Camgaurd

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ahramin
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Camgaurd

#1 Post by ahramin » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:28 pm

Camgaurd seems to be the only additive that everyone agrees actually makes a difference in engine health. At $30 an oil change, that comes to $1800 for 20 years worth of oil changes. I can buy 3 camshafts for that! Any thoughts for an aircraft that lives outside but flies every week?
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looproll
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Re: Camgaurd

#2 Post by looproll » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:06 pm

http://www.shell.com/global/products-se ... 0plus.html



Superior rust and corrosion protection giving that extra protection to engine parts that may be susceptible to extreme rusting when an aircraft is not in use.

AeroShell Oil W100 Plus and W 80 Plus
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Re: Camgaurd

#3 Post by ahramin » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:04 pm

That's what Shell says but ... oil analysis of engines haven't shown any reduction of wear metals for any special oils or additives with the exception of camgaurd.

What's the price difference between W80 and W80 plus anyway?
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Re: Camgaurd

#4 Post by GyvAir » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:31 am

ahramin wrote:I can buy 3 camshafts for that!
What would the cost of having those 3 camshafts installed be? Plus all the other worn parts that one spots when the engine is apart to install the cam.. :(
Honestly though, I think the same way when it comes to oil changes in my vehicles. I can't begin to justify the cost of synthetic oil changes, additives, fancy filters, etc., when I've never had an engine not outlast the car anyway. I doubt I'd get much of the difference back in increased gas mileage either.
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Re: Camgaurd

#5 Post by looproll » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:17 pm

$1 more per litre on aircraftspruce.com, but my local shell dealer gives it to me for the same price as the regular oil
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Re: Camgaurd

#6 Post by Taiser » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:38 pm

I use it. So do a lot of owners I know. It's actually tested and proven in scientific tests. My little Lycoming can use all the help it can get, one container lasts me 2 oil changes, which is basically one year... cheap insurance IMHO...


Mike Busch (EAA A&P Poo-Bah) :prayer: also swears by it and has the data to prove it works. He also goes into other additives that don't work or do anything like MMO...

Bit long, but his Webinar on Oil is great and he talks about Camguard on it. Dunno if you have to be an EAA member to watch this though...

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1149666747001
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Re: Camgaurd

#7 Post by Taiser » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:42 pm

ahramin wrote:That's what Shell says but ... oil analysis of engines haven't shown any reduction of wear metals for any special oils or additives with the exception of camgaurd.

What's the price difference between W80 and W80 plus anyway?
Dunno about the W80, I had bought a case of W100 from Spruce about 6 months ago (was ordering a bunch of other stuff as well) then bought a case of W100 plus here a few weeks ago (they didn't have any regular W100) and the 100 Plus was cheaper than the straight 100 by about 10 bucks (not including shipping)! :shock: I think the price difference is negligible at most places...
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Re: Camgaurd

#8 Post by ahramin » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:52 pm

Taiser what do you mean by one container lasts you 2 oil changes? Is there some way to buy camgaurd in bulk? I've only seen 1/2 quart bottles.
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Re: Camgaurd

#9 Post by Taiser » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:43 am

My engine runs on 5 quarts of oil! So a small bottle will last two changes. :smt040
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Re: Camgaurd

#10 Post by Spinner » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:16 am

Just fyi here is the difference between W80 and W80+ to the best of my knowledge quoted from the Shell global website.

"AeroShell Oil W100 Plus and W80 Plus already contain the Lycoming additive LW 16702 in the correct proportions and meets Lycoming requirements as well as the US Federal Aviation Authority Airworthiness directive 80-04-03".
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Re: Camgaurd

#11 Post by ahramin » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:02 am

Well smeg am I an idiot. Not only can you apparently buy it by the gallon (I'll let you guys know if I'm successful), now that I've read the instructions I see only 2/3 of a bottle would be the correct amount for my engine. So I've been using 50% too much.
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Re: Camgaurd

#12 Post by 5x5 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:08 pm

Flying every week seems fairly regular, so that's good. I'd save the money and pay for some electricity use in a good engine heater. The number 1 killer of engines (not making TBO and beyond) is cold starts, not elixirs in the oil. 3,000 hrs on Lycomings all the time but they get plugged in any time below +5 (plus engine covers below 0) and never started without at least 5 hours plugged in or in hangar.

Some may feel it's a bit anal, but simply no cold starts does it for us.
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Re: Camgaurd

#13 Post by ahramin » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:46 pm

I'm not convinced that cold starts is what is causing corroded camshafts. Plus I'm on the West Coast, so cold starts aren't an issue. Monthly mean temperature never gets below 5° and before a start on any day that the minimum went below 0° overnight I preheat for an hour. A heated hangar or 24 hour plug in would be nice but at the prices around here I'd rather just set fire to the aircraft and walk away.

