Average cost for annual?

[yeager66]

Just wondering if the costs for annuals varies after a few years with the same AME? After they get to know the plane does the cost come down generally(barring any major snags)?

[SeptRepair]

Personally I charge the same flat rate every year for an annual with snags and parts extra. I never lower my rates slowly as I get to know the aircraft. My knowledge and expertise increase yearly as does the value of my time.

[Bede]

Personally I charge the same flat rate every year for an annual with snags and parts extra. I never lower my rates slowly as I get to know the aircraft. My knowledge and expertise increase yearly as does the value of my time.

Good for you. I have considered going with someone cheaper to do our maintenance, but no one can beat the knowledge our AME has.

[Heliian]

Good job Bede, we need more intelligent people like yourself in this industry. I'm sick and tired of all the low-balling and cost saving b.s. in this industry. Technically, prices should rise yearly with inflation and don't forget to add the HST plus the environmental fees and the airport tax and the admin fee and the......

[niss]

You're also sick and tired of pilots with 121.5 ELTs.

[iflyforpie]

I do a single-engine fixed-gear annual based on a minimum of 12 billable hours at $88/hr plus 5% consumables plus HST (we always charged both taxes on time previously). This includes the inspection, maintenance release, tech log update for one year, and AD search for the previous two years. Retractable gear adds another 2-4 hours depending on the aircraft.


Added on top is oil, filters, parts, shipping, and outside work, (the consumables covers grease, lube, top up fluids, small hardware, shop supplies, etc). Extra time of course for snags, AD searches, tech log updating etc.

I personally don't care what state the aircraft is in when it leaves, it is the owner's responsibility to make sure it is airworthy and cheap owners will get a statement in the release as to what is outstanding, unapproved, or should be replaced.

Payment before logbook release, no exceptions.

[qa guy]

well put pie!
Its important that we as AME's realize that we are not responsible for the condition of the aircraft, just the work we have been "authourized" to carry out. Thats why its very good practice to specify any snags that were deferred by the owner. That way the responsibility is on them.

[azimuthaviation]

I personally don't care what state the aircraft is in when it leaves, it is the owner's responsibility to make sure it is airworthy and cheap owners will get a statement in the release as to what is outstanding, unapproved, or should be replaced.

Why dont you complete them yourself and charge the customer?

[iflyforpie]

Why dont you complete them yourself and charge the customer?

Because I am not going to be stuck with outstanding invoices for parts bought and time billed when the customer refuses to pay his bill. Sure I am still holding the log book, but I would rather give the owner the choice rather than forcing it on them. As I said before and as the Regs explicitly say; the owner is responsible for maintaining his aircraft in an airworthy condition.




I will retract my statement about not caring about the condition of the customer's aircraft. I do care. I won't sign out an engine that is making metal, a cracked case, a cracked spar, or any number of serious airworthiness snags.

But to just go ahead and replace stuff, that's just wrong. Owner's are right to be leery of mechanics who 'overmaintain' aircraft and then charge them through the nose for it. This isn't Air Canada where if a screw doesn't look right you replace it. I've seen $30,000 annuals on single engine aircraft that didn't involve major engine work or structural repairs. Typically, it is helicopter or jet mechanics that do these type of annuals.

For big issues, I try my best to give the owner some leeway and as much advance notice as possible.

[azimuthaviation]

Dont you think you could be setting yourself with a more serious liabilty issue if something goes wrong where the owner can say someting like "he signed it off, as far as I was concerned it was fine"? My opinion is that if your signature is going on someting youre stating theres no outstanding defects requiring rectification. If the owner doesnt like it he can choose not to fly or he can go owner maintained but definitely not ask an AME to help him avoid what he needs to do.

[iflyforpie]

Azimuth, you aren't getting it.

IIRC, you are avionics. Let's say I tell you to install a COMM system on my 185 that is sitting in the hangar with no wings or engine on it. You install the box, the harness, the antenna, and the head unit, test the operation. You can now legally sign off that the system you installed is airworthy, even though the aircraft is far from it.

The same goes for annual inspections. This isn't a CC... whatever they used to call it where the AME would boldly have to say 'aircraft airworthy' and sign it out. This is just an inspection. I do all the items that are required by the manufacture's maintenance schedule and CAR 625 App. B and C, and report on what I find. That is all I need to do to sign a maintenance release.

Here are the regs....

Aircraft Maintenance - General

605.84 (1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), no person shall conduct a take-off or permit a take-off to be conducted in an aircraft that is in the legal custody and control of the person, other than an aircraft operated under a special certificate of airworthiness in the owner-maintenance or amateur-built classification, unless the aircraft
(amended 2002/03/01; previous version)

(a) is maintained in accordance with any airworthiness limitations applicable to the aircraft type design;
(amended 2002/03/01; previous version)

(b)meets the requirements of any airworthiness directive issued under section 521.427; and
(amended 2009/12/01; previous version)

(c) except as provided in subsection (2), meets the requirements of any notices that are equivalent to airworthiness directives and that are issued by
(amended 2002/03/01; previous version)..... BLAH BLAH BLAH....

605.06 No person shall conduct a take-off in an aircraft, or permit another person to conduct a take-off in an aircraft in their custody and control, unless the aircraft equipment required by these Regulations

(a) meets the applicable standards of airworthiness; and

(b) is serviceable and, where required by operational circumstances, functioning, except if otherwise provided in section 605.08, 605.09 or 605.10.

605.08 (1) Notwithstanding subsection (2) and sections 605.09 and 605.10, no person shall conduct a take-off in an aircraft that has equipment that is not serviceable or from which equipment has been removed if, in the opinion of the pilot-in-command, aviation safety is affected.

(2) Notwithstanding sections 605.09 and 605.10, a person may conduct a take-off in an aircraft that has equipment that is not serviceable or from which equipment has been removed where the aircraft is operated in accordance with the conditions of a flight permit that has been issued specifically for that purpose.

All we as AMEs are responsible for is signing out our work and covering our asses that we have made the owner aware of the status of the aircraft (writing in the journey log what is wrong). No liability issues whatsoever...

[Hedley]

I wish every private aircraft owner in Canada would read - and comprehend - this thread.

Too bad TC's "Aviation Safety Letter" couldn't reprint stuff from here.

[qa guy]

Thats right! Some guys still think that they are signing out at aircraft as serviceable meaning"fit and safe for flight"....not the case at all. Just be damn sure to specify what snags were "deferred by owner", and if its something that affects airworthiness, I would go further and mention that "the owner was made aware of the risks assiciated with not rectifying this defect".