H2AD vs. E2D oil level

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LionelZRH
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H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by LionelZRH »

Hi there!

I am flying a C172 that was converted from a H2AD to an E2D engine. The C172N POH (originally with the H2AD) asks for 4 to 6 quarts oil while the C172M POH (originally with the E2D) asks for 6 to 8 quarts of oil.

Before the engine change we always flew at around 5 quarts but I am correct to assume that with the new engine we have to fly at not below 6 quarts? There is still the pilot rumour going that oil above 6 quarts will just "burn".

Anyone has experience on these two engines and a recommendation on the oil level to fly on the "new" E2D engine?

Any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Lionel
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AOW
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by AOW »

If I recall correctly, the H2AD had a max oil capacity of 6 qts, vs the E2D's max oil capacity of 8 qts. My experience with piston engines was that they usually would have a "natural" level above which any extra oil would just escape out the breather, and end up making a mess of the airplane's belly or landing gear. I certainly wouldn't suggest violating any flight manual limitations, but I think that you will find that the E2D engine will run just fine with 5 or 6 qts showing on the dipstick.
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ahramin
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by ahramin »

My aircraft has an E2D from a C172. I usually keep the oil between 4 and 5 quarts, up to 6 in the summer. Minimum is 2 quarts according to the Lycoming manual.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

The C172M has the E2D model installed and the POH states that the minimum oil level is 5 qts
Personally I would not fly this engine with less than this amount of oil. I have found that all engines are a little different with how much oil they like before they started just puking it out the breather, however I have never seen a O 320 with the 8 qt sump that was not happy with up to 6.5 qts. The last one I had experience with we added a qt when the level got to 5.5 and had no issue with loosing oil through the breather.

One point worth considering is that even heavily damaged engines will still run as long as they have oil, but internal damage usually results in rapid loss of oil so the more oil you have the longer the engine will run.

Not an exact comparison but I once lifted a cylinder on the radial engine in my Nanchang. It ran a bit rough but otherwise was fine but it puked out 5 litres of oil out of 15, in the less than 10 minutes it took me to get to a runway.
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Piston Power
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by Piston Power »

The physical engine oil cap should state the required capacity.
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2R
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by 2R »

The 2 quarts number comes from the maintenance manual . It is the minimum safe oil quantity .
That number is used to determine if an engine needs to be overhauled . If you have an oil leak and land and you still have two quarts it is safe to fix the leak and fill the oil back up . If you land with less than two quarts the engine is now considered unsafe and must be torn down for inspection .
The E2D relies on splash lubrication for the top of the engine , which is why it sometimes throws a little out the breather . They run best at on quart low , any less and you are not getting splash lubrication on the top of the.
engine and may get hot spots in the summer.
If you want to get 3000 hours out of the engine you should run them one quart low and fill them for long cross countries. The oil cleans off with a rag and varsol :)
The guy who rarely make TBO run them dry , it is possible to get 3000 hours and cheaper overhauls with lots of oil in them.
The Lycoming engine book has useful tips :)

If it sits for a long time consider a pre oiler and a small 40 w bulb in the engine compartment to prevent corrosion.
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hangarline
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by hangarline »

Run your E2D engine at 6 litres and add when it gets to 5. Anything less is criminal treatment of the engine. And if you run your engine at 2, then you will quickly learn how expensive overhauls are.
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ahramin
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by ahramin »

2R wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:35 pm
The E2D relies on splash lubrication for the top of the engine , which is why it sometimes throws a little out the breather. They run best at on quart low , any less and you are not getting splash lubrication on the top of the engine and may get hot spots in the summer.
2R and Hangarline, I don't understand. How does the oil quantity in the sump have any effect on how much oil is being splashed to the cam and pistons? As long as the oil pickup doesn't become unported, the amount of oil being pumped into the engine is the same regardless of how much oil is in the sump.
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photofly
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by photofly »

EDIT: Now that I've looked at various photographs of lycoming oil sumps, I see that the splash into the pistons is provided (I read) from oil dispersed from the rod bearings. So I guess it doesn't make much difference how much oil is on the sump, as long as the oil pickup to the pump isn't uncovered.
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2R
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by 2R »

The Textron Lycoming Flyer magazine is available in pdf format online.
If you own a Lycoming engine the magazine is full of great stuff .
Page 76 of the reprints speaks about oil ,
I think I left the original lycomining books in Red Lake
Also lost the Pratt and Whitney round engine book there, I liked that one it was once owned by Punch Dickens .
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ahramin
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by ahramin »

2R I have the Key General, Maintenance, and Operations reprints of the Flyer. I went through them again and did notice that they recommend keeping the oil level between 6 and 7 on the E2D, I'll have to think about increasing my oil quantity.

I couldn't find any mention of a reduction in the effectiveness of splash lubrication or formation of hot spots. Do you have a reference? Thank you.
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2R
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Re: H2AD vs. E2D oil level

Post by 2R »

Scraping my brains crap filter hard , might have sales reference from the pre -oiler stuff .
I am sure the splash lube is in the Lycoming stuff somewhere . I am too scared to Google lube , especially top end lubrication :)
If I find the book reference I will send it on .
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