Are AMEs really experts?

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Strega
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Are AMEs really experts?

#1 Post by Strega » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:10 pm

Welding was a tough one though, I took one class at SAIT about 15 years ago and that's it. Lots of scrap tubing with holes in it before I got the hang of it.
The above was posted by our resident AME expert...

I was thinking about it,, does it make sense, for an "AME" to do structural welding on an aircraft,, when welding is clearly not their forte? (I would highly doubt an apprentice welder that "took one class 15 yrs ago" would be cut loose to do some structural welding \, on, lets say a bridge or something, and then "certify" it as good because they "got the hang of it by burning up some scrap"


Seems rather unethical to me.... Thoughts?
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Rookie50
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#2 Post by Rookie50 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:38 pm

I suggest the very best response to this thread is none at all. Just don't play.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#3 Post by GyvAir » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:58 pm

Hopefully..

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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#4 Post by crazyaviator » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:12 pm

The welder is to be certified for welds on a certified aircraft. The AME can look at the weld and INSPECT the documentation from the welders work order,,,,, what more can be expected? If both inspections do not uncover irregularities, then the AME confirms the paperwork and a simple verification is in order. He need not be a welder. How does a captain verify a co-pilot is acceptable for the position he/she occupies for the flight ???
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#5 Post by Rookie50 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:14 pm

..
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Last edited by Rookie50 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#6 Post by Rookie50 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 pm

GyvAir wrote:Hopefully..

Image

....or a bigger boat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#7 Post by crazyaviator » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:18 pm

I bit the bait
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#8 Post by CpnCrunch » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:42 pm

What are all these multiple commas from Strega and crazyaviator? Is that some French thing?

And did that AME who charged Strega $4k for an oil change know about Strega's opinions on AMEs before he ripped him off?
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#9 Post by DonutHole » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:15 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:What are all these multiple commas from Strega and crazyaviator? Is that some French thing?

And did that AME who charged Strega $4k for an oil change know about Strega's opinions on AMEs before he ripped him off?
That straight up did not happen. Strega is full of the poo poo
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#10 Post by Heliian » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:57 am

Strega wrote: Thoughts?
None that our safe for this forum. Get a job and stop bothering the rest of us.
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#11 Post by PilotDAR » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:05 am

Yeah, I'll take the bait on this one, mainly because I'm not an AME, nor an expert! But at least we have a thread for the topic, whether useful or not, which is not hijacking someone else's thread!

So, "where and when"?
And did that AME who charged Strega $4k for an oil change
I have absolutely zero knowledge of this event. So I wonder if there's something else we don't know... Maybe where and when?

For my own recent experience, a client could not pass a required test for an approval to their aircraft, so I had to witness a second test attempt. The duration of the second test was 1.5 hours (and it was a pass, after their changes). But my invoice for my witnessing that retest exceeded $10,000. Oooo, Strega's getting ready to slam me for that. But, understand that to witness that test I had four whole days of travel, and $7,700 in airfare, to get to and from the test location. It turns out that they had inquired about hiring a King Air to fly me direct and wait for me, to save time, but that was quoted at more than $20,000. 'Interesting that there are no direct flights from North America to Greenland in September... But, I drift, or digress, or hijack, or whatever.... Did I rip off my client by charging my standard rate, and performing the requested task where and when they wanted it, on two days notice? They don't seem to think so, they thanked me happily, and paid my invoice promptly.

So, okay, a person who demonstrates the required skill set is issued an AME license. Does that make them an expert? Well, no more than the 16 year old, with the new driver's license should be driving a coach full of casino goers, or is expert at curling! Any expertise is gained with experience, and personal growth, and might be unrelated to the "official" qualifications. I can certainly think of Transport Canada inspectors who have audited or inspected my work over the decades, who demonstrated considerable expertise in a very useful and applicable skill, which was only peripherally related to what they were auditing. So there I am, getting audited by TC at no cost, and getting all this other excellent advice for free! How happy was I! I wrote it all down!

