain. Up until then it's like giving a student pilot a ground school course on a 747.

[johnwa]

Hi Mr. Donalds,

The reason why the 180 is not that busy right now is because the plane is more out of town than in town while I am finishing up my AME ticket south of here in a few months. A 180 engine wants to be kept running, so what is better than offering private training on site to somebody who can use this for his next flying job right here in town? See you on the docks next year... Enjoy the summer!

[johnwa]

It is quite interesting to see how people respond. The thing is, 300.00 per hour is the GOING rate, meaning, if you want to get your float endorsement here in Yellowknife (where all the flying happens) then this is what is will cost a person. There is no rip-off and there is not much profit involved. The few that complain here seem wanting to go flying but not pay the bill. I do remember those days myself - that's why I eventually worked four (4) jobs and put money down on a plane. If anyone thinks about getting the float endorsement for commercial use - then do the math. 7 hours give you a rating. You need it before some other giving guy even lets you fly his (!) little floatplane so you can build up your 50 (+) hours for the insurance guys, without which you still don't get to have much fun. You could go to a flight school but my own experience is that you almost never end up with 7 hours but with more. Remember, those 7 hours are the minimum, not the standard and the instructors decide when the 7 hours are over. So why not doing it right, under real conditions, in the real bush, and on a real bush plane? Hope this helps.

[Dog]

[quote="Donald]
Either the level of instruction is higher, or the operator is attempting a rip-off in a market with no other alternatives.[quote]

Is there something wrong with making a profit? On the BC coast a 185 charters for $500 an hr. Besides doing circuits on a $50k engine is not really in it's best interest. Blow one cylinder and you just ate $1000 profit.

[Raybanman]

Having been lucky enough to be trained off the dock by the company I was working for at the time, I'd say that training by someone who has actually worked in the bush is invaluable. I don't know if this is the case here with Joshuwa's/Goldeneagle_35/flying278's situation. But if it is, then It sounds like an ok deal.