So taking into account how much this plane sits outside in a moist environment, and that Camguard is the only additive that shows a reduction in wear metals on oil analysis (confirmed this one myself), and that I can reduce my costs on it 33% by putting the correct amount in, I think I'm going to stick with the Camguard.
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Re: Camgaurd

#14 Post by C-GKNT » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:31 pm

ahramin wrote:Camgaurd seems to be the only additive that everyone agrees actually makes a difference in engine health. At $30 an oil change, that comes to $1800 for 20 years worth of oil changes. I can buy 3 camshafts for that! Any thoughts for an aircraft that lives outside but flies every week?
I use Camguard but my flying is not consistent. For an aircraft flown regularly every week, I wouldn't bother.

Glenn
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Re: Camgaurd

#15 Post by 5x5 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:39 pm

ahramin, it's your money and certainly spend it as you like. And I'm not poking at you, but for the benefit of less knowledgeable folks reading this, 1 hour of preheat is possibly worse than none.

Right from Teledyne Continental (full bulletin) I realize this is not from Lycoming but certainly is in line with nearly any articles you'll find on the subject.
Failure to properly preheat a cold-soaked engine may result in oil congealing within the engine, oil hoses, and oil cooler with subsequent loss of oil flow, possible internal damage to the engine, and subsequent engine failure.
Superficial application of preheat to a cold soaked engine can cause damage to the engine. An inadequate application of preheat may warm the engine enough to permit starting but will not de-congeal oil in the sump, lines, cooler, filter, etc. Congealed oil in these areas will require considerable preheat. The engine may start and appear to run satisfactorily, but can be damaged from lack of lubrication due to the congealed oil blocking proper oil flow through the engine. The amount of damage will vary and may not become evident for many hours. However, the engine may be severely damaged and may fail shortly following application of high power. Proper procedures require thorough application of preheat to all parts of the engine. Hot air must be applied directly to the oil sump and external oil lines as well as the cylinders, air intake and oil cooler. Because excessively hot air can damage non-metallic components such as seals, hoses, and drives belts, do not attempt to hasten the preheat process.
The preferred method of preheating your engine is to place the aircraft in a heated hangar for a minimum of four hours prior to flight. Optional methods of preheating your aircraft engine are to use either a high volume combustion heater with ducts directed to the engine oil sump, cylinders and oil cooler or to install an engine mounted preheating system.
......and......
APPLICATION OF PREHEAT USING ENGINE MOUNTED PREHEATER SYSTEM:
WARNING
If a heated hangar is not available and the aircraft and engine have been exposed to temperatures below 20 degrees Fahrenheit / -7 degrees Centigrade and has an engine mounted preheating system the following procedure may be used.
Engine mounted preheating systems should include individual cylinder head heater thermocouples, oil sump heater pad and crankcase heater pad. The use of a nacelle blanket will increase the effectiveness of engine preheating.
1. Follow the specific instruction provided by the manufacturer of the preheating system for its operation.
2. Begin preheating of the engine at least 5 hours prior to expected departure. However, do not leave the engine preheating system in operation for more than 24 hours.
NOTE: The use of an approved thermal blanket or cover will help to reduce the effects of wind and cold air circulation when the aircraft is not hangered. Normally the manufacturer of the preheating system has thermal blankets available for purchase.
3. Start the engine immediately after completion of the preheating process. Since the engine will be warm, use the normal start procedure.
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Re: Camgaurd

#16 Post by ahramin » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:24 pm

A good point 5x5. Just looked up the TANIS system for Lycomings and it says 6 hours, but that is in order to get a 33°C rise in temperature. 1/3 of that increase and I'm laughing. Interesting that the Continental bulletin says 4 hours in a hangar is sufficient. I moved the oil pressure pickup to the front of the engine and have never seen a delay in getting oil pressure or a crazy high pressure after startup so I'm confident the engine is getting proper lubrication. In any case those recommendations are for colder temperatures than I have ever flown in out here but I'll be more careful of any sub zero temperature days in future.

You've got me wondering though. These 3000 hour Lycomings, are they parked outside and do they sit for more than a week without being flown?
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Re: Camgaurd

#17 Post by 5x5 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:18 am

Outside pretty much their entire lives. They do fly frequently and seldom, but occasionally, sit for more than a couple of days.

And we do, unfortunately, often see temperatures much below zero :smt022.
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Re: Camgaurd

#18 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:38 am

If you're flying all the time, I wouldn't bother with it.

If you're flying a little and than not flying for a while, I'd say it's worth it.

My personal plane (185 with a IO520D) gets flown on the weekends, or every other weekend, depending on how much I fly at work. The plane sits in a unheated hangar when she's not being flown, occasional she'll be beached in front of my house on the river for a overnight, I use 20W-50 X/C with camguard year round.

As for the preheat, it's not a "this or that" if it's very cold a pre heat is a good idea no matter what's in your oil sump. I've made up a engine preheater and a cabin heater from walmart and some ducting for cheap, works and is simple enough to just leave plugged in with it's little thermostat, or flick it on, run some errands and come back and fly.
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