During a break from my training a very nice fellow in his new (to him) flying boat in BC yesterday, he asked me for my advice on a welder purchase. My first words were "I'm no expert at that", I have a stick welder, and oxy-acetelene set, but I hardly profess expertise in welding, nor selection of equipment. He hired me to train him in his aircraft - and I'm no expert at that either, I'm just good enough for the insurance company, and to grow his skills apparently much to his satisfaction. Oh, and he happily paid for my time and travel, and has invited me back to do more in the spring.

So if you have a maintenance task, and you ask an "AME", maybe you've got the right person, or maybe you have an AME who knows very little about it. Hopefully that AME is forthright about their skills, and you are paying attention to the factors which could affect your selection.

So to respect the OP's question, Being an AME does not make one a structural welding expert - being a trained welder in that realm of welding might. Being a very experienced aircraft structures welder would be even better! Choose the person most qualified for the task, even if you have to bring them in from afar for it. I know some excellent aircraft structural welders who are not AME's - so much the better! And, by the way, aircraft welding is specialized work, so it's an AMO you're looking for, rather than an AME to perform it.

So in all of that, I have presented nothing new, just the facts as they were before the question was asked. But, if you have an aircraft which has been issued a full C of A, what you have to do to keep that valid is very well described, and you will need a suitably rated AME to carry out, or at least supervise and inspect the work. They deserve to be fairly paid for their investment in their skills and qualifications, and time and overhead. If you don't agree, don't ask for their services. They did not get into the industry to provide charity aircraft maintenance services to frugal owners....

Bait taken.....
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#12 Post by torquey401 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:06 am

Very well written!
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#13 Post by Strega » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:20 am

The point of my original post was to show how "AMEs" who profess to be the only ones able to do work on aircraft.. actually are not the "experts" they may claim to be...

At the end of the day,, when welding on an aircraft, bridge, or whatever, first and foremost, you should be good at welding... This AME that posted the comments I copied above, seems to think because they "took a class" and "burned some holes in some tubing" qualifies them as a welder to do structural work.... Not Kosher if you asked me..

For the record,, I do have an AME M1 license...and I would never even begin to thing about doing welding on an aircraft! Perhaps the AME in question is indeed a superstar!
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#14 Post by Troubleshot » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:45 pm

Yeah well at my wife's employer Christmas party a Professional Mechanical Engineer was telling some other dude that is possible for a human to pass through a Jet engine and live...I didn't say anything, just had a chuckle.

My point is, there are meat-heads in every trade, every profession. Coming here to the maintenance forum with some sort of agenda and painting every AME with the same brush is childish.

keep swinging skippy.
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#15 Post by iflyforpie » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:12 pm

What does welding on an amateur built aircraft have to do with being an AME? Or any aircraft welding for that matter? Perhaps you should read up on some air regs and standards before making yourself look like an idiot?

Your lack of understanding of welding and how people get and stay proficient at it is equally abysmal.

Unethical... I don't think you know what that word means. But then, I'm not surprised. Unethical is what your employer or professional association would call your little tirades here....

PS: Sorry about Keystone XL. :goodman:
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#16 Post by Strega » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:46 am

What does welding on an amateur built aircraft have to do with being an AME? Or any aircraft welding for that matter? Perhaps you should read up on some air regs and standards before making yourself look like an idiot?
What qualifies you do do structural welding on an aircraft?

Your lack of understanding of welding and how people get and stay proficient at it is equally abysmal.
You are correct, Im not a welder,, but I know in my business, anything structural that needs to be welded, is not performed by someone who "took a class 15 yrs ago" and "burned some holes in some tubing"

Unethical... I don't think you know what that word means. But then, I'm not surprised. Unethical is what your employer or professional association would call your little tirades here....
Interesting........
PS: Sorry about Keystone XL. :goodman:
Not really sure what this has to do with anything.......
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#17 Post by Meecka » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:09 am

Please...
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Re: Are AMEs really experts?

#18 Post by Sulako » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:38 am

The title of this thread suggests a high potential for a furball.

Yep, there we go. Thread locked.